Who has improved the most in the AFCE? | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Who has improved the most in the AFCE?

TheU said:
Buffalo without a doubt.

So you obviously think Losman is going to have a good year then? If you do, then it must be only you that believes this. If anything Losman will rack up plenty of rushing yards as he will have to run for his life. Your o-line hasnt significantlly improved and not has you d-line. I think Buffalo are in for another poor season.
 
Improved the most*

1. Dolphins. If you can go 9-7 with scrub QBs, getting a pro-bowler and a good backup is only a big plus.

2. Jets. Hurt by injuries and depth in 2005, the Jets come back with more of everything.

3. Pats. Won the East last year, added a good reciever. Big loss a kicker.

4. Bills. Small moves and not enough to bring it around the bend.

BZ
 
BwanaZulia said:
Improved the most*

1. Dolphins. If you can go 9-7 with scrub QBs, getting a pro-bowler and a good backup is only a big plus.

2. Jets. Hurt by injuries and depth in 2005, the Jets come back with more of everything.

3. Pats. Won the East last year, added a good reciever. Big loss a kicker.

4. Bills. Small moves and not enough to bring it around the bend.

BZ

I agree with this!!! Very good...and for a Jets Fan!!!
 
i just typed out a long indepth post...

then my computer crashed because it SUCKS!!

so ill sum it up.

pats lost key players and didnt sign anyone

Jets lost alot and didnt add anything but a rookie. (a good start, but rookies usually dont make a big impact their rookie year)

Fins lost most of the secondary, Seau, and Williams. but gained Allen (a small improvement over madison) and OC Mularkey. Mularkey + a small improvement in the secondary doesnt make up for all the losses. it really all depends on Culpepper. if he plays better than your last QB than i say the fins improved. if he plays great than i say the fins made a big improvement. but it all depends on how he plays.

the bills cut some overpaid old players. Losing Moulds will hurt the most. Signing tripplett, Price, improving 2 O-Line positions, and a new HC who braught in some new Defensive people i think ballances that out. While on paper it doenst look like the bills made any significant improvements, i think we signed good solid players and got rid of the bad ones. i say the bills, as a whole, improved slightly this offseason.

Most Improved:
Fins (all depends on Culpepper)
Bills (slight inprovement)
Pats (mostly losses but not to bad)
Jets (all losses)
 
BwanaZulia said:
Improved the most*

1. Dolphins. If you can go 9-7 with scrub QBs, getting a pro-bowler and a good backup is only a big plus.

2. Jets. Hurt by injuries and depth in 2005, the Jets come back with more of everything.

3. Pats. Won the East last year, added a good reciever. Big loss a kicker.

4. Bills. Small moves and not enough to bring it around the bend.

BZ

I like this list and I agree with ya.


The big reason why we are the most improved is of course Culpepper. We went 9-7 with Frerotte with Rosenfels. With adding a healthy Culpepper, adding two coaches with HC experience and with that adding more knowledge to the game and adding depth, I don't see a reason why we aren't the most improved team in the AFCE.


Now the Jets has suprised the hell outta me this offseason. Mangini seems like he has alot of knowledge of the game and he seems like he will turn the Jets around into a winning organization within the next couple of years. He is thinking the way that Belichick thinks and he is putting a roster together kind of like Belichick is by adding the right attitude and players that would fit in the system.
 
BwanaZulia said:
Improved the most*

1. Dolphins. If you can go 9-7 with scrub QBs, getting a pro-bowler and a good backup is only a big plus.

2. Jets. Hurt by injuries and depth in 2005, the Jets come back with more of everything.

3. Pats. Won the East last year, added a good reciever. Big loss a kicker.

4. Bills. Small moves and not enough to bring it around the bend.

BZ


Why do you rank the Bills below the Pats? I think the Pats have to be last. They have not upgraded from the guys they have lost.

