Who will cry if we loose JT to Green Bay?

[dlockz]

My acknowledgement of stats and acknowledgement of his team contribution are 2 different things. I have always said he deserves a ROH for his work here. Most likely will make the HOF, maybe not 1st ballot but I believe he will make it in.

I have not forgotten the last decade. 62-7 loss in the playoffs didn't happen last year. the 11 point lead with 7 mins left against NE with the playoffs on the line that our defense folded on didn't happen last year. The many late season collapses didn't happen last year.

Taylor has been a GREAT statistical player. I for one cannot argue what he has truly contributed to his teammates. They would know better then me. All I can state is my personal opinion and what I have observed.

I have had a negative outlook on Taylor for about 7 years now. The momemnt I came to the opinion that he really didn't care about the Phins as a whole or the organization was a preseason game against TB. Now, don't get me wrong, I acknowledge that while here he was a beast and gave it his all, but I also believe that he wouldn't have minded being anywhere else. I get the sense that if he could have he would have bolted from the Phins any chance he got. I always felt he was a money guy and a me first guy.

This preseason game against the Bucs he was asked a question about how he felt about their defense and how long he felt it would last. This is not verbatum which is why I am not gonna quote him. But he basically stated that defense is different then offense. You don't plan on being on the same team or defense for a long time. You go in there do your thing while there and move on a few years later. I believe this was the season before we got Ricky. Ever since he made those comments I have been noticing all the little things he has said and realized that he never really cared about the Phins at all. Once again, what I mean is that whether it was the Phins or Atlanta or whoever it didn't matter. For the longest time I felt like it didn't matter to him.

He never made this defense or team a championship caliber team like say Ray Lewis or Derrick Brooks. Both had arguably worse offenses, and worse TOP during the regular seasons, yet you never saw their defense colapse late in games or late in the regular season like our defense constantly did. Mandich even said this himself, that it wasn't the offense that disappointed him year after year, it was the defense. Now granted, the offense didn't really help out consistantly, however, that never stopped Tampa Bay or Baltimore from winning it all.

Now I will always say that Taylor is a great Lineman. He deserves a ROH. However, IMO, he never elevated this team or defense to Championship caliber. I seriously wonder what our record would have been last year if we lost Taylor and had Thomas the last 10 games.

My opinion of Taylor is not based on the last year. It's been about the last 7 years.

Once again, great statistical player. But IMO, I will never say he was a great TEAM PLAYER, or leader. Cause a true leader will never wait around for someone else on defense to step up like he did many times and Zack Thomas even admitted that both of them did that a few times on games where there defense collapsed

RAy Lewis and Derrick Brooks never elevated thier team defense no more than Jason Taylor. Do you know how many pro bowl players were on thier teams. I do think Brooks is a good leader but with Lewis too many mistake running your mouth with being a leader. One man no matter how good he is will not make a defense the best by himself.

 

[GRYPHONK]

Even Dan Marino who was screwed royally acted with class after we screwed him. This is much more a testament to the class of Zach Thomas than how the organization treated him. We had plenty of money under the cap, it would not have killed this organization capwise to keep Zach Thomas. Lets not forget we tried to give like 20 million guaranteed to Calvin frigging Pace.

See you don't want anyone to assume with Taylor. Yet it is ok to assume that the organization screwed Thomas?

It seems like you are one of the ones doing alot of assuming on this board, only at the direction of the organization.

We all assume. It is human nature. Just remember, you can't debate a topic by saying others are assuming, then go ahead and try to justify your reasoining with assumptions.

 

[dlockz]

See you don't want anyone to assume with Taylor. Yet it is ok to assume that the organization screwed Thomas?

It seems like you are one of the ones doing alot of assuming on this board, only at the direction of the organization.

We all assume. It is human nature. Just remember, you can't debate a topic by saying others are assuming, then go ahead and try to justify your reasoining with assumptions.

We cut Zach because of age, money and his not being the perfect size, the organization has never said it cut Zach because he wanted out. As for taylor until training camp starts we really have no clue. Is it a shame he was not at the other functions yes but he seems in very good shape and has always been the consumate professional.

 

[GRYPHONK]

RAy Lewis and Derrick Brooks never elevated thier team defense no more than Jason Taylor. Do you know how many pro bowl players were on thier teams. I do think Brooks is a good leader but with Lewis too many mistake running your mouth with being a leader. One man no matter how good he is will not make a defense the best by himself.

How many pro Bowl caliber players were with Taylor? Come on now. Surtain/Madison/ Marion/Tim Bowens/Ogunleye/ Zack Thomas/ Trace Armstrong etc....

