What will we do if..... | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

What will we do if.....

Guys listen, there are some guys that are just too good to pass up with your first round pick, no matter what weaknesses you have. I was never a big fan of Edge, even though i'm the biggest cane fan out there. I've seen McGahee and Edge play, McGahee's going to be better than Edge and Portis (I've seen all of them play for UM).
 
Re: It would be more feesable

Originally posted by rhadaddy


If we were in a position like the Cards, raiders, bills, giants, or bears, where we have a new caoching regime and we have the

time to look long term. But we don't, and all the moves we've made thus far have been to get younger for the future but help us win now. Rivers doesn't fit that mold.
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TIME to look long term? You as a dolphins fan of ALL fans should understand how short sided your thinking is. We had a pro-bowl QB for YEARS, yet we refused to draft a QB even when we knew he was nearing the end of his leash. And what happened then? How many years later, and we STILL don't have a starting QB?

The draft is meant to pick up players for the FUTURE. Every once in awhile, you find a gem that steps in immediately, but that's not the intent behind trades. The FA is full of proven talent that will make an immediate impact. THAT is where you snag your "win now" players.

FYI, we've been in the "win now" mode since we got Dan. "get a running game for dan and we win now" "Get a true deep threat for Dan and we win now" then after he retired "build a defense and we win now" "we need a RB and we'll win now".

And what's happened? We haven't WON anything. The sole reason for this, is lack of looking towards the future.

And now we're at a critical turning point in our organization, and you STILL don't want to look to the future. This defense has had more than it's share of "win now" oppertunities. It's time to shift focus to our YOUNG offense. We have a pro-bowl RB, a great WR, great TE, and a future great Tackle. In 3 years our defense will be being dismantled due to age and huge contracts. The ONLY thing we'll have left is our young offense.

THEY are what we need to build around now. If you don't get a true QB prospect in here now to groom into the team, then Chambers, Ricky's, McKnight and Smiths careers will be a waste. We'll need to find a QB after fumbling the ball on a QB in this years draft where we'll have the luxury of taking one, all while trying to patch up the defense.

The "win now" mode is a crock of crap. We were in "win now" mode 13 years ago, and we're still in it today. No team has been "close" and added a "win now" player and took it all the way. TEAMS who have made good draft picks, and worked hard together have won championships. If we continue to neglect the most important position on the field Ricks career will suffer as a consequence. That's not something iw ant to have on my mind.
 
Graythreat, agreed, this whole win now attitude makes me sick, you want to know where that gets you see the past 13 years of Dolphins football. The draft is where the future is decided not FA FYI.
 
It's a different situation but...

I also believe it was a bad pick. It just is a completely different situation than Miami is in this year.
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But the same rule applies Rivers would not be able to help us in anyway and we could've gotten more bang for our buck somewhere else.

Yes you've lost value on your first round pick, but now you have a star running back for years to come. You forgot to mention that.
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that's a big "IF" he becomes a star running back and "IF" he ragins his old form and "IF" Donahoe retains his job to reap the benefits.

You have to make investments, this GM game is much like being a business man. Suppose you have a machine that you can either repair or replace and you are given these options.

1.) You can keep your old machine, because slowly it is breaking down, but if you repair it, it will still run fine for the next 2 years or so. What does that leave you with: An old machine still, that needs to be fixed 2 years down the road.
2.) You can replace your old machine, for the same financial investment that it would cost you to repair your machine for 10 years. Knowing that your new machine will last for 10 years. What does that leave you with at the end of 10 years: A newer machine than the old one that you could possiblely retain a salvage value for at the end of it's service life and the same usefulness of the old repaired machine.
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you pulled that business analogy out of the ether, but anyways, those aren't the two options that fits our scenario. it'smore like saying

ok were going to invest x amount of money in our new IBM server system, then two month later go back to management and say, we're not sure if our system is gonna pan out, so just in case, we'll invest a dell system as well, while the budget allows for other needs to be met.

That's a quick way to get fired.

Odds are that nobody we draft will help us win now. This team should have all the starters in place by draft time. We should even have backups in place. The draft will, hopefully, provide an upgrade to a backup position and a future starter. Rivers fits that mold as well as as any draft pick. He just happens to play the most important position.
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So i guess we stay idle while Seau and Thomas gets older and Bowens and Zgonina get older.... and more expensive. If we can get a future starter, that can help out now on special teams and even be a spot starter, then we're better-off.

even from a roster point of view, we just don't have the roster spot to spend on a 1st rnd qb. But we do for linebacker,possibly d-tackle and Defensive end, safety, wr, and believe it or not TE.
 
