why exactly does mckinney suck?

[finsnchips]

Misses alot of blocks...isnt really that sound of a player

I think his natural position is guard but we moved him to center once ruddy left...has never really shown he can be a starter but was pinpointed in cause hes the best we got

McKinney was an excellent C in college and played very well for us at guard in 2003.

His problem, like every other lineman we have, is the crap coaching from Wise.

 

[phinfan77]

about the play calling..........

I remember reading in the Palm beach post that McKinney didn't call the line assignments, the QB did. Foerester borrowed that from the colts offense, but forgot to add in the talent of colts players.

c'mon- how to you have a new quarterback calling plays from behind the sweaty *** of a 1st year center and expect him to give line adjustments to the other 4 new starters on the line?

 

[Agua]

Seth was a very good center in college, I really don't know why he has not played well but with the other offensive linemen who have been drafted recently not living up to expectations I'm thinking alot had to do with Tony Wise.

BINGO!!

The Phins have spent a LOT of FIRST DAY DRAFT PICKS on OL over the last few years (McKinney, Smith, Whitley), add Jeno. I can not believe they ALL are just incapable of performing at the NFL level when you have many teams fielding 7th rounders and walk on FAs and still producing competent line play (See San Diego).

 

[ohall]

I don't know if any player we have really sucks. With the coaching that was here last year Randy Moss would have looked AVG.

 

[Kucha]

He most certainly is NOT smart enough to call the assignments. That was one of the main reasons he couldnt beat out Ruddy. It was even commented on by the coaching staff.
Then again, Daves offensive scheme and Tony Wise's offensive line coaching made about as much sense as a screen door on a submarine so who knows...maybe with good coaching and a system that makes sense, McKinney may be OK.

...He also fails to make adjustments in his calling at the line of scrimmage when a team is ready to blitz or alter their pass rush..and that's a big deal for a center (not just his limited physical talents).

It's interesting that his "mental limitations" are the same poor traits that Taylor Whitley and Wade Smith exhibit. None of them seem to be especially bright and they're all Rick Spielman picks. The jury is still out on Vernon Carey (did not learn the playbook well enough last year).

My assessment of this is that Rick Spielman overlooks intelligence in his scouting which is probably a HUGE no-no for Saban who likes intelligent, tough players ala Bellichick. This is probably why he's going to be replaced, IMO.

 

[Lee2000]

How many of you are repeating what you read versus really understanding assignments?

I read what you guys are saying and I wonder how many of you really understand the assignments that an o-lineman gets. It appears as though many of you just repeat what you read from the media or what a coach says in general. A blown assignment anywhere on the line can make the whole line look bad. When you look bad you look bad, but I defer any critical comments about the line in context with what the position coach assesses. If McKinney is still on the roster at the beginning of the season I guess he is competent enough.

Lee2000

 

[dirtyb163]

everyone dogs seth, myself included, because he's pretty much sucked to this point. but what exactly are his weaknesses? from what i've seen and heard, he's smart enough to call the assignments, and is very athletic for a big man. i think he's just not strong enough to even hold his ground inside. forget about getting a push, im talking about just holding his ground. the bigger, more physical DTs toss him around like a rag doll. so, with that said, if he has skills and ability, but is only lacking strength, can't we get him on a serious workout program to add the strength necessary to battle inside? i'm not sure how much more weight his frame can take, or how much stronger he can get, but we did resign him this offseason, right? so the coaches saw something. perhaps he can bulk up and become more physical and develop into a solid center. just trying to be optimisitic here, because right now we have nothing else. what do you guys think?

It's exactly the opposite he's not smart enough to make the calls on the line and then he's also weak and gets tossed around like a rag doll and this was said by SABAN!!!

 

[CD13]

i don't think that's fair to seth. he's a bright guy. though it may not matter, he scored very well on his wonderlic test and was regarded as a smart player coming out of college. the team also called vernon carey too dumb to start last season. don't underestimate the stupidity of tony wise. he might lack lower body strength, technique with his feet, and familiarity with his guards, but seth is bright enough to handle line calls.