1. K Adam Vinatieri
2. OLB Willie McGinest
3. WR David Givens
4. RT Tom Ashworth
5. WR Tim Dwight

I know they got Reche Caldwell, and drafted Chad Jackson, but I do not see that as an upgrade from Givens, and Dwight. Jackson may turn out to be a great receiver, but as a rookie I don’t think you can say he is an upgrade from Givens. They have not signed anyone to replace McGinest, or Ashworth, and I know that Gramatica, or Steve Gostkowski is not an upgrade from Vinatieri. I know that there is still time for the Pats to make some moves, but at this point in time, I think you have to say that their last.
 
The New Guy said:
Why do you rank the Bills below the Pats? I think the Pats have to be last. They have not upgraded from the guys they have lost.

Because they got a RB and WR (both players that can make a difference in the start of the season and still have BB + Brady which means they will compete.

Bills have a QB problem and didn't address it.

BZ
 
I agree that the Pats will be competitive, but the question is who has improved their team more? I do think that Jackson, and Maroney can make a difference at the start of the season, but when you take into account all the guys they lost, have they really gotten better at those positions?


I think the Pats upgraded the RB position, but that is about it. They did draft Jackson, but since they lost Givens, and Dwight, I don’t see that as an upgrade. And as with all rookies, you never know what you’re going to get. The names of David Terrell, Rod Gardner, and Freddie Mitchell come to my mind. I am not saying that Jackson is going to be a bust, (As I think he will be successful in the NFL); I am just saying that when you replace a proven WR with a rookie WR, I don’t think you can call that an upgrade until he shows he can play on the NFL level.


In my opinion, the Pats have not upgraded the OL, LB, K, or WR positions. They also lost their DC who did a pretty good job for them. Will Dan Pees be able to do the same?


The Bills did lose three big guys in Moulds, Milloy, and Adams, but I think they did a better job at improving other areas of their team. I think the Bills upgraded their offensive line with Gibson, Tutan Reyes, and Melvin Fowler, and I think they also upgraded the backup RB position with Anthony Thomas. I also feel that they now have a better OC in Fairchild than they did last year.


I don’t like to count on rookies as upgrades, but if you count Jackson and Maroney as upgrades for the Pats, what about Donte Whitner, John McCargo Ashton Youboty, and Ko Simpson for the Bills? Those guys should improve the Bills D-line and Secondary.


The Bills do have a QB problem and failed to address it, but they had that same problem last year. They did not lose anyone at the QB position, so they are neither better nor worse at that position. I believe the Pats will definitely have a better season than the Bills will, but just looking at who improved their team more this offseason, I say it is the Bills.
 
Caldwell sounds like he might work out if he stays healthy. Givens also had trouble staying on the field if you remember. last year was by far his best. i don't think it's going to be too hard to make them up among Brady's 12 or 14 targets.

Dwight may be missed for his PR duties, but not as a WR. Bam childress will more than make up for his WR duties, and the rook, (Willie Andrews?) looked good in camp as a PR.

The Pats didn't need to upgrade trheir OL. They just have to avoid losing Light, Koppen, & Kazcur. When healthy the OPats have the deepest and best OL in the division by far. I liked the roadgrader they picked up in the draft (o'Callahan?). He'll be in the mix at Rt, which has been the weak spot on the line the last two years. Gorin is not a starter IMO. Kazcur will likely be the starting R this year.

I know everyone disaggrees, but Gostkowski will have better stats than AV did the last 2 years, especially at Gillette, and will make a big difference in field position on kickoffs. The kid has a leg.

The question is, can anyone top AV when it comes to clutch kicks? Not so far. Hopefully the kid can improve on AV's 3 for 6 fg's in the playoffs the last 3 years. He ws a Pitcher, so he's used to being on an island with the game on the line. That could help.

Mangini did not do a very good job last year, mostly due to injuries, but how can you say he was 'good'? There's nothing to show for it. Pees has a boatload of experience in the college ranks and is in his 3rd year with the Pats. I'd think he'd do at least as good as EM as the DC.

LB? they lost Willie and Chatham. Vrabel slides into Willies spot (an improvement in speed if nothing else), and Mel Mitchell replaces Chatham and more. They do have to have the kids step up though (Banta-Cain, Claridge, Alexander). I don't expect anything out of the rookies, not for the Pats. It takes a while to pick up their stlye of play. I expect Beisel to make great strides from what we've heard out of camp. He better or the LB corps is definately an issue.

