What I believe is really going on with Fisher

[ckparrothead]

But if Ireland were willing to become the GM of the Rams under Fisher why wouldn't he be willing to do that here? That doesn't make sense to me. Ireland's best shot to retain any oomph in the organization is to stay where at least he has champions in the hierarchy. Being upset with a loss of power and leaving to go somewhere else where he would have even less power would not be a rational act on his part.

It's classic game theory.

Ireland's got two doors he can walk down. He can cede control to Fisher. Or he can hold his ground. If he stands his ground, there are three potential results. 1) He might get fired. But if he gets fired, he might easily get re-hired by Fisher in St. Louis. Would he have full control in St. Louis? No. But he also wouldn't have full control in Miami. The only negative is moving his family from Miami to St. Louis, and that's a fairly negligible negative. 2) There's a chance that instead of getting fired, Steve Ross caves and the Dolphins end up with a Head Coach like Zimmer, and Ireland gets to maintain his authority. That's pretty much an unqualified win for Ireland. 3) Steve Ross may decide to sweeten the loss of control by giving Ireland more money, guarantees and/or job security. So in summary, if Ireland holds firm, there's a possible unqualified positive outcome (#2), a possible negative outcome of negligible significance (#1), and another possible positive outcome (#3).

Look at the other side, Steve Ross' side. If Jeff Ireland cedes control, game over...Ross wins. If he doesn't, then Ross has three choices. He could 1) Fire Ireland, which would result in losing Jeff Fisher AND Jeff Ireland. He could 2) Move on from Fisher and hire Mike Zimmer or someone like that. Or 3) He could try and sweeten the deal for Ireland, to where he keeps Ireland AND Fisher, but loses money.

You just follow the incentives. The incentives point to Steve Ross sweetening the deal for Jeff Ireland and essentially bribing him to give up his authority to Jeff Fisher.

If Fisher's play is to tell Ross, "look, I want Ireland's 'final say' and I want him to accept that and if he bolts then I walk" doesn't strike me as particularly logical, either. Couldn't he just force Ireland out the door and then get Ross to hire whoever he would have recommended to be hired were he to become coach of the Rams? Why would he assume he could get Jeff Ireland to work with him somewhere else?

Jeff Fisher WANTS Jeff Ireland scouting talent for him. He WANTS Miami's front office doing the legwork and scouting the talent because he likes Jeff Ireland and he thinks they're good at their jobs. But he doesn't want them having the authority over him, he wants the final say for himself. I really don't see how that's very far fetched at all. In fact, it's downright likely.

I don't think the fear is that if you lose Ireland you lose Fisher I just think that Ross has a great deal of loyalty and trust in Ireland and might be willing to chose him over Fisher. That's my worry, to be honest... that there's sort of a battered wife thing going on where no matter what awful horror Ireland wreaks upon Dolphinland Ross just keeps going back to him and defending him no matter what.

Trust me, Steve Ross knows that whatever happens, at this stage of the game, if he fires Jeff Ireland he loses Jeff Fisher.\

He might say to hell with both. He already lost Jim Harbaugh because of Jeff Ireland. If Ireland threatens and/or succeeds in losing him another of Steve's top choices, I bet Ireland is out the door.

 

[MD]

Thinking back to all the rumors and tweets of info, this makes perfect sense. Frustration has removed logic from my thoughts with all the speculation from different directions in the media. Thanks for restoring sanity CK.

Any thoughts on why the last couple of days we have not heard about any new interviews?

 

[dlockz]

Your post is contradictory. On the one hand you say that no one on this board really knows what happened with Saban in Miami and on the other hand claim to know that he didn't quit because he thought he was going to be fired. Make up your mind.

And anyway, this was Dave Hyde saying this, not me. I was merely relaying what he said.

Either way I was only talking about that because someone brought up Saban as an example of why "hunger" is important in a coach. The last thing this thread needs is to dissolve into a discussion of the utter irrelevancy known as Nick Saban.

I was saying we have no clue what happened but the afraid of firing makes no rational sense. he was in second year and there was no talk of his job being in jeopardy at that time. The only explanation that was ever given was he preferred coaching college football which probably is code for I love making like six million a year for 8 years over 5 million for 5 years. I seriously doubt he walked away from a contract with 15 million left on it because he was afraid of being fired.

