Where Does Suh Rank Among Miami's All-time Dt's?

[BenchFiedler]

How come no one mentioned Keith "Traktor" Traylor. This guy was a beast during his short tenure as a Dolphins (when he was healthy)

 

[gofins60]

IMO, signing Suh was a mistake. Overall, he didn't make enough of a difference to justify the amount of money he received. However, to be completely fair to him, Miami's defensive schemes/philosophy under Coyle, Joseph, and Burke have been terrible. Still, I never viewed him as a game changer in any way. Miami's d-line with Soliai, Starks, and others was mostly effective... the d-line with Suh was not.

 

[royalshank]

It's a joke that only Buoniconti is in the HoF from those No Name Defense Super Bowl teams. Arnsparger should be in too! The 0-4 Minnesota Vikings defense has Alan Page, Carl Eller and Paul Krause in the Hall....wth!?

Those Vikings players are all super-deserving (Krause w 82 interceptions is just mind boggling) but yes, far more fins - including Scott and Anderson should be in there along w Fernandez, Keuchenberg and Stanfill.

 

[spiketex]

I'm sure that these players from 45 years ago were great players - the best in their day. However, Manny Fernandez was listed at just 6'2" 250 lbs when he played, Bob Baumhower was 6'5" 261 lbs and Ndamukong Suh is 6'4" and 307 lbs. The game has changed and today's players are much bigger and much, much stronger. Where Fernandez was considered a big man in his day at Defensive Tackle - he was described earlier above by someone who saw him play as a "monster", but in today's game at just 250 lbs he'd be considered too small and far too light to even play the DT position. If we compare Manny's physical dimensions to a DT on the current roster (eg Jordan Phillips who is listed at 6'6" and 333 lbs), that means that Fernandez would be giving away 4" in height and 83 lbs to compete against some very big Offensive linemen.
I don't think that it is fair to meaningfully compare players from different eras and ascertain who was the best. Both were respectively, the best in their day, but today's players are simply bigger and stronger.

 

['Deep]

Those Vikings players are all super-deserving (Krause w 82 interceptions is just mind boggling) but yes, far more fins - including Scott and Anderson should be in there along w Fernandez, Keuchenberg and Stanfill.

Not demeaning those Vikings HoFamers at all. But, our 70s teams have gotten screwed.

 

[DolfanDuBbZ~]

Talent-wise Suh is as good as anyone. But impact-wise I'd call him 4th. He did not play long for the Miami Dolphins.

The hardest thing to evaluate is the fact that while they are all DT's, they fundamentally play different roles. Bob Baumhower and Manny Fernandez were as good as just about any nose tackle that ever played. They were dominant players. The trouble is that their role was to clog the middle, dominate at the point of attack, and prevent the interior run game from going anywhere. It was a running league back then, and trench warfare meant even more than it does today.

Today, the NFL has moved to a predominantly passing game, and clogging the run lanes has taken a distant back seat to disruptive penetration. Guys like Ndamakong Suh are dominant disruptors in the passing game, and demand double teams as well as push the pocket back into the QB preventing a step-up to avoid edge rushers. In Miami, he was devastating at it. And, despite being a penetration player, he possessed the raw power to manhandle a single OL and hold his ground against two OL. He was an excellent reactor to the run and a great arm tackler so his production against the run was great compared to other current DT's. But, he only played two seasons, and the defense wasn't even good those two seasons, so it's hard to say he lifted his teammates. Had he been a 5+ year Dolphin, he would rate higher, but today I'd rate him 4th, behind Baumhower, Fernandez and Bowens, but ahead of very talented players like Darryl Gardner. But, if I were picking an All-Time Dolphins team in their prime to play today, Suh is the first DT I would select.

IMHO, we are going to sorely miss Suh this year. We definitely need at least one more DT, and really we need one that's better than all of the DT's we currently have, because they're all below average rotational types. What is Hankins situation regarding health, fitness and contract demands?

You throwing Gardner in your opinion, got me. Context. Kudos.

 

[dolfan91]

I had forgotten about Chester. Thanks for your post.