Add in what looks to be the deepest, most diverse group of TE's in the game will certainly help the loss of Givens. There's still time to pick up a guy like Kevin Johnson, who shopuld be ready by camp, recovering from an achilles.

I do agree the pats are not the "most improved", the fins are, but I think they are ahead of the Bills and the Jets, if only because of the topsy-turvy front office and coaching staffs. What is it, the 3rd or 4th new system for the Bills, and close to the same for the Jets? Pats have a huge advantage there. The coaches may be changing, but they are entering the 7th year in the same system.
 
Welcome back Tailgater!



Caldwell sounds like he might work out if he stays healthy. Givens also had trouble staying on the field if you remember. last year was by far his best. i don't think it's going to be too hard to make them up among Brady's 12 or 14 targets.

Caldwell may end up doing all right, but up to this point he has not show that he can be a #2 receiver in this league starting only 14 games in his career. Givens on the other hand was a solid #2 receiver that I think the Pats will miss. The Pats might make up his loss through other players, but looking at the WR position, the Pats have not upgraded.


I know everyone disaggrees, but Gostkowski will have better stats than AV did the last 2 years, especially at Gillette, and will make a big difference in field position on kickoffs. The kid has a leg.

I am not even sure that Gostkowski will start, but if he does, I really do not think he is an upgrade. He may do a little better on kickoffs, but it will come down to pressure. I would not want to have a rookie kicker trying to kick a field goal with the game on the line. Especially when he knows whom he is replacing. (a guy that Pats fans expected to make the big kick). That will only put more pressure on the kid. So, I say the Pats are not better off with Gostkowski.


Dwight may be missed for his PR duties, but not as a WR. Bam childress will more than make up for his WR duties, and the rook, (Willie Andrews?) looked good in camp as a PR.

How can you say a guy who only has 4 reception will more than make up for a guy who averaged 17.5 YPC and caught 3 TD this past season. I think there is a big difference in veteran WR’s and WR’s that do not have much experience.


Mangini did not do a very good job last year, mostly due to injuries, but how can you say he was 'good'? There's nothing to show for it. Pees has a boatload of experience in the college ranks and is in his 3rd year with the Pats. I'd think he'd do at least as good as EM as the DC.

The Pats “D” may not have been ranked in the top ten, or even top 20, but I thought that through all the injuries Mangini had the Pats D playing decent towards the end of the season. As for Pees, if BB thought that Pees is as good or better than EM, then why didn’t he choose Pees to be DC last year?

LB? they lost Willie and Chatham. Vrabel slides into Willies spot (an improvement in speed if nothing else), and Mel Mitchell replaces Chatham and more. They do have to have the kids step up though (Banta-Cain, Claridge, Alexander). I don't expect anything out of the rookies, not for the Pats. It takes a while to pick up their stlye of play. I expect Beisel to make great strides from what we've heard out of camp. He better or the LB corps is definately an issue.

I know you like Vrabel, and think that he is an upgrade to Willie, but even if he is, it will be Beisel who is going to have to take Vrabel’s spot. Is Beisel an upgrade over Vrabel? I think overall the Pats LB core is worse than it was last year.


Even with the new coaches for the Jets and the Bills, I still think they improved their teams more than the Pats. The question is who has improved their team the most. You can’t give an edge to the Pats just because they are still using the same system. Using the same system does not improve their team from last year. It does give them an advantage, but they are not improved because of it. The Bills and Jets on the other hand may not have a lot of wins this upcoming season, but I think that the new coaches and systems will end up being an improvement from the previous ones.
 
guatemalanfan said:
another easy one THE DOLPHINS


I know it is a pretty obvious question, but I posted it mainly to get the opinions of Jets, Bills, and Pats fans. I wanted to see how many of them would say it was not the Phins.


So far, just one. :lol:


TheU said:
Buffalo without a doubt.
 
Why, thanks, New Guy! :)


I agree the Pats have not upgraded at WR. If Caldwell can remain healthy, he'll get a lot more opportunities than he did in SD, where all the touchs went to LT, Gates & McCardell. The pats will always spead the ball out, even if they had a Chambers-type out there as the #1. With the addition of Jackson and a bevy of TE's, Givens won't be mised muich. Again, it comes down to health.

