What really happened at pick #19... | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

What really happened at pick #19...

ZOD said:
You are kinda having it both ways there aren't you?

I mean this is what Fat Len worships Pioli/Bellichek for isn't it. Drafting the "football players" that nobody seems to want because they don't amaze in workouts. I've read Fat Len's articles where he says that he thinks Dan Klecko will be a stud in New England before it's all said and done.
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How am I having it both ways??? I said Klecko was a good player just not for the NT position where the middle has to be immovable. There are plenty of players on the field that are good players but not as a NT.


It's also just a little convenient to label someone a "panic signing" to what most consider one of the best personnel men in the NFL.
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Did you read the quote??? Even the coaches said he would be servicable if his snaps were limited. NE signed a big body immediately no matter how good he was. If that's not a panic signing to try to fill a gaping hole IYO fine.

No matter how good anyone thinks Vince Wilfork is or will be, no player in the NFL will fill the void in the absence of Ted Washington. With that said it's a little "convenient" to compare Keith Traylor to big Ted. Seeing as Ted is now 36 I guess one could say that Traylor still has some years left at 34.
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Agreed. But that hole was so big they needed another good player to cover it up. :)
 
Bottom Line is RS got the guy he wanted and, quite frankly, absolutely needed. Maybe ha overpayed to get him but it is better than what COULD have happened which losing him completely. I think he did a good job of reloading in Day 2 to make up for losing the 4th rounder.
I think MOST of us can agree that Carey was the guy we HAD to have in the 1st round (after Andrews went to TB) and RS did what he thought he had to do to get him.
 
A) Carey had been linked to Dallas/NE in many mock drafts
B) Before the phins got on the phone with him Carey was on the phone with New England (stated via Carey). No where have I read about them being on the phone with Wilfork before the 18th/19th pick.
C) Miami has no need for a DT with Bowens/Chester/Zgonina. Bowens in the first year of a new 4 year contract and Chester still relatively young. I don't see a DT grooming pick till next year and even that might not be until the 3rd. No way does NE ever think we are going Wilfork.
D) DT's slid badly and there were still great potential starting DT's in the 3rd (Starks). Everybody knew we were hardcore about the OL as much as Minny was Udeze. If Minny knew we were hardcore about Carey you better damn well believe NE did unless you think NE has a dumber FO then Minny or Miami.
E) The argument about Dallas trading with Buffalo holds no water. We also turned down the Buffalo proposal to get Carey.
F) Dallas states after the first day ends that they are no longer taking trade offers on Larry Allen.
G) Wilfork states the only contact he had with NE was 15 minutes at the Combine.
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There you have a perfect lists of the FACTS in this case. Its certainly a lot of reasons to think we could have lost Carey had we sat on our haunches.

You know it reminds me of last year when Pisa Tinoisamoa dropped to within 4 picks of us, and the Dolphins ended up "settling" for Eddie Moore. My argument there was that hey, we knew that St Louis needed a LB and they were interested in Pisa. He was by far way better than the other scrubs that ended up going in the LB run in the 2nd round (Victor Hobson, Eddie Moore, Chaun Thompson, etc). I think Spielman liked him a lot...I'm sure Dave did too. But after we lost out on all our bids to move up into the first round to claim Foster, Harris, or Steinbach, a frustrated Dave made the decision to put the phones down and let the draft come to us. I believe that was a mistake, because we could see that Pisa was falling and he was bound to get drafted by St Louis at #44 or #45. We should have moved up, if that was the position we were going with (LB). I think Spielman probably didn't push the issue because he liked Anquan and was probably lobbying to get him over a LB. I think its a similar situation with Carey. At #19 all of the other elite OTs are off the board, and you have a total of 3 teams that could use Carey, all either already at #19 or actively trying to trade up to #19 (Vikes, Cowboys, Patriots). One of those teams you know from the player himself, has already been on the phone with Carey. Another team has a bad problem with their star offensive lineman, and they coveted Carey.

Knowing what they knew, Spielman made the right choice. Go out and get your player, don't let the draft come to you and risk losing out completely. Last offseason we took gambles that cost us a championship run. You don't want to do that again.
 
you know that why? God I love how people on this board know WAY MORe than anyone actually in the NFL.
 
rickeyrunsover said:
you know that why? God I love how people on this board know WAY MORe than anyone actually in the NFL.
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I love how people on this board drag out the tiredest and least logical attacks available.
 
Yeah Ck I agree with your post. That is my point exactly. Maybe the pats didnt call and wanted wilfork, but Dallas needed a rb so they would not have called, Yet they didnt take rb? Would the pats have taken Carey if he was there? They did lose a coupl o-lineman including an all-pro guard. The article form Minn doies not show a sting to me, it shows that Minn got an extra pick theyd esired while getting a player they coveted and Miami was teh safest becuase they knew DE was not a need. Now maybe Pats and Dallas were getting up for someone other than Carey, but Rick was aggressive in assuring we got the player he coveted.
 