If RIVERS is there at #20, he comes to MIAMI and FIEDLER goes. Even after restructuring, with the "cap"
saving FIEDLER will yield by being cut after 6/1, we could grab ANY SOLID OL-MAN STILL OUT THERE, OR CUT AFTER 6/1 (and there WILL be a few).
 
Re: Re: It would be more feesable

Originally posted by Graythreat


TIME to look long term? You as a dolphins fan of ALL fans should understand how short sided your thinking is. We had a pro-bowl QB for YEARS, yet we refused to draft a QB even when we knew he was nearing the end of his leash. And what happened then? How many years later, and we STILL don't have a starting QB?

The draft is meant to pick up players for the FUTURE. Every once in awhile, you find a gem that steps in immediately, but that's not the intent behind trades. The FA is full of proven talent that will make an immediate impact. THAT is where you snag your "win now" players.

FYI, we've been in the "win now" mode since we got Dan. "get a running game for dan and we win now" "Get a true deep threat for Dan and we win now" then after he retired "build a defense and we win now" "we need a RB and we'll win now".

And what's happened? We haven't WON anything. The sole reason for this, is lack of looking towards the future.

And now we're at a critical turning point in our organization, and you STILL don't want to look to the future. This defense has had more than it's share of "win now" oppertunities. It's time to shift focus to our YOUNG offense. We have a pro-bowl RB, a great WR, great TE, and a future great Tackle. In 3 years our defense will be being dismantled due to age and huge contracts. The ONLY thing we'll have left is our young offense.

THEY are what we need to build around now. If you don't get a true QB prospect in here now to groom into the team, then Chambers, Ricky's, McKnight and Smiths careers will be a waste. We'll need to find a QB after fumbling the ball on a QB in this years draft where we'll have the luxury of taking one, all while trying to patch up the defense.

The "win now" mode is a crock of crap. We were in "win now" mode 13 years ago, and we're still in it today. No team has been "close" and added a "win now" player and took it all the way. TEAMS who have made good draft picks, and worked hard together have won championships. If we continue to neglect the most important position on the field Ricks career will suffer as a consequence. That's not something iw ant to have on my mind.
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well put, but unlike the Marino situation or the jimmy johnson situation with this defense,

This coaching staff is literally on a short leash. Don Shula and JJ weren't.

Also, this isn't the same win now scenario, because in the past we were filling the gaps with vet FA.

believe it or not, we're rebuilding while still being competitive, by signing young FA with a lot of upside and getting rid of the older dead weight.

If Feely doesn't pan out, Rick will make a play at a veteran FA QB next year or most certainly draft one. or even give Sage a long hard look. Either way, i just don't see it happening. don't get me wrong, i wouldn't be mad with the pick for all of the reasons you guys have pointed out, however smart money says they won't

not because our FO is inept, but because it doesn't make any sense from any standpoint, and if you say well as insurance, then you're tipping your hand as being insecure about your choices. This year RS will live and die with Feely because he's ocnfident that he is our future.
 
Re: It's a different situation but...

Originally posted by rhadaddy


But the same rule applies Rivers would not be able to help us in anyway and we could've gotten more bang for our buck somewhere else.

So i guess we stay idle while Seau and Thomas gets older and Bowens and Zgonina get older.... and more expensive. If we can get a future starter, that can help out now on special teams and even be a spot starter, then we're better-off.

even from a roster point of view, we just don't have the roster spot to spend on a 1st rnd qb. But we do for linebacker,possibly d-tackle and Defensive end, safety, wr, and believe it or not TE.
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NOBODY we draft will help us much this year. You keep ignoring that fact. In the long run you get more bang for your buck from the QB position. That's one of the main reasons NE is successful without superstars at many positions. They have a star at the most important position.

You can draft LBs in later rounds and this draft has so much depth at DT we could get a good one as late as the fourth rd. There are fewer options at QB afetr Rivers.

The year NE drafted Brady they actually kept four QBs on the roster. Brady was the fourth. That turned out to be a pretty good decision. I doubt NE would have won either of their two SBs if they had said "we just don't have room on the roster for Brady."
 
Re: Re: It's a different situation but...

