Why was he fired from NO | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Why was he fired from NO

painnotpleasure said:
Again, I had the very same question!! Thanks for clearing that up KuchaMucha. :lol: nice name by the way. And as for the Saint's owner Benson, from what I've heard he isn't such a great Owner. I remember reading something like he said he won't fire Jim Haslett because it would cost him too much money out of his pocket. I'm just paraphrashing here. So I think it's more of an issue with Benson than it is with than Randy Mueller.





Not to mention Benson is seriously considering moving the team out of New Orleans. The guy's a scumbag plain and simple.
 
Wasn't he fired after giving Dale Carter that huge contract?
 
MDFINFAN said:
Good point, these are some of the things that are bothering me about saban as well, while I thought it was great when we hired him, I'm not sure about his professionalism, that part of him stinks to me. I know he's on a honeymoon with a lot of our fans right now and can do no wrong, but his handling of some of the situations just rubs me wrong...I hope this doesn't spill over to the football team, because I want them to win.

I don't know, I think this gives Spielman the excuse of "they wanted and got Mueller, that's why I got resigned." The other option of waiting a couple weeks just makes it look like we don't care who we get, we just do not want you! I don't think this is as "classless" as you think. Spielman's a big boy, he'll land on his feet.
 
NathanHunt said:
Personally, I think the Spielman haters should eat their Mueller mutton meal in peace and quiet.

I for one am not happy how this has played out. I'm not as concerned that Spielman was forced out as I am in the timing of Mueller's hiring. I am NOT judging EITHER man (Spielman or Mueller) at this time, so please read before you stutter and misquote me.

But, just as I was about to state "their are no major GM duties pending in the coming weeks" (to necessitate hiring Mueller so quickly while Spielman's dust cloud is still visible).... "ROOKIE CONTRACTS" belched in my ear.

It only makes sense Nick would want "his own GM" negotiating the contracts of Rookies (his guys). And, that simple fact settled the debate for me.

However, I'm still not happy with the timing... no matter what the situation was. I believe a period of 1 - 2 weeks of vacancy would have shown a little more class for such an esteemed organization.

I don't care what others think. In business, there IS a WRONG way to do the RIGHT thing. And, I could care less for the "it's Nick's team" or "it's Wayne's team" and "he can do what he wants" chatter. This is about class and respect. Even people who are fired or have resigned deserve respect.

jmo
Speilman got all the respect that he had earned, which isn't a whole hell of alot. None of us have the credibility to judge the buisness decisions of our organization, and to even suggest that they might have been made without class is just foolish at best. Come on we've got better things to discuss here!
 
godfater21 said:
Wasn't he fired after giving Dale Carter that huge contract?

That was one of the speculated reasons, because the timing was right as it had recently been revealed that Carter would be suspended before he even played a down for the Saints. But the truth is, Mueller worded the contract to cover for just such an event so that Carter would not get his bonus money. Carter did come back later that season and the next and played fairly well but was troubled by injuries.
 
islandah said:
I don't know, I think this gives Spielman the excuse of "they wanted and got Mueller, that's why I got resigned." The other option of waiting a couple weeks just makes it look like we don't care who we get, we just do not want you! I don't think this is as "classless" as you think. Spielman's a big boy, he'll land on his feet.

We were NOT speaking in terms of Spielman. We were speaking in terms of overall class shown by Saban. It was common knowledge that Nick was interviewing WHILE Spielman was here. Spielman needed no "help" from Saban to further qualify his tenure with the Dolphins. Spielman's record (whether judged to be good or bad) will stand on it's own merit when he applies for his next job.

NFL organizations (with class), when hiring to fill vacancies in more professional positions, allow a time of absence between the "old" and "new" people. It shows respect and class. Then, leading up to the hiring, information is "leaked" about which direction the team is heading in terms of replacement.

Even "tight lipped" organizations "leak" information to help "prepare" the fans in an effort to get everyone on the same page.

This hiring is a blatant slap in the face to Spielman. In which case, Spielman is NOT the issue. The HANDLING and TIMING is the issue.

Some measure of class should have been given.

And, NO ONE knew Mueller was even on the radar. There was no time for speculation. It's the equivalent of having Spielman's resignation press conference followed directly by Mueller's hiring press conference.

I am sorry if opinions differ, but this move will stick in my mind as I begin to formulate my opinion of the Saban era.

When things of this nature occur in government or business, the results usually are not good. And, in handsight, people can reflect and see how the eventual dots of failure connected.