Keep an eye out for Gostkowski. He seems like the real deal (as much as anyone can be after OTA's at least). I loved the contest last week, where, if he made a 45 yd fg, with Vrabel calling 2 timeouts, then the team wouldn't have to run sprints at the end of practice. The whole team had a ball with that. He made the kick of course.

Unlike other college kickers, he's used a one inch tee since HS, and he's never had a kicking coach. I have more faith in him at Gillette than Adam. Did you see just how many times last year that the Pats chose to go for it on 4th & short inside the 40 rather than attempt a FG? Adam just didn't have the range off of the surface at Gillette. This kid will. Again, it'll come down to the late kicks - we'll have to see. I do laugh when i see the experts saying this will be the downfall of the Pats. Please! Maybe game, maybe two? I doubt it though. If so, how's every other team get away without a Vinatieri? Does every team lose multiple games because they don't have AV? The Colts had the most accurate kr in history. I'm glad they think AV will put them over the hump. If they don't win the SB, the move was a failure, right?

Childress had 3 rec in one game while Dwight had 19 in 16 games...and he played quite a bit. Give Bam a chance. He's an elusive sucker.

Regarding systems anbd coaches. Just look at recent history and who goes deepest into the playoffs. The Pats rookies from last year are looking great so far, especially Hobbs and Sanders. Now take the Jets & Bills rookies from last year. Back to the drawing board for them. Forget about the offenses. Just how many playbooks do you think these guys can absorb, particularly the brain donors? it'll take half a season before they start to get comfortable, and start playing and not thinking. Talk about something that counts for 2 or 3 games a year!

Watch the Jets trying the 3-4 this year. Not only do they not have the personnel for it, do they have the smarts to run a different scheme every snap? Time wil tell. The Bills are just going to be sad. Their ST's will again be their best unit.

I still think the Pats have gained more than both the Jets and Bills. They may have picked up more bodies, but both lost critical elements to their teams too. The Jets in particular will blow if they don't find the pass rush they lost with Abraham leaving. He's a much bigger loss than Wiilie G IMO.
 
Did you see just how many times last year that the Pats chose to go for it on 4th & short inside the 40 rather than attempt a FG? Adam just didn't have the range off of the surface at Gillette. This kid will. Again, it'll come down to the late kicks - we'll have to see. I do laugh when i see the experts saying this will be the downfall of the Pats. Please! Maybe game, maybe two? I doubt it though. If so, how's every other team get away without a Vinatieri? Does every team lose multiple games because they don't have AV? The Colts had the most accurate kr in history. I'm glad they think AV will put them over the hump. If they don't win the SB, the move was a failure, right?

Vanderjagt is a good example. He may have been the most accurate, but he could not make the kicks in the clutch. He may have won them a few games in the regular season over his career, but he cost them at least twice that I know of in the post season. Teams deal with bad kickers all the time. Just ask the 2004 Jets, and the 2005 Colts. Both kickers cost their team in the playoffs. Gostkowski may do alright, but if your season comes down to a 40+ yard kick, do you feel good about him being your PK? Since he has never played in the NFL, I don’t think it is fair to say that he is an upgrade over Vinatieri.


I still think the Pats have gained more than both the Jets and Bills. They may have picked up more bodies, but both lost critical elements to their teams too. The Jets in particular will blow if they don't find the pass rush they lost with Abraham leaving. He's a much bigger loss than Wiilie G IMO.


I don’t doubt that the Bills and Jets will have bad seasons, but looking strictly at who improved more, I still say the Pats are at the bottom. If you look at the individual positions, I think it is easier to see the improvements. I think the Pats got better at the RB position, but other than that, I don’t think they got better anywhere else. That does not mean that they can not be successful, as the Pats seem to have a knack for finding other guys to pick up the slack. I just think they are relying too much on rookies, and guys in new spots this season. If the Pats have the same kind of injuries this season as they have had the past couple, it could get ugly.
 
Now with all that said who will win the division.......................?



LMAO the Patriots, LOL.
 
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