From Ask Alex:

Q: What really happened between the Dolphins and Vikings on Draft Day? Any truth to the reports that the Vikings pulled a fast one by lying to the Dolphins about the Patriots being interested in Vernon Carey? Can you believe a team would do that? Barry Weinberg, Fort Pierce, FL

A: I believe teams bluff all the time on draft day. But in this case, I don't think the Vikings were lying. New England was on the telephone with Carey before the pick was made. Plus, the Dolphins didn't want to risk losing him to a division rival. Actually, several teams reportedly called the Vikings in hopes of moving to the No. 19 spot. Along with New England, Seattle and Dallas inquired. The Dolphins -- which coveted Carey -- offered the safest bet for the Vikings and the only choice that ensured USC defensive end Kenechi Uddeze's availability. According to the Minneapolis Star-Tribune, Vikings vice president of football operations Rob Brzezinski, who worked in the Dolphins' front office for six years before joining the Vikings in 1999, demanded that Rick Spielman not trade the pick. Spielman agreed and the deal, which sent the Dolphins' fourth-round pick to the Vikings in exchange for moving up one spot, was finalized. Brzezinski told the Star-Tribune he probably would not have have agreed to such a deal with any other team, and coach Mike Tice added: "They gave us their word . . . and then and only then were we comfortable making the trade." The Vikings were afraid of the Dolphins trading the No. 19 pick to a team that wanted Udeze, who filled one of their most critical positions.
 
Aint attacking clearly stating the obvious. Several sources say 3 teams were looking to move up to 19, yet some of you say no way and they are wrong or are lying. (Implied) You believe the negative and say so. It is an old argument becuase the subject for which it was started for is still in place. That is teh know-it-all attitude. Did we overpay? possible, but cannot be proven conclusively at this point and more reasonable than not is No we didnt. Read the above post where NE had been linked to Carey or teh reported almost deal between Detroit and Dallas for Allen, yet canceled by teh end of teh first. Both teams reportedly interested in moving up. So when everyone else is wrong and you are right, ....well hence the argument.
 
Den54,

Thanks for posting this. I think it is a fair summary of what happened.

What I see here is that there was interest in trading up and that it may have been for Carey instead of for Udeze or Wilfork. I also see the Vikings being unwilling to do anything that would result in them not getting their DE. I think this supports both conculsions that if RS wanted to be sure he got Carey, he had to trade the pick and that RS could have not traded the pick and probably still get Carey.

That 4th rounder represented the cost of certainty to RS, and he made the call to be certain. A 4th rounder is important, but it was apparently important enough to RS that he get that one guy that he made the call. I don't like the move, but I understand it because RS was drafting from a need perspective.
 
I roundly reject the argument that we are not entitled to an opinion about what happened because we're not in the NFL. I'm glad that I provoked you to say more because your expanded argument is actually sensible.
 
LMAO BPA, yes BPA at all cots no. Ok so we have a huge need on o-lineno need on d-line, esp if Ogun resigns which we own his rights so he aint goin nowhere. But let say that Wilfork is considered a better player, not dramatically better like a projected 1st rder going in 4th rd better, but maybe a #16 proj pick going at #20 PICK VS A PROJ #20 PICK GOING #20 better. Clearly Wilfork is considered slightly better, but Carey still is a ten year impact player. So you take the BPA wilfork and great your Dt pos is set for 10 years, even tho it was set, maybe not for 10 years but was set nonetheless, and your o-line till suks and you missed out on a 10 year player that could have started right away for a player to sit on the bench. Makes alot of sense.
 
I agree you have right to your opinion not stating you dont. What I am getting at is you post that you say we got taken in the face of an opinion based on reported events w/o saying why you believ those reports are wrong. It is like you are saying"well i dont believe it so it cant be right" not saying you are but that is what is sounds like. Yes you could be right, but considering Carey was closely rated top wilfork and Carey was a huge need and the targeted player, Rick to me couldnt take that chance.
 
That's what the draft is for: the future. I think that goes double when the team has already signed so many tackles in free agency that it passes on two guys in the days before the draft who could be acceptable starters. We had no reason to believe that we didn't already have enough at OL because RS did a credible job of planning for next year at that position via FA.

I understand that a lot of you are in love with this drafting for need crap, but it doesn't mean that I will ever be. I hope this is the last time I see it from RS.
 
last post, promise. I am just tired of seeing defenders in our backfield as soon as or before Ricky get the ball or teh qb dets to throw. Carey helps solve that problem. Dt was not and is not yet anywhere the need o-line was. You cannot discount need unless the non-need player is that good compared to teh need player.
 
There isn't any need to promise that this is the last post. You have a right to say what you want. I'm not going to agree with 100% of what you say, and I'm going to say snarky things when I think you're making a cliched argument, but none of that means I'm trying to silence you or anything.

I think we're all tired of seeing defenders in the backfield. I think that it's a question of OLine only, but plenty of others also lump the lack of a downfield threat at QB into the problem. The thing is that we only hope that Carey helps solve the problem. He could be a bust, just like any college player could be a bust. Beyond that, we might have done such a credible job of signing free agents who work well together that Carey won't be necessary. There is little way to know for sure until the guys start playing together.

I disagree about discounting need. Mine is a hardline philosophy, but I am absolutely convicted that it is the way to handle the draft. What if next year sees a bumper OL crop and no DTs who are of Wilfork's calibur? You sign rookies to contribute over a set period. With first rounders, I think you have to believe the guy is going to contribute over a 6 year period or so. We can't forecast for sure whether we even needed OL for certain this year, so we have no idea what need will be over such a long period. That's why need doesn't come in.
 
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