I agree with Baked. Seth was regarded as a good center prospect with the ability to make line calls. To be honest, at first I was thinking release everyone, but the more I have read the more I realize we need to hold judgment on all the lineman until Houck has a change to work with them. Cluster #### is exactly what we were, and that is coaching. I am more excited about Houck coaching our line than just about anything, because I could not take another year like last year in which our line was completely overmatched most of the time.

 

[Agua]

It's exactly the opposite he's not smart enough to make the calls on the line and then he's also weak and gets tossed around like a rag doll and this was said by SABAN!!!

Where did you see or hear Saban say this?

 

[LarryFinFan]

Misses alot of blocks...isnt really that sound of a player

I think his natural position is guard but we moved him to center once ruddy left...has never really shown he can be a starter but was pinpointed in cause hes the best we got

Well his natural position might be guard, but his collegiant position was center...the things that he seems to lack is the smarts to make the calls on the line (at least that has always been mentioned as an issue with him) and the fact that he does get pushed around in the center postion...he cannot seem to hold his own on the line. That goes for both the larger DTs and the speedier DTs....We need an upgrade at that position. Whether he can be an effective guard is questionable because we have so many guards that are capable.

 

[Avalanche of Wins]

if he cant be an effective center, hows he going to be an effective guard with a dt head up on him the majority of the time, nevermind pulling and trap work required at that position. i actually think he will be fine if he can gain some strength, i have much faith in houck

 

[DolphinzD]

I remember reading in the Palm beach post that McKinney didn't call the line assignments, the QB did. Foerester borrowed that from the colts offense, but forgot to add in the talent of colts players.

I can't help it. That's a really funny statement.

 

[arsenal]

seth is a very smart center... and his size is fine, most centers aren't huge because they need to be athletic... he does lack some upper body strength but i dont blame the line on him last year and i think he'll do much better this upcoming season... also remember last season was his first full year starting, the experience will make him a better player, plus better coaching and i think he'll do fine...

 

[Kucha]

I read what you guys are saying and I wonder how many of you really understand the assignments that an o-lineman gets. It appears as though many of you just repeat what you read from the media or what a coach says in general. A blown assignment anywhere on the line can make the whole line look bad. When you look bad you look bad, but I defer any critical comments about the line in context with what the position coach assesses. If McKinney is still on the roster at the beginning of the season I guess he is competent enough.

Lee2000

1. You can't excuse McKinney and the O-Line for failing to pick up the huge amount of missed blitzes and stunts last year. It wasn't just the coaching. The players are out there in the field playing and my understanding is that it is the Center that calls out blocking adjustments based on what he sees...and I wouldn't be surprised if that required some solid decision making skills in order to be successful. Last year's O-Line disaster was too blatant and clear. There were many many times when there was more than just one man (in one play) who failed to maintain a block or pick up a blitz.

2. Yes, I read articles which discuss McKinney's inability to make adjustments and I believe that some or many of these articles provide us with insight. If a coach is quoted as making a statement about McKinney's poor skills or ability to make adjustments, then it should be given more respect than a fans opinion. A fan could have even more insight every once in a while, but it would be an exception, not the rule. Again, I'm sure that a big part of last years disaster was due to the coaching staff, but you have to at some point place responsibility on the players who are actually out there playing. McKinney often looked overmatched, IMO.

3. Having McKinney on the roster at the beginning of the year won't mean much if anything. It doesn't take rocket science to figure out that good quality centers are hard to find...and so there isn't much of a choice right now about who we have under center. We're stuck with him atm. The coaching staff is trying Wade Smith at Center so it's obvious that there isn't complete satisfaction with McKinney and that they are hoping to find something/someone better. Give it a year or two. If McKinney is still with the Fins then, you will be right in that he is competent enough. In the mean time, we have history to dictate to us that we need a better (skilled), stronger, smarter center as soon as we can.

 

[ohall]

It wasn't just the coaching.

You don't know that. From all the accounts of what was actually taking place last year as far as coaching goes for the offense it was if there were no coaches coaching them.

How do you go an entire year and not have one orginized meeting as an offensive unit? Shouldn't there be at least 3 or 4 of those each week?