Did Brooks not lead a team to a Championship the year he either tied or set the record for most turnovers returned for a TD? Was not Ray Lewis the leader of a SB winning Ravens club. Did he not lead a team to 11 straight wins with an anemic offense. Did he not help lead a defense that went down as a top 5 defense for least points given up in a season?

You wanna say Ray Lewis ran his mouth too much to be a leader? Yet you wanna call a Player who sat around waiting for other players to make a play a leader.

I am starting to lose your logic now. I understood and saw your point for a while, now you are just grasping at nothing here.

 

[GRYPHONK]

We cut Zach because of age, money and his not being the perfect size, the organization has never said it cut Zach because he wanted out. As for taylor until training camp starts we really have no clue. Is it a shame he was not at the other functions yes but he seems in very good shape and has always been the consumate professional.

But you wanna say the organization screwed him, even though Thomas said differently.

Do you think maybe his constant injuries played a part of letting him go for a rebuilding team? Do you know for a fact what happened?

I am seeing that it's only ok to believe certain things players and teams say to the media when it fits the agenda, but when it doesn't we are not supposed to believe what was said.

 

[dlockz]

How many pro Bowl caliber players were with Taylor? Come on now. Surtain/Madison/ Marion/Tim Bowens/Ogunleye/ Zack Thomas/ Trace Armstrong etc....

Did Brooks not lead a team to a Championship the year he either tied or set the record for most turnovers returned for a TD? Was not Ray Lewis the leader of a SB winning Ravens club. Did he not lead a team to 11 straight wins with an anemic offense. Did he not help lead a defense that went down as a top 5 defense for least points given up in a season?

You wanna say Ray Lewis ran his mouth too much to be a leader? Yet you wanna call a Player who sat around waiting for other players to make a play a leader.

I am starting to lose your logic now. I understood and saw your point for a while, now you are just grasping at nothing here.

I thought there were 10 other players on thier defense. Lewis gets credit as the leader because he runs his mouth but in essence its up to each individual player to his or her job. Yes both players were on very good defenses comprised of some very damn good players and you know what in 2006 we had a great defense that was wasted by having no offense and poor coaching decisions, stuff happens. If Ray is such a great leader why hasnt he lead his team to more superbowls if leadership is what its all about.

 

[GRYPHONK]

I thought there were 10 other players on thier defense. Lewis gets credit as the leader because he runs his mouth but in essence its up to each individual player to his or her job. Yes both players were on very good defenses comprised of some very damn good players and you know what in 2006 we had a great defense that was wasted by having no offense and poor coaching decisions, stuff happens. If Ray is such a great leader why hasnt he lead his team to more superbowls if leadership is what its all about.

Stop trying to turn this on other people, coaches or players. I answerd your question, you didn't like the answer so now you are trying to make this about Ray Lewis who has won more Championships then Jason Taylor.

 

[dlockz]

But you wanna say the organization screwed him, even though Thomas said differently.

Do you think maybe his constant injuries played a part of letting him go for a rebuilding team? Do you know for a fact what happened?

I am seeing that it's only ok to believe certain things players and teams say to the media when it fits the agenda, but when it doesn't we are not supposed to believe what was said.

Up until last season Thomas rarely missed games for injuries. Ronnie Brown has missed far more games for injuries so you wanna just cut him also. We signed a guy who missed most of last season with an injury to be our starting guard, signed another player who has shown to be less than stellar at staying healthy in randy starks, traded for a DT that missed all of last year with an injury. We all know why we cut Zach Thomas its just a business but lets not act like they were doing whats best for him or it was respectful. Zach will never badmouth this organization because he is one of the classiest players ever and has much more class than our current GM by far.

 

[dlockz]

Stop trying to turn this on other people, coaches or players. I answerd your question, you didn't like the answer so now you are trying to make this about Ray Lewis who has won more Championships then Jason Taylor.

Ray Lewis was on a team that won a championship that is correct. Trent Dilfer has won more chamnpionships than Dan marino. Brandon Jacobs has won more championships than Tiki Barber or ronnie Brown. David Tyree has won more championships than Randy moss. Reggie Torbor has won more championships than Zach Thomas. Sam Madison has won more championships than patrick Surtain. In fact Teddy Brushi has won more championships than Ray Lewis so he is a better leader I am to assume. Does number of championships show who the better player is in any of these scenarios. Im sure Zach Thomas would have had a very good chance of doing just as well on the Ravens superbowl team.

 

[dlockz]

Stop trying to turn this on other people, coaches or players. I answerd your question, you didn't like the answer so now you are trying to make this about Ray Lewis who has won more Championships then Jason Taylor.

I did not bring Ray Lewis up in the first place just answered the part about him elevating his poor defense to the best in the NFL lol. That was a team of pro bowlers just like the Bucs, more a matter of head coaching than any one player.