What really happened at pick #19... | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

What really happened at pick #19...

Jimmy James said:
I hate this freaking "what did he give up?" argument. You guys can't have it both ways. Either accept that a 4th rounder would have probably been a guy with more potential than the 5th, 6th, and 7th rounders, or write those guys off right now just like you're writing off that 4th rounder.
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Absolutely, a 4th rounder has more "potential" than a 6th or 7th. However, in my opinion, if a 4th rounder was what was needed to get the only OT left on the board that would have an immediate impact on this team then it was worth it. I, for one, would have been really upset if we filled that hole with the "potential" of a 4th rounder instead of with a player we all know will probably start. That would have left us with this gigantic hole on the right side and having to fill it with whatever is discarded after the June 1 cuts.
 
Agreed Jimmy,

The fourth rounder was definitely vaulable. Those arguments are ridiculous.
 
That is a far more sensible argument. I don't agree with it, but I think it's a lot more intellectually honest than the "inconsequential 4th rounder" argument.
 
In Poker terms.......Minnesota bought a pot from Spielman.

My Guess is that Spielman's OL board looked like this:

1. Gallery
2. Shawn Andrews
3. Vernon Carey
4. CRAP
5. CRAP
6. CRAP
7. CRAP
8. CRAP

He probably said to himself that the top three where the only guys that could have upgraded us on the O-Line and he just could not take a chance that somebody was going to jump us.....The problem is that nobody was going to jump us for Carey....NE wanted D-Line and Dallas did not have enough picks to be spending them like that.....plus they needed a RB anyway.

Remember that Dallas's 4th round pick was worst than Miami's and New England' was better, so the dynamic of a trade was plausible but not realistic......

The only offer that could have been better than ours they were not going to take....NE would have taken Udeze from Minnesota....and if the next best offer was Dallas....then Minnesota would not have traded down knowing that NE would take their guy in front of them.........

It gets more obvious the more you analize it.
 
If Spielman were REALLY a player, he should have threatened to take Udeze if the Vikes traded the pick to the Pats for Carey. That wouldve showed em', eh? :lol:
 
If the Patsies did cause us to squeeze out an extra 4th rounder it back-fired on them. The Vikings ended up taking a very good RB with that pick. An RB that would have been a better fit for the Patsies than the dope smokin', often injured RB that the Pats selected in the 4th (Cedric Cobbs).

Mewelde Moore would have been a Patsie without the Vikings having that trade. In that sense, the trade was a good one.
 
I'm surprised this is even a debate. To me what happened is that the Vikings wanted Udeze however, they were also getting calls from teams such as Dallas, New England, and Miami. The only way they could be assured of getting Udeze was either to draft him at 19 or trade down one spot. It was common knowledge that the Fins would have traded down if Carey wasn't available. If they trade with New England or Dallas, Miami could just as easily have traded the 20 pick to a team who wanted to draft Udeze. The Vikings got the best of both worlds by trading down one spot, the only spot that assured them of getting their player, and receiving an extra draft pick.
 
Im not going to say that a 4th rounder could'nt have possibly been a good player, look at Zack Thomas,he was a 5th rounder, so who knows for sure. I do think though that Speilman took the "Safe " route in getting Carey, which is fine by me, better safe than sorry, as they say. At least by giving up the 4th rounder we got a guy we really liked, and also that from all I have seen from many articles is that he is a Great player who will probably start and help us alot in an O-line that desperatly has needed help. I would have loved to have had the 4th round pick, but on the Other hand, Speilman had stood pat and not moved up, and the Pats or someone else had moved to the spot and taken him? Again, maybe this would'nt have happenned, but I'm glad we did'nt find out for sure by taking that chance and possibly losing what looks to be a very good player. Just my thoughts guys.
 
dolphindan1970 said:
Im not going to say that a 4th rounder could'nt have possibly been a good player, look at Zack Thomas,he was a 5th rounder, so who knows for sure. I do think though that Speilman took the "Safe " route in getting Carey, which is fine by me, better safe than sorry, as they say. At least by giving up the 4th rounder we got a guy we really liked, and also that from all I have seen from many articles is that he is a Great player who will probably start and help us alot in an O-line that desperatly has needed help. I would have loved to have had the 4th round pick, but on the Other hand, Speilman had stood pat and not moved up, and the Pats or someone else had moved to the spot and taken him? Again, maybe this would'nt have happenned, but I'm glad we did'nt find out for sure by taking that chance and possibly losing what looks to be a very good player. Just my thoughts guys.
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My sentiments exactly...
 
