What value does Cook have to this team as far as a contract offer?

[allsilverdreams]

Ironic if true because I was the board’s biggest Achane fan for months and got a lot of crap about how he’s too small and didn’t fit our need for a three-down back who can excel in short yardage situations.

For what it’s worth, I remain extremely high on Achane. But he’s a 190-pound rookie. I see him getting 6-10 touches per game maximum in the early going, and maybe 12 per game on the very high end if he proves to be a stellar rookie.

I’m obviously just much lower on Mostert and Wilson than most are. I see Mostert as a 31 year old, injury prone backup and Wilson as a third string quality player.

Agree
That's why I want Cook really bad.
It will change the way teams play us for sure.
He can win us a few more games himself.

 

[Kyndig]

I just named five completely mediocre running backs who got equivalent deals this exact same off-season. Miles Sanders and David Montgomery both got far more than both Mostert and Wilson combined, also this off-season.

You call Mostert and Wilson “quality starters,” but Mostert was a 30-year old with 9 career starts going into last season. Jeff Wilson had 5 career starts before joining the Dolphins.

Neither player was ever regarded as a starter before the Dolphins, and neither player was desired or paid by any other team after this season.

They are not highly regarded players. They are career backups who fit our system. Nothing more.

Mostert averaged 4.9 yards per carry, and is one of the fastest players in the league
Jeff Wilson averaged 4.7 yards a per carry and is a tough runner, which is why he does get injurred.

Together they had almost 1200 yards, and we hardly called any running plays.

I don’t care what other teams overpaid other backs, both of those backs (Mostert & Wilson) have proven to be very good in this system as they both played under McDaniel in San Francisco and if you add Achane to that room, it is electric because of the speed in that two of those backs are amongst the fastest in the league.

The problem we need to solve with our running game, is simpler we need to call more running plays and we need to simplify our down and short plays instead of trying to get too cute. We also need to take advantage of Mostert’s and Achane‘s speed to both run and catch passes out of the backfield, underneath and with designed screens to take advantage of the space that the defense will inevitably give us because of Waddle and Hill’s presence.

That’s how we improve our running game, and leverage the speed that room has. Signing Dalvin Cook wouldn’t necessarily be the worst thing in the world, but it doesn’t look neccessary to me. Maybe the front office will agree with you and disagree with my assessment and decide to sign Cook and if they do, I will root for him. But, I doubt it..

 

[TFK]

Taking contracts out of the equation, there isn't a single head coach in the NFL that would rather have Mostert or Wilson in their backfield over Dalvin Cook. It's okay to spend money on proven talent that will improve your team and that's exactly what Cook is.

This is a no brainer if there ever was one.

 

[Mach2]

Taking contracts out of the equation, there isn't a single head coach in the NFL that would rather have Mostert or Wilson in their backfield over Dalvin Cook. It's okay to spend money on proven talent that will improve your team and that's exactly what Cook is.

This is a no brainer if there ever was one.

Why would an organization take contracts out of the equation? That would be negligence.

 

[TFK]

Why would an organization take contracts out of the equation? That would be negligence.

I'm talking about the clear difference in talent between Cook and Mostert\Wilson.

 

[Marino2.0]

Mostert averaged 4.9 yards per carry, and is one of the fastest players in the league
Jeff Wilson averaged 4.7 yards a per carry and is a tough runner, which is why he does get injurred.

Together they had almost 1200 yards, and we hardly called any running plays.

I don’t care what other teams overpaid other backs, both of those backs (Mostert & Wilson) have proven to be very good in this system as they both played under McDaniel in San Francisco and if you add Achane to that room, it is electric because of the speed in that two of those backs are amongst the fastest in the league.

The problem we need to solve with our running game, is simpler we need to call more running plays and we need to simplify our down and short plays instead of trying to get too cute. We also need to take advantage of Mostert’s and Achane‘s speed to both run and catch passes out of the backfield, underneath and with designed screens to take advantage of the space that the defense will inevitably give us because of Waddle and Hill’s presence.