Originally posted by rafael


NOBODY we draft will help us much this year. You keep ignoring that fact.
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I don't understand why you keep saying that. Rookies contribute all the time. The Pats had lots of rookies contribute.
 
Forget Rivers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Our QBs are: Feeley, Fiedler, & Sage
That's it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Like it or not........ (I personally like it).
:blah:
 
Re: Re: Re: It would be more feesable

Originally posted by rhadaddy


If Feely doesn't pan out, Rick will make a play at a veteran FA QB next year or most certainly draft one. or even give Sage a long hard look. Either way, i just don't see it happening. don't get me wrong, i wouldn't be mad with the pick for all of the reasons you guys have pointed out, however smart money says they won't

not because our FO is inept, but because it doesn't make any sense from any standpoint, and if you say well as insurance, then you're tipping your hand as being insecure about your choices. This year RS will live and die with Feely because he's ocnfident that he is our future.
Click to expand...

And we will be worst off trying to find a QB in a draft that is expected to have only one QB with a 1st rd grade.

I would think that having to eat your children would make you mad. Who are you Mike Tyson?

Drafting a young QB doesn't mean your insecure with your other choices. A young QB usually takes at least 2 years to develop. It would be very easy for RS to say. "We had an opportunity to draft a great player who dropped into our laps unexpectedly. Many people had him as a top 10 pick and he was just too good to pass up. No, this has no effect on our starting position this year. We're going to bring him along slowly."
 
Thank You

Originally posted by LIQUID24
I don't understand why you keep saying that. Rookies contribute all the time. The Pats had lots of rookies contribute.
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I guess Aquan Boldin, the klecko guy from N.E., Terell Suggs, Chris Chambers, randy McMichael, Wade Smith, travis Minor, Jeremy Shockey, Edgerin James, etc..... did not help their team significantly in a starting or reserve role.

We lost Mcgarrahan, Gamble, McKnight and Russell on special teams and don't tell me rookise don't contribut on special teams. hell it's an old NFL saying that defense and
special teams wins games. NE and Baltimore did it. and you can't tell me that special teams isn't made up of majority of rookies and second/third year players.

If that's not contributing, than what is.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: It would be more feesable

Originally posted by rafael


And we will be worst off trying to find a QB in a draft that is expected to have only one QB with a 1st rd grade.

I would think that having to eat your children would make you mad. Who are you Mike Tyson?

Drafting a young QB doesn't mean your insecure with your other choices. A young QB usually takes at least 2 years to develop. It would be very easy for RS to say. "We had an opportunity to draft a great player who dropped into our laps unexpectedly. Many people had him as a top 10 pick and he was just too good to pass up. No, this has no effect on our starting position this year. We're going to bring him along slowly."
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Since when does Mike tyson eat his kids
:confused: :D

anyhow, rick Speilman has said that AJ Feely will be the new starting QB for the Miami Dolphins, to pick up a qb in the first round and have to surrender a 2nd for Feely, From a professional, non-fan standpoint would be dumb, no matter how well you sugar coat it or spin it. He will be killed by the media and peers for making that move.
 
Re: Re: Re: It's a different situation but...

Originally posted by LIQUID24
I don't understand why you keep saying that. Rookies contribute all the time. The Pats had lots of rookies contribute.
Click to expand...

Not at the positions we're looking at. QBs, WRs and OLs usually develop slower. There are exceptions, but the odds are like 1 out of every 100. If we go for any defensive positions then we have established starters who won't be replaced by rookies. The most we could hope to get is some STs help. I find that the long term value of a franchise QB greatly outweighs the value of STs help.
 
I agree with you Rafael, however id still like to draft a WR, Olineman, or QB ...teake the best player available but in that order.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: It's a different situation but...

Originally posted by rafael


Not at the positions we're looking at. QBs, WRs and OLs usually develop slower. There are exceptions, but the odds are like 1 out of every 100. If we go for any defensive positions then we have established starters who won't be replaced by rookies. The most we could hope to get is some STs help. I find that the long term value of a franchise QB greatly outweighs the value of STs help.
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Were not looking at QB, RS speilman long said that OL would be taken care of in FA, but if we do snag one they most certainly will play on special teams as do wr. and you're fogetting one of the most important reason why we wouldn't pull the trigger, beyond salary and that's roster spot.

Hey guys nice debating with you but I feel like I've said all that I can say and now it's becoming preachy
 
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