I'm hoping it does not. But, I will proceed with my eyes wide open.
 
islandah said:
I don't know, I think this gives Spielman the excuse of "they wanted and got Mueller, that's why I got resigned." The other option of waiting a couple weeks just makes it look like we don't care who we get, we just do not want you! I don't think this is as "classless" as you think. Spielman's a big boy, he'll land on his feet.

It's about how you handle a situation, not the end results...I don't think Saban has handle this very well..he depends on the guy's scouting report to get through the draft, then treat him like dirt..at least be respectful and tell the guy I want to go another way, be a man and up front with it. I like Speilman and know he'll do a good job with someone else. But Saban is the question mark I have, not his coaching or abilities in that area, but his ego, and professionalism.
 
JJT said:
Speilman got all the respect that he had earned, which isn't a whole hell of alot. None of us have the credibility to judge the buisness decisions of our organization, and to even suggest that they might have been made without class is just foolish at best. Come on we've got better things to discuss here!

I'm trying to bring a credible opinion to a current fact.

As far as the "better things to discuss"... I've been watching this board for some time..... most threads nosedive within a few posts due to the immature nature of the "it's so because I say it is" mentality.

Very rarely do we have mature and articulated posts. If you don't like the thread, don't read it. This is my opinion and the GAWDS of Finheaven have given me a medium to express it.

Quite frankly, if I don't come here to participate in only the "PC" threads.
 
MDFINFAN said:
It's about how you handle a situation, not the end results...I don't think Saban has handle this very well..he depends on the guy's scouting report to get through the draft, then treat him like dirt..at least be respectful and tell the guy I want to go another way, be a man and up front with it. I like Speilman and know he'll do a good job with someone else. But Saban is the question mark I have, not his coaching or abilities in that area, but his ego, and professionalism.

:up:

Like I said, "there is a wrong way to do the right thing".

Thanks for the exchange MD.
 
I agree much of what Saban is doing now kind of rubs me wrong. He is supposed to be this straight forward guy who addresses issues. So far I don't see him respecting people. I agree the changes should have been made, but I think there is a way to do it.:shakeno: :shakeno:
 
I'll give you an example which may help explain why Mueller was fired.

Before the 2002 draft, when he decided to pursue Charles Grant with the first round pick we got from you all in the Ricky trade, he convinced Benson he needed one more trip up to Georgia to meet with Charles. Benson approved the trip, no questions asked, and of course everything was paid for with team money. Turns out Mueller attended Masters events in Augusta---on Benson's dime---without informing Benson.

That's one example...he did that sort of thing often. Another was his purchase---again with team money and without permission---of security monitors, which he placed in the coaches' meeting rooms, and which he used to "spy" on them. (I'm being entirely serious.)

Yet another incident was his insistence upon interviewing with our most hated rival, the Atlanta Falcons, multiple times. Benson gave permission, but Mueller continued to work with the Falcons beyond what Benson understood as their agreement.

When you add events like this to the simple fact that, after 2000, Randy Mueller's major free agency aquisitions were simply horrendous---then his firing is no mystery.

Want to know what those signings were?

2001
WR Albert Connell - Given a big contract to complement Joe Horn, he was beat out by journeyman Willie Jackson at receiver and was a major locker room problem, just as Mueller's NFL contacts had warned (warnings he brushed aside). He stole money from Deuce McAllister, and was a major factor in the team's utter collapse at the end of the season.

Other moves included trading 2000 fifth round pick Chad Morton, who led all rookie return men that year and caught 30 passes, for a sixth round pick who did not make the team, and a cornerback named Earthwind Moreland who also was cut after camp and dind't even merit a practice squad spot. Mueller replaced Morton with an undrafted free agent named James Fenderson, who is now out of the NFL.

2002
Before his firing, Mueller signed the following...

CB Dale Carter - Between injuries and suspensions, he hardly touched the field. Was nailed for gambling in the locker room with younger players.

TE David Sloan - Built up by Mueller to be the answers to all our tight end woes, Sloan dropped as many passes as he caught during his Saints tenure, got hurt, and was gone a year later.

RT Victor Riley - He spent the entire 2002 season on the bench, fat and lazy. He played a bit in 2003, and started throughout 2004, where he was a horrible liability on our offensive line, unable to pass block. It was not unusual to see Aaron Brooks roll immediately to his left after the snap to buy some more time, as he knew Riley's man would usually be coming very, very quickly. Beyond his pass blocking woes, Riley led the team in pre-snap penalties, and remained out of shape. We drafted right tackle Jammal Brown in the first round this year to replace him.