That’s how we improve our running game, and leverage the speed that room has. Signing Dalvin Cook wouldn’t necessarily be the worst thing in the world, but it doesn’t look neccessary to me. Maybe the front office will agree with you and disagree with my assessment and decide to sign Cook and if they do, I will root for him. But, I doubt it..

This is a very reasonable take, but I don’t agree with you.

I think people are making much too much out of Mostert and Wilson’s YPC stats. We ranked 25th in the NFL in rushing yards, 25th in rushing first downs, tied for 29th in 40+ yard runs, tied for 27th in rushing TDs, and ranked 19th in yards per carry. We were a terrible running team.

I do not think it’s simply a matter of calling more running plays. We didn’t call more running plays for a reason. We couldn’t reliably run the ball. Nobody was afraid of getting beat by Mostert and Wilson, and for good reason, because nobody did. We pretty much won on Tua’s arm or not at all.

YPC for individual players is a misleading stat. Khalil Herbert led all NFL RBs in yards per carry. Tyler Allgeier and Devin Singletary had higher yards per carry averages than Christian McCaffrey, Austin Ekeler, Derrick Henry, Saquon Barkley, Alvin Kamara, and Jonathan Taylor.

 

[EPBro]

Last year was the lowest ypc of Mostert's career and it was better than Cook's career average.

If you say you don't trust him to be healthy, that's one thing. Career averages? I don't see where Cook is much better, if at all, in any of the standard rushing categories. Receiving may be a different story, but I don't see many ppl playing up that aspect.

You can make a solid case for Cook for a few reasons, but not statistically. That's why I only want to pursue it if it's a low $, low guarantees (relatively speaking) deal.

Because your looking at fantasy stats and prior years in a different scheme thinking the result will be the same here.

It's not about what has already been done its about what he would do with the talent on this offense and in this particular scheme.

Any novice who puts on the film would be wise enough to see just how complete a back Dalvin Cook is and that he is clearly in another class then compared to a Mostert or Jeff Wilson.

Furthermore, if you understand the nuance of this scheme on the outside zone, the wind back, etc then you would realize what an ideal fit he is.

All this huffing and puffing about "saving cap" when we are in the absolute win now mode and would thank our lucky stars to get a back of Cook's caliber at this juncture of the off-season.

Get on the bandwagon man. The "right fighting" is old AF.

 

[Kyndig]

This is a very reasonable take, but I don’t agree with you.

I think people are making much too much out of Mostert and Wilson’s YPC stats. We ranked 25th in the NFL in rushing yards, 25th in rushing first downs, tied for 29th in 40+ yard runs, tied for 27th in rushing TDs, and ranked 19th in yards per carry. We were a terrible running team.

I do not think it’s simply a matter of calling more running plays. We didn’t call more running plays for a reason. We couldn’t reliably run the ball. Nobody was afraid of getting beat by Mostert and Wilson, and for good reason, because nobody did. We pretty much won on Tua’s arm or not at all.

YPC for individual players is a misleading stat. Khalil Herbert led all NFL RBs in yards per carry. Tyler Allgeier and Devin Singletary had higher yards per carry averages than Christian McCaffrey, Austin Ekeler, Derrick Henry, Saquon Barkley, Alvin Kamara, and Jonathan Taylor.

Look at the end of the day, if the team decides to sign Dalvin Cook, then of course the running back room will be better. I heard he just had surgery on his labrum (minor surgery that should heal well before the season) and that he‘s actually been running with a bad shoulder. If that’s true, then he could be even better with that fixed.

I do think, as someone who watched every snap last season and screamed at the tv over some of the play calling on 3rd and short, and also, was dying for more running plays to be called, that play calling, and game planning was a huge issue with regards to the running game, the biggest issue. The blue print should’ve been the Browns game, if you go back and watch that game, against a very good front 7 we dominated that team with a balanced attack.