 

[ckparrothead]

Thinking back to all the rumors and tweets of info, this makes perfect sense. Frustration has removed logic from my thoughts with all the speculation from different directions in the media. Thanks for restoring sanity CK.

Any thoughts on why the last couple of days we have not heard about any new interviews?

Pretty simple really. Here has been their schedule starting with the day they interviewed Bowles:

Monday: Todd Bowles Interview
Tuesday: Jeff Fisher Interview
Wednesday: Dave Toub Interview
Thursday: Nothing
Friday: Nothing
Saturday: Nothing
Sunday: Joe Philbin Interview
Monday: Nothing
Tuesday: Mike Zimmer Interview
Wednesday: Mike Mularkey Interview (canceled in the AM as Mularkey accepted Jacksonville HC job)
Thursday: Mitt Romney Fundraiser

It's as simple as that. They've remained steady throughout. There was a hole in the first week, Thursday, Friday and Saturday. I did some digging to find out if they had any mystery guests in during that time and I'm told no, and definitely not Chip Kelly. My thoughts are perhaps after interviewing Toub they were done with all candidates that were not currently in the playoffs, and they needed to wait until some teams get eliminated (Atlanta and Cincinnati, for instance) before they start scheduling more interviews.

There was another hole on Monday, but this smells to me like a day they spent circling back to Fisher after he was done with his Rams interview, clarifying theirs and his positions on several issues.

Otherwise they had Mike Zimmer in on Tuesday, were scheduled to have Mike Mularkey in on Wednesday but he canceled the morning of because he got the Jax job, and then Thursday was the Mitt Romney Fundraiser.

That, as they say, is that.

 

[flynryan15]

It's classic game theory.

Ireland's got two doors he can walk down. He can cede control to Fisher. Or he can hold his ground. If he stands his ground, there are three potential results. 1) He might get fired. But if he gets fired, he might easily get re-hired by Fisher in St. Louis. Would he have full control in St. Louis? No. But he also wouldn't have full control in Miami. The only negative is moving his family from Miami to St. Louis, and that's a fairly negligible negative. 2) There's a chance that instead of getting fired, Steve Ross caves and the Dolphins end up with a Head Coach like Zimmer, and Ireland gets to maintain his authority. That's pretty much an unqualified win for Ireland. 3) Steve Ross may decide to sweeten the loss of control by giving Ireland more money, guarantees and/or job security. So in summary, if Ireland holds firm, there's a possible unqualified positive outcome (#2), a possible negative outcome of negligible significance (#1), and another possible positive outcome (#3).

Look at the other side, Steve Ross' side. If Jeff Ireland cedes control, game over...Ross wins. If he doesn't, then Ross has three choices. He could 1) Fire Ireland, which would result in losing Jeff Fisher AND Jeff Ireland. He could 2) Move on from Fisher and hire Mike Zimmer or someone like that. Or 3) He could try and sweeten the deal for Ireland, to where he keeps Ireland AND Fisher, but loses money.

You just follow the incentives. The incentives point to Steve Ross sweetening the deal for Jeff Ireland and essentially bribing him to give up his authority to Jeff Fisher.



Jeff Fisher WANTS Jeff Ireland scouting talent for him. He WANTS Miami's front office doing the legwork and scouting the talent because he likes Jeff Ireland and he thinks they're good at their jobs. But he doesn't want them having the authority over him, he wants the final say for himself. I really don't see how that's very far fetched at all. In fact, it's downright likely.



Trust me, Steve Ross knows that whatever happens, at this stage of the game, if he fires Jeff Ireland he loses Jeff Fisher.\

He might say to hell with both. He already lost Jim Harbaugh because of Jeff Ireland. If Ireland threatens and/or succeeds in losing him another of Steve's top choices, I bet Ireland is out the door.

I would like to draw everyones attention to the last tid bit. " Ireland cost us Harbaugh"

No CK that cant be true they ireland faithful swear it was strictly geography!

 

[hoops]

i would accomodate fish also...this stuff about too much power is crap to me...anyways...if fish turns us down ck who do you think has the best shot at the job out of who we've interviewed??? zimmer???

 

[dlockz]

i would accomodate fish also...this stuff about too much power is crap to me...anyways...if fish turns us down ck who do you think has the best shot at the job out of who we've interviewed??? zimmer???