DT Grady Jackson - He started for much of 2002, played well through the first half of the season, and then was invisible. He was cut halfway through the 2003 season after missing many meetings and remaining so out of shape he couldn't play more than a couple dozen snaps a game.

Other assorted moves included trading all-pro, future Hall of Fame tackle Willie Roaf to the Chiefs for a second-day pick. In KC, Roaf has continued his HOF ways.

Mueller made some good moves---mainly in 2000, with the signing of Joe Horn and the trade for Aaron Brooks---and had a few decent draft picks, such as Darren Howard, LeCharles Bentley and Charles Grant. But his negatives FAR outweigh his positives, and unless he has undergone some sort of brain transplant, his domineering, micromanaging personality will conflict with Saban, who is a Type A micromanager himself.

BTW---
Benson does not want to move the team. I don't know where you got that from. National media, I suppose. At worst they'll be sold to out-of-town interests, but Benson himself wants to leave the team to his granddaughter, who is a current Executive (listed as a "Co-Owner" in the team guide) and keep them in New Orleans long term.

The governor is a megalomaniac, and Benson is an NFL owner ... but hopefully cooler heads will prevail. The negotiations which were called off simply mean the team will remain in New Orleans under the current deal.
 
RaptorBpW said:
I'll give you an example which may help explain why Mueller was fired.

Before the 2002 draft, when he decided to pursue Charles Grant with the first round pick we got from you all in the Ricky trade, he convinced Benson he needed one more trip up to Georgia to meet with Charles. Benson approved the trip, no questions asked, and of course everything was paid for with team money. Turns out Mueller attended Masters events in Augusta---on Benson's dime---without informing Benson.

That's one example...he did that sort of thing often. Another was his purchase---again with team money and without permission---of security monitors, which he placed in the coaches' meeting rooms, and which he used to "spy" on them. (I'm being entirely serious.)

Yet another incident was his insistence upon interviewing with our most hated rival, the Atlanta Falcons, multiple times. Benson gave permission, but Mueller continued to work with the Falcons beyond what Benson understood as their agreement.

When you add events like this to the simple fact that, after 2000, Randy Mueller's major free agency aquisitions were simply horrendous---then his firing is no mystery.

Want to know what those signings were?

2001
WR Albert Connell - Given a big contract to complement Joe Horn, he was beat out by journeyman Willie Jackson at receiver and was a major locker room problem, just as Mueller's NFL contacts had warned (warnings he brushed aside). He stole money from Deuce McAllister, and was a major factor in the team's utter collapse at the end of the season.

Other moves included trading 2000 fifth round pick Chad Morton, who led all rookie return men that year and caught 30 passes, for a sixth round pick who did not make the team, and a cornerback named Earthwind Moreland who also was cut after camp and dind't even merit a practice squad spot. Mueller replaced Morton with an undrafted free agent named James Fenderson, who is now out of the NFL.

2002
Before his firing, Mueller signed the following...

CB Dale Carter - Between injuries and suspensions, he hardly touched the field. Was nailed for gambling in the locker room with younger players.

TE David Sloan - Built up by Mueller to be the answers to all our tight end woes, Sloan dropped as many passes as he caught during his Saints tenure, got hurt, and was gone a year later.

RT Victor Riley - He spent the entire 2002 season on the bench, fat and lazy. He played a bit in 2003, and started throughout 2004, where he was a horrible liability on our offensive line, unable to pass block. It was not unusual to see Aaron Brooks roll immediately to his left after the snap to buy some more time, as he knew Riley's man would usually be coming very, very quickly. Beyond his pass blocking woes, Riley led the team in pre-snap penalties, and remained out of shape. We drafted right tackle Jammal Brown in the first round this year to replace him.

DT Grady Jackson - He started for much of 2002, played well through the first half of the season, and then was invisible. He was cut halfway through the 2003 season after missing many meetings and remaining so out of shape he couldn't play more than a couple dozen snaps a game.

Other assorted moves included trading all-pro, future Hall of Fame tackle Willie Roaf to the Chiefs for a second-day pick. In KC, Roaf has continued his HOF ways.

Mueller made some good moves---mainly in 2000, with the signing of Joe Horn and the trade for Aaron Brooks---and had a few decent draft picks, such as Darren Howard, LeCharles Bentley and Charles Grant. But his negatives FAR outweigh his positives, and unless he has undergone some sort of brain transplant, his domineering, micromanaging personality will conflict with Saban, who is a Type A micromanager himself.