All I’m saying, is it depends on how much Dalvin Cook costs whether the team will think it’s worth it or not because the running back room is pretty good, especially if Achane is the player we think he is. Hell, the ideal situation would be to trade Cedric Wilson for him! But I doubt that would happen. I know that Dalvin Cook’s trainer is the same trainer as Mostert & Tua, and I’m sure those guys would love to have him on the team, so it could happen. My only point is that I hope we don’t invest too many of our salary cap resources on him because at some point there’s a cost benefit equation that has to be done.

Espeically considering we’ve got a number of players (such as Wilkins) who need to be extended, and if we do extend him, he’d be like the only defensive tackle on the roster next season, and there are other players who will need to be extended or possibly become available on other teams (like Chubb was last year) that would be at an even more impactful position. That’s all I’m saying.

 

[Mach2]

Because your looking at fantasy stats and prior years in a different scheme thinking the result will be the same here.

It's not about what has already been done its about what he would do with the talent on this offense and in this particular scheme.

Any novice who puts on the film would be wise enough to see just how complete a back Dalvin Cook is and that he is clearly in another class then compared to a Mostert or Jeff Wilson.

Furthermore, if you understand the nuance of this scheme on the outside zone, the wind back, etc then you would realize what an ideal fit he is.

All this huffing and puffing about "saving cap" when we are in the absolute win now mode and would thank our lucky stars to get a back of Cook's caliber at this juncture of the off-season.

Get on the bandwagon man. The "right fighting" is old AF.

Lol..... Bandwagon?

You obviously haven't looked at the poll results.

Nobody that I've seen is questioning Cook's ability. I really wish ppl would stop purporting that is at issue.

The debate is how much better does he make this specific team, and what is that worth in terms of money? If we had him, would McD go away from RBBC, and give Cook the bulk of the carries? Does having a great RB even matter in terms of Championships today? Recent history says no.

Opinions vary, but there's more to it than some care to admit, because they are set, and their minds are closed to respectful, rational debate.

 

[Fin-Loco]

As noone seems to want to do a Cook mega thread, I'll post this in all of the various Cook threads just as an update.

 

[The Goat]

why would Dalvin Cook sign something that's essentially a one year deal?

Because he doesn't have much guaranteed money left.

 

[The Goat]

 

[The Goat]

From another thread:

I'm of the opinion that if this goes down, Minnesota will end up eating $3-$4mm of a restructured contract. Cook will make his $10mm guaranteed this year ($3-4mm paid for by Minnesota), and then another $4-5mm guaranteed next year.

Minnesota clears $9-10mm off their cap this year, and doesn't have to worry about dead cap rolling into next year, plus they probably get a beneficial pick swap.

Dalvin Cook gets his money this year, and more guaranteed next year (he currently has a $0 dead cap hit with $0 guaranteed next year)

Miami pays $6-7mm this year and $4-5mm next year for Dalvin Cook.

Everyone wins.

 

[MDFINFAN]

What OL do you think you’re getting for $5-6 million that is going to substantially improve the line?

Also, do you think Dalvin Cook is approximately the same quality RB as James Conner, Nyheim Hines, Cordarelle Patterson, and Gus Edwards? Because those are all RBs making between $4.5 and $7 million in average annual salary.

That's what happens when teams cut players with bigger contract for rooks who show in TC that they can handle the NFL. Then you can get a OL for 5-6 mil. Happens every year.

 

[Marino2.0]

That's what happens when teams cut players with bigger contract for rooks who show in TC that they can handle the NFL. Then you can get a OL for 5-6 mil. Happens every year.

Can you give me an example of a good OL who was cut in TC last year, signed with a new team for somewhere in the ballpark of $5-6 million, and then played well?

I’m not trying to be difficult. I just don’t think this actually happens. Guys who get cut in TC are generally retreads and sometimes they play well on their next team, but not at a $5-6 million price point. OL who get cut in training camp are lucky to catch on somewhere else for near-minimum money.