But didn't Dallas PASS on a RB in the 1st when they had their choice of any RB in the draft??
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BOOM

There you have it. I don't understand why its so hard to believe for some people that the Patriots did indeed have Carey in their sights. So did the Cowboys. The "common knowledge" at the moment is that the Patriots coveted Vernon Carey and the Dolphins managed to get him by giving up a 4th rounder.

Listen. We have confirmed FROM THE VIKINGS that the Cowboys were on the phone trying to trade to #19. Why? Well lets see. Runningback? Gee uhh, they had the choice of any friggin runningback in the draft at #22 and what did they do? They traded down. So then SOMEONE drafted between #19 and #21 was their target. Could it have been Vince Wilfork. Yeah, it could. Could it have been Udeze? Sure, it could have. But I will say that while the boys have Greg Ellis and Marcellus Wiley at DE, and a solid DT situation starring La'Roi Glover, they have a little guy named Larry Allen raising a big stink demanding a trade not showing up to camps etc...their fans wanted Vernon Carey, and the Dolphins knew he was on their board. Also their current RT is named Kurt Vollers and when your RT is named Kurt Vollers you could use a RT named Vernon Carey.

So put New England aside...and Dallas was still a threat. With the Dolphins swearing to the Vikes that they will not trade the pick, that only increases the likelihood that the Vikes were being completely honest with us about who was on the phone with them.

So then do you honestly think New England was on the phone with them trying to get Wilfork or Udeze? Honestly the Patriots could have used either of them, and they also could have used Carey and they were indeed interested in him (Carey says they called him, kept him on hold). So if it was Wilfork they coveted, why trade up? The Vikes need a DE and Udeze was available, the Dolphins needed OL in a bad way and Carey was available, neither of them were going to take Wilfork! Why would New England try to trade up for HIM?

The biggest indication is watch what New England says about their picks. Someone is going to ask Belichick, and someone is going to ask Pioli...who did you try and trade up to #19 for? My guess, is they'll skirt the question or deny it. IF THEY DO THAT, it will be a CLEAR indication that Carey was the man they wanted. If they come right out and say that it was Wilfork they tried to trade up for, and if you BELIEVE them, then ok...Miami got hornswaggled by New England, but that still leaves Dallas as a possibility.

Nonetheless in the end all we had to give up in order to make absolutely certain we got our NEED position filled at an appropriate spot in the draft, was a 4th rounder...and thats worth it considering the risks.

Brzezinsky didn't "clip" anyone for a late rounder by lying. That kind of thing isn't done in the NFL its taboo and can find a way of coming back on you when you find yourself negotiating with other teams at any interval.
 
BTW, Parrot.......Jim Mandich said that the Fins were considering Udeze and Wilfork and at the time when we traded up.....Big O said that if we traded up one spot it was in no way for Vernon carey.......It had to be to take Udeze or Wilfork.......It is just a mystery.....

BTW, Belichick said that they were used as leverage and were not interested in Carey....Pioli said that he thought Miami was going to take Wilfork when they traded up.......

Dallas had Wilfork as a MUST take at their spot if he fell to them.......

So you see? The more we analyze it...the more confusing it gets......
 
The Patriots likely wanted Carey for two big reasons.
1 - We NEEDED him if we were going to upgrade our OL situation in any substantial way and Carey was the best OTY on the board
2- They also had him ranked high and were reprted to like him at 21 if he fell there. Given the way the draft went, they may have thought he had a good value at 19
 
I think in the end, we ended up with Carey, Poole,Pope and Pape and I didn't think that was posible. I would had hope that we could have gotten 2 of those but not all 4. Nothing matters not other than the fact that we got the players we got and I'm happy about the players we drafted. For sure I think it was a better draft than last year's.

Ozzy rules!!
 
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