BTW---
Benson does not want to move the team. I don't know where you got that from. National media, I suppose. At worst they'll be sold to out-of-town interests, but Benson himself wants to leave the team to his granddaughter, who is a current Executive (listed as a "Co-Owner" in the team guide) and keep them in New Orleans long term.

The governor is a megalomaniac, and Benson is an NFL owner ... but hopefully cooler heads will prevail. The negotiations which were called off simply mean the team will remain in New Orleans under the current deal.

I appreciate your input and point of view.... but, I'll just warn you... DUCK!

:couch:

The Spielman haters who are joyous to his departure will not like you raining on their parade!

And, I'm sure you receive a few eggs tossed in your direction stating how wrong your facts are just because they said so.

But, hey... don't let the mob scare ya!

:lol:
 
NathanHunt said:
I appreciate your input and point of view.... but, I'll just warn you... DUCK!

:couch:

The Spielman haters who are joyous to his departure will not like you raining on their parade!

And, I'm sure you receive a few eggs tossed in your direction stating how wrong your facts are just because they said so.

But, hey... don't let the mob scare ya!

:lol:

A good friend of mine is both a Saints fan and Dolphins fan. I wish nothing but good things for your organization, and perhaps Mueller has learned from his mistakes.

I'm not worried about debates, though. I just thought I've give another Saintsfan POV. :D
 
RaptorBpW said:
I'll give you an example which may help explain why Mueller was fired.

Before the 2002 draft, when he decided to pursue Charles Grant with the first round pick we got from you all in the Ricky trade, he convinced Benson he needed one more trip up to Georgia to meet with Charles. Benson approved the trip, no questions asked, and of course everything was paid for with team money. Turns out Mueller attended Masters events in Augusta---on Benson's dime---without informing Benson.

That's one example...he did that sort of thing often. Another was his purchase---again with team money and without permission---of security monitors, which he placed in the coaches' meeting rooms, and which he used to "spy" on them. (I'm being entirely serious.)

Yet another incident was his insistence upon interviewing with our most hated rival, the Atlanta Falcons, multiple times. Benson gave permission, but Mueller continued to work with the Falcons beyond what Benson understood as their agreement.

When you add events like this to the simple fact that, after 2000, Randy Mueller's major free agency aquisitions were simply horrendous---then his firing is no mystery.

Want to know what those signings were?

2001
WR Albert Connell - Given a big contract to complement Joe Horn, he was beat out by journeyman Willie Jackson at receiver and was a major locker room problem, just as Mueller's NFL contacts had warned (warnings he brushed aside). He stole money from Deuce McAllister, and was a major factor in the team's utter collapse at the end of the season.

Other moves included trading 2000 fifth round pick Chad Morton, who led all rookie return men that year and caught 30 passes, for a sixth round pick who did not make the team, and a cornerback named Earthwind Moreland who also was cut after camp and dind't even merit a practice squad spot. Mueller replaced Morton with an undrafted free agent named James Fenderson, who is now out of the NFL.

2002
Before his firing, Mueller signed the following...

CB Dale Carter - Between injuries and suspensions, he hardly touched the field. Was nailed for gambling in the locker room with younger players.

TE David Sloan - Built up by Mueller to be the answers to all our tight end woes, Sloan dropped as many passes as he caught during his Saints tenure, got hurt, and was gone a year later.

RT Victor Riley - He spent the entire 2002 season on the bench, fat and lazy. He played a bit in 2003, and started throughout 2004, where he was a horrible liability on our offensive line, unable to pass block. It was not unusual to see Aaron Brooks roll immediately to his left after the snap to buy some more time, as he knew Riley's man would usually be coming very, very quickly. Beyond his pass blocking woes, Riley led the team in pre-snap penalties, and remained out of shape. We drafted right tackle Jammal Brown in the first round this year to replace him.

DT Grady Jackson - He started for much of 2002, played well through the first half of the season, and then was invisible. He was cut halfway through the 2003 season after missing many meetings and remaining so out of shape he couldn't play more than a couple dozen snaps a game.

Other assorted moves included trading all-pro, future Hall of Fame tackle Willie Roaf to the Chiefs for a second-day pick. In KC, Roaf has continued his HOF ways.

Mueller made some good moves---mainly in 2000, with the signing of Joe Horn and the trade for Aaron Brooks---and had a few decent draft picks, such as Darren Howard, LeCharles Bentley and Charles Grant. But his negatives FAR outweigh his positives, and unless he has undergone some sort of brain transplant, his domineering, micromanaging personality will conflict with Saban, who is a Type A micromanager himself.