Know it was directed at Ck but my two cents are that Zimmer is the most qualified canidate for one and he has the dallas connection from both of them working there for quite a while. Irleand should know Zimmer and Bowles better than any of his other canidates. with everything that has went down I see Zimmer as our only other legitimate canidate at this time.

 

[quasi]

It's classic game theory.

Ireland's got two doors he can walk down. He can cede control to Fisher. Or he can hold his ground. If he stands his ground, there are three potential results. 1) He might get fired. But if he gets fired, he might easily get re-hired by Fisher in St. Louis. Would he have full control in St. Louis? No. But he also wouldn't have full control in Miami. The only negative is moving his family from Miami to St. Louis, and that's a fairly negligible negative. 2) There's a chance that instead of getting fired, Steve Ross caves and the Dolphins end up with a Head Coach like Zimmer, and Ireland gets to maintain his authority. That's pretty much an unqualified win for Ireland. 3) Steve Ross may decide to sweeten the loss of control by giving Ireland more money, guarantees and/or job security. So in summary, if Ireland holds firm, there's a possible unqualified positive outcome (#2), a possible negative outcome of negligible significance (#1), and another possible positive outcome (#3).

Look at the other side, Steve Ross' side. If Jeff Ireland cedes control, game over...Ross wins. If he doesn't, then Ross has three choices. He could 1) Fire Ireland, which would result in losing Jeff Fisher AND Jeff Ireland. He could 2) Move on from Fisher and hire Mike Zimmer or someone like that. Or 3) He could try and sweeten the deal for Ireland, to where he keeps Ireland AND Fisher, but loses money.

You just follow the incentives. The incentives point to Steve Ross sweetening the deal for Jeff Ireland and essentially bribing him to give up his authority to Jeff Fisher.



Jeff Fisher WANTS Jeff Ireland scouting talent for him. He WANTS Miami's front office doing the legwork and scouting the talent because he likes Jeff Ireland and he thinks they're good at their jobs. But he doesn't want them having the authority over him, he wants the final say for himself. I really don't see how that's very far fetched at all. In fact, it's downright likely.



Trust me, Steve Ross knows that whatever happens, at this stage of the game, if he fires Jeff Ireland he loses Jeff Fisher.\

He might say to hell with both. He already lost Jim Harbaugh because of Jeff Ireland. If Ireland threatens and/or succeeds in losing him another of Steve's top choices, I bet Ireland is out the door.

What? can you elaborate on this please?

 

[JerryD]

I speculated the same thing recently .... called it Tuna-Fisher v2.0

All these name coaches want all the power, & Fisher has seen Miami recently granted it & WITH the big bucks.... also speclated he'd ask for the same clause to receive ALL The Contract under special conditions, just like Tuna did.

I'm sure that's a big part ... who will give up the most power & money. All name coaches insist on it, & USUALLY GET IT.

 

[hoops]

if its true we lost harbaugh cause ireland was a must stay guy that doesn't surprise me...foolish...but not surprising...

 

[Lloyd Heilbrunn]

In short, Jeff Ireland.

Jeff Ireland is both a blessing and a curse, it appears.

He's a blessing in that Fisher really likes him and even would think about hiring him as his GM in St. Louis if that were a possibility.

But at the same time he's a curse because he CURRENTLY has the things written into his contract that Jeff Fisher wants written into his own contract.

Miami can't just take those things away from Fisher without his say-so. They'd have to fire him.

But oh, wait...Fisher LIKES Ireland. So if you fire Ireland then Fisher goes to the Rams and hires Jeff Ireland as his GM over there.

Tricky situation.

Or the "Fisher likes Ireland" is PR to make it more palatable for Ross to cut Ireland's power....

 

[ChambersWI]

It's classic game theory.

Ireland's got two doors he can walk down. He can cede control to Fisher. Or he can hold his ground. If he stands his ground, there are three potential results. 1) He might get fired. But if he gets fired, he might easily get re-hired by Fisher in St. Louis. Would he have full control in St. Louis? No. But he also wouldn't have full control in Miami. The only negative is moving his family from Miami to St. Louis, and that's a fairly negligible negative. 2) There's a chance that instead of getting fired, Steve Ross caves and the Dolphins end up with a Head Coach like Zimmer, and Ireland gets to maintain his authority. That's pretty much an unqualified win for Ireland. 3) Steve Ross may decide to sweeten the loss of control by giving Ireland more money, guarantees and/or job security. So in summary, if Ireland holds firm, there's a possible unqualified positive outcome (#2), a possible negative outcome of negligible significance (#1), and another possible positive outcome (#3).