SF great post as usual. Love all your thoughts on our Phins!!!

 

[royalshank]

Not demeaning those Vikings HoFamers at all. But, our 70s teams have gotten screwed.

Completely agree. How does a team that went to 3 consecutive Superbowls only have 1 member of its defense in the Hall? It’s ridiculous.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

IMO, signing Suh was a mistake. Overall, he didn't make enough of a difference to justify the amount of money he received. However, to be completely fair to him, Miami's defensive schemes/philosophy under Coyle, Joseph, and Burke have been terrible. Still, I never viewed him as a game changer in any way. Miami's d-line with Soliai, Starks, and others was mostly effective... the d-line with Suh was not.

I wonder that as well. If maybe that money could have been better used elsewhere, especially now that the team will have $22 million in dead cap space next season. At the time, Tannehill was still on his first contract so that was the justification.

What was a shame was that Miami didn't get talent around Suh. Add another disruptive DT and maybe no one would be able to slow down the Dolphins defense. I know there were holes everywhere, but expecting one player without much support to make a big difference was unfair. Suh still produced despite the constant double teams. It will be interesting to see how he does with the Rams and Donald at the other DT spot.

 

[Hoot]

I'm sure that these players from 45 years ago were great players - the best in their day. However, Manny Fernandez was listed at just 6'2" 250 lbs when he played, Bob Baumhower was 6'5" 261 lbs and Ndamukong Suh is 6'4" and 307 lbs. The game has changed and today's players are much bigger and much, much stronger. Where Fernandez was considered a big man in his day at Defensive Tackle - he was described earlier above by someone who saw him play as a "monster", but in today's game at just 250 lbs he'd be considered too small and far too light to even play the DT position. If we compare Manny's physical dimensions to a DT on the current roster eg Jordan Phillips who is listed at 6'6" and 333 lbs, that means that Fernandez would be giving away 4" in height and 83 lbs to compete against some very big Offensive linemen.
I don't think that it is fair to meaningfully compare players from different eras and ascertain who was the best. Both were respectively, the best in their day, but today's players are simply bigger and stronger.

I enjoy comparing players in different eras, but you are right, we cannot forget or ignore the changes in the game and personnel that have taken place over the years. Of the big 4 first mentioned, my only recollections are of Bowens and Suh. Bowens was a stud. But Suh was a freak. I have often wondered if Suh was allowed to play back in the old NFL days...with the old NFL rules....where them boys were nasty and vicious and it was legal...just how dominating his presence on that field would have been.

 

[LANGER72]

I agree with BSG
Suh was a physical beast but didn't play up to his potential or contract.
He rarely beat the double teams.
In their prime, I would rather have the performances of Fernandez, Baumhower, Gardner or Bowens.
We had better defenses with their play and they made more individual plays for substantially less money.
1. Fernandez
2. Baumhower
3. Bowens
4. Gardner
5. Suh

 

[WCUPUNK]

Honestly don’t know, Suh was as dominant as any player we have had on the roster the last two seasons. He didn’t live up to the contract he was given, but it was impossible for any player to. He was a factor in every game and brought it each week while playing an insane number of snaps. The only reason I would rank him behind Fernandez, Bowens, and Baumhower is because he was only here three years. Suh paired next to Aaron Donald is going to be a nightmare for NFC West quarterbacks next year. I’m glad we don’t play that division this year. Hopefully Phillips keeps playing up to the level he showcased last season and Godchaux continues to develop as a solid starter. We are going to miss Suh, but I think the additions of we’ve made on defense makes a better overall unit.

Also, great topic OP. 5 Star offseason thread.

 

[SCLSU Mud Dogs]

I agree with BSG
Suh was a physical beast but didn't play up to his potential or contract.
He rarely beat the double teams.
In their prime, I would rather have the performances of Fernandez, Baumhower, Gardner or Bowens.
We had better defenses with their play and they made more individual plays for substantially less money.
1. Fernandez
2. Baumhower
3. Bowens
4. Gardner
5. Suh

lol that's not true