BTW---
Benson does not want to move the team. I don't know where you got that from. National media, I suppose. At worst they'll be sold to out-of-town interests, but Benson himself wants to leave the team to his granddaughter, who is a current Executive (listed as a "Co-Owner" in the team guide) and keep them in New Orleans long term.

The governor is a megalomaniac, and Benson is an NFL owner ... but hopefully cooler heads will prevail. The negotiations which were called off simply mean the team will remain in New Orleans under the current deal.

Wow! That spying thing, if true, is horrendous. Personnally, I see Mueller as a guy with a decent eye for talent (but not better than many other candidates), and a very good negotiator. He does, however have some negatives. I see him as a self-promoter who ignores character and personality issues. I see him as a loose cannon and frankly not a guy who will be here very long.
 
RaptorBpW said:
I'll give you an example which may help explain why Mueller was fired.

Before the 2002 draft, when he decided to pursue Charles Grant with the first round pick we got from you all in the Ricky trade, he convinced Benson he needed one more trip up to Georgia to meet with Charles. Benson approved the trip, no questions asked, and of course everything was paid for with team money. Turns out Mueller attended Masters events in Augusta---on Benson's dime---without informing Benson.

That's one example...he did that sort of thing often. Another was his purchase---again with team money and without permission---of security monitors, which he placed in the coaches' meeting rooms, and which he used to "spy" on them. (I'm being entirely serious.)

Yet another incident was his insistence upon interviewing with our most hated rival, the Atlanta Falcons, multiple times. Benson gave permission, but Mueller continued to work with the Falcons beyond what Benson understood as their agreement.

When you add events like this to the simple fact that, after 2000, Randy Mueller's major free agency aquisitions were simply horrendous---then his firing is no mystery.

Want to know what those signings were?

2001
WR Albert Connell - Given a big contract to complement Joe Horn, he was beat out by journeyman Willie Jackson at receiver and was a major locker room problem, just as Mueller's NFL contacts had warned (warnings he brushed aside). He stole money from Deuce McAllister, and was a major factor in the team's utter collapse at the end of the season.

Other moves included trading 2000 fifth round pick Chad Morton, who led all rookie return men that year and caught 30 passes, for a sixth round pick who did not make the team, and a cornerback named Earthwind Moreland who also was cut after camp and dind't even merit a practice squad spot. Mueller replaced Morton with an undrafted free agent named James Fenderson, who is now out of the NFL.

2002
Before his firing, Mueller signed the following...

CB Dale Carter - Between injuries and suspensions, he hardly touched the field. Was nailed for gambling in the locker room with younger players.

TE David Sloan - Built up by Mueller to be the answers to all our tight end woes, Sloan dropped as many passes as he caught during his Saints tenure, got hurt, and was gone a year later.

RT Victor Riley - He spent the entire 2002 season on the bench, fat and lazy. He played a bit in 2003, and started throughout 2004, where he was a horrible liability on our offensive line, unable to pass block. It was not unusual to see Aaron Brooks roll immediately to his left after the snap to buy some more time, as he knew Riley's man would usually be coming very, very quickly. Beyond his pass blocking woes, Riley led the team in pre-snap penalties, and remained out of shape. We drafted right tackle Jammal Brown in the first round this year to replace him.

DT Grady Jackson - He started for much of 2002, played well through the first half of the season, and then was invisible. He was cut halfway through the 2003 season after missing many meetings and remaining so out of shape he couldn't play more than a couple dozen snaps a game.

Other assorted moves included trading all-pro, future Hall of Fame tackle Willie Roaf to the Chiefs for a second-day pick. In KC, Roaf has continued his HOF ways.

Mueller made some good moves---mainly in 2000, with the signing of Joe Horn and the trade for Aaron Brooks---and had a few decent draft picks, such as Darren Howard, LeCharles Bentley and Charles Grant. But his negatives FAR outweigh his positives, and unless he has undergone some sort of brain transplant, his domineering, micromanaging personality will conflict with Saban, who is a Type A micromanager himself.

BTW---
Benson does not want to move the team. I don't know where you got that from. National media, I suppose. At worst they'll be sold to out-of-town interests, but Benson himself wants to leave the team to his granddaughter, who is a current Executive (listed as a "Co-Owner" in the team guide) and keep them in New Orleans long term.

The governor is a megalomaniac, and Benson is an NFL owner ... but hopefully cooler heads will prevail. The negotiations which were called off simply mean the team will remain in New Orleans under the current deal.


Thanks for the factual and detailed info. It's not what we want to hear, but it's consistent with the uneasy impression I had of him.
 
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