Look at the other side, Steve Ross' side. If Jeff Ireland cedes control, game over...Ross wins. If he doesn't, then Ross has three choices. He could 1) Fire Ireland, which would result in losing Jeff Fisher AND Jeff Ireland. He could 2) Move on from Fisher and hire Mike Zimmer or someone like that. Or 3) He could try and sweeten the deal for Ireland, to where he keeps Ireland AND Fisher, but loses money.

You just follow the incentives. The incentives point to Steve Ross sweetening the deal for Jeff Ireland and essentially bribing him to give up his authority to Jeff Fisher.



Jeff Fisher WANTS Jeff Ireland scouting talent for him. He WANTS Miami's front office doing the legwork and scouting the talent because he likes Jeff Ireland and he thinks they're good at their jobs. But he doesn't want them having the authority over him, he wants the final say for himself. I really don't see how that's very far fetched at all. In fact, it's downright likely.



Trust me, Steve Ross knows that whatever happens, at this stage of the game, if he fires Jeff Ireland he loses Jeff Fisher.\

He might say to hell with both. He already lost Jim Harbaugh because of Jeff Ireland. If Ireland threatens and/or succeeds in losing him another of Steve's top choices, I bet Ireland is out the door.

OT I LOVE how I have been saying for 2 WEEKS how Fisher just doesn't want to be screwed over and people don't pay me a lick of attention, but CK says something and people take note. HAHA.

 

[dlockz]

if its true we lost harbaugh cause ireland was a must stay guy that doesn't surprise me...foolish...but not surprising...

I think overall it was dual botch. You dont try to hire a coach with one in place. Harbaugh does not strike me as a scumbag like Parcells..

 

[TheWalrus]

It's classic game theory.

Ireland's got two doors he can walk down. He can cede control to Fisher. Or he can hold his ground. If he stands his ground, there are three potential results. 1) He might get fired. But if he gets fired, he might easily get re-hired by Fisher in St. Louis. Would he have full control in St. Louis? No. But he also wouldn't have full control in Miami. The only negative is moving his family from Miami to St. Louis, and that's a fairly negligible negative. 2) There's a chance that instead of getting fired, Steve Ross caves and the Dolphins end up with a Head Coach like Zimmer, and Ireland gets to maintain his authority. That's pretty much an unqualified win for Ireland. 3) Steve Ross may decide to sweeten the loss of control by giving Ireland more money, guarantees and/or job security. So in summary, if Ireland holds firm, there's a possible unqualified positive outcome (#2), a possible negative outcome of negligible significance (#1), and another possible positive outcome (#3).

Ireland would have to presume, though, that Fisher would prefer him over all other GM choices to be sure of #1 being only a possible negative outcome of negligible significance. Fisher could very well just think Ireland competent enough to be on a list of "acceptable" GM candidates he might hire in St. Louis, meaning he likes the organizational structure here simply because he doesn't have to build it.

The problem with pinning this down is that none of us really know how highly Fisher thinks of Ireland. If he's communicated to Ross that he thinks Ireland is the best GM he could possibly find on the open market then your read on the situation is probably correct. But I haven't seen it anywhere where that's down in print, even as a rumor.

He might say to hell with both. He already lost Jim Harbaugh because of Jeff Ireland. If Ireland threatens and/or succeeds in losing him another of Steve's top choices, I bet Ireland is out the door.

Ireland has always struck me as a first class brown noser. I think he concedes, though Ross may very well give him a few pillowcases full of money to salve his bruised ego, as you say. I can only hope Ross has learned his lesson from the Harbaugh saga, but you never know. That's why I brought up the battered wife thing.

 

[MD]

I think "power" is being misconstrued. Seems to me that what Jeff is looking for is the ability to say no if the front office wants to push a guy on him that he doesn't feel is right. Sometimes I think fans may be reflecting back to the dictatorship under Saban and fear returning to those days. From everything I know about Fisher indicates that is not his personality.