Will Flores Break The Bad Belichek Tree Trend? | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Will Flores Break The Bad Belichek Tree Trend?

I'm going to get behind the hire until given a reason not to be.

He has certainly gone out of his way to get experience across the spectrum of how a successful organization operates.

I don't mind, really, if He, and Grier are friendly. Business usually puts certain strains on relationships through.

The question really is, is he competent at installing a realistic, consistent, winning game plan?

I actually feel better about this hire, than I have since the mighty Cam Cameron.
 
I bet you supported Philbin and Gase hires lol.
No troll, I don't pass judgements on moves until after I've had enough time to come to logical conclusions.
Unlike you, who's primary intention is to be a troll and to disrupt the forums with your trollish behaviors and posts.

The one thing that matters above is all is finding a quarterback that knows how to play football and sustain drives - No coach is going to be able to overcome the crap we've been dealing with since Marino's retirement.
 
I wouldn't put money on it. But who knows, stranger things have happened. Kinda like the Pats always seem to come up with Houdini tricks at home.:wink:
 
You know this for a fact? You spoke to Belichek? I guess Richard didnt earn it either as he was not the DC in Dallas.

I know this because I heard a Patriot rep on “Locked on Dolphins” state that Belichek doesn’t give that title out until he thinks you’ve earned it...he did the same thing with Patricia...
 
There's always an element of chance in hiring a new head coach. But, typically there are indicators, predictors of success, that form the foundation of the decision to hire. So far, the only indicators of success I've seen are association with Belichick and personal knowledge of Grier. Since I don't know what Grier knows, I can't evaluate that one. But I can say that it does not appear the New England coaching staff has ever had a culture of teaching coaching.

It's one thing to carry out an order, be a good soldier. I think the Patriots organization does a fantastic job of that up and down the tree both coaches and players. That is the basis of that entire organization, and why their motto is "Do your job." Because a marine's job is not to question why, a marine's job is to do or die. Belichick has a lot of military exposure, and he runs his teams in a military manner. Information is on a need to know basis. Belichick listens to all of the strategy, then chooses the course of the ship, and then implements the strategies he wants, both on offense and defense. Of his coaches that have gone elsewhere, the only ones I can recall him really missing/fearing were Josh McDaniels and Romeo Crenel, both of whom seem to have been very good coaches in their own right.

Most coaching staffs have a group pow wow where the coaches share information freely across the entire coaching staff, or across the entire offense, or entire defense. I'm not sure Belichick does a lot of that. So his staff never knows the full story, only Belichick does. Sure, nothing ever leaks. Sure, it clearly works when you have someone as talented as Belichick leading the way, and it compartmentalizes information making it harder to be caught cheating … and Belichick doesn't seem to have any compunction about cheating either.

But there is another element missing from the Belichick coaching tree. On most staffs the more experienced guys TEACH the younger coaches why they do things, what consequences they're avoiding by making those decisions, how it all fits into the larger picture, why tactic X works for some players and not for others, examples of their previous coaching experiences and how these things worked and why they worked out that way. Just as teaching is a crucial element in coaching players, it is a valuable element for young coaches to be taught by more experienced coaches.

Belichick not only doesn't promote coaches teaching coaches, he discourages it. So his coaches end up being good marines, people who do exactly what they're told and implement his decisions. For most things, they can figure out the why, but maybe not much over half of them. There are a lot of decisions where they misinterpret the why or they simply don't know the why, and so they end up making lots of bad decisions and having difficulty putting those into context to effectively learn from those poor decisions.

I'm not knocking Bill Belichick's coaching methodology, it obviously works for him. But I have zero faith in that methodology for his coaching tree. I give Flores no credit for having worked with Belichick this long, because I don't see evidence of his success without Belichick, and I have no faith that Belichick helped any of his staff learn. So essentially, without some other independent indicator of success, I can't get behind the Flores choice if that is the one we make. Nothing against Flores, but Bill Belichick doesn't help coaches learn.

Very well said..you communicated what I was thinking!
 
I'm going to get behind the hire until given a reason not to be.

He has certainly gone out of his way to get experience across the spectrum of how a successful organization operates.

I don't mind, really, if He, and Grier are friendly. Business usually puts certain strains on relationships through.

The question really is, is he competent at installing a realistic, consistent, winning game plan?

I actually feel better about this hire, than I have since the mighty Cam Cameron.

I’ve done that for 48 years...not anymore... this is not a qualified head coach...even if he is a good coach.

He has not been in an upper leadership position yet...just assistant status.

I really think any coach aspiring to be a head coach in the NFL should head coach at another level first...or at least be an asst. head coach in the NFL...like Rizzi was!
 
No and won’t be totally his fault. It’ll start with the fact that he will have been hired in the first place. Much like the Dolphins drafting RT with the 8th pick, drafting Parker in the first, hiring Cameron, Sparano, Philbin, and Gase, this is bad choice. Literally the worst choice. So as not to blame Flores or the other failures, they didn’t draft themselves or hire themselves.

Dolphins management did. They’ve cornered the market on horrendous decision making.
 
It would certainly seem, looking at this hire rationally based on what's been "proven," the odds of it being

a successful move are rather slim. But the odds of any new HC are low to begin with -- the vast majority

seem to fail. This is definitely a "reach" move based on pure projection as opposed to proven results...

I want to see what the staff looks like and really hope we go aggressive with some young gun

as OC -- or at least have someone like that in a role where we can implement a heavy RPO

quick paced attack from every angle O. I definitely don't want to see another "me2"

pro O that needs a super star QB to perform...

But hey -- I just want to see some entertaining football from our team.

yes...I’d be happy if they would just realize that QB is the number 1 priority... and without it your team is boring and futile.

I am older... and had basically back to back hall of fame quarterbacks as a younger man.

It has killed me watching them draft Jamar Fletcher when I wanted Drew Brees.

Drafting Ronnie Brown when I wanted Aaron Rodgers.

Drafting Jake Long when I wanted Matt Ryan!

The point is... we didn’t have a franchise QB when we made those decisions...so I believe you pick QB’s until you find one...that’s a strategy I can support and be happy with.

Trying to get by with average QB’s is not a game plan I can support.
 
Guys please keep the discussion civil. Taking personal shots at other posters you disagree with is not allowed and will be deleted . Attack their argument and not them personally.

Thanks in advance for your cooperation
 
Even if Flores does well, it'll still be sort of a trend. Flores will be an exception.

If we just look specifically at guys who were hired away from prominent positions in New England to be head coaches in the FBS/NFL, the results are pretty dang bad. Posted it in another thread but we're talking like a sub .400 winning percentage on the combined resumes of guys like Mangini, Patricia, McDaniels, Crennel, and Weis. Bill O'Brien has a winning record (42-38 in the NFL), but aside from that it's a total disaster.

It's not that they haven't been good. It's that they've been very bad and left their teams in lousy shape. They come in and talk about DA PATRIOT WAY while imploding the roster, demoralizing the fanbase, and pissing off everyone in the building. Eric Mangini pissed everyone off so much in Cleveland that I think he is still in the studio. I don't know what Charlie Weis is doing these days but people probably aren't looking for signed copies of his book as anything but a cruel gag gift.
 
This is one major reason i don't like about him. I also don't like the fact that he is coming from "The Cheatrious" but hey, if a guy is beneficial and actually good for my team, i'd welcome anyone whoever that is.
But somehow almost everyone failed. Not just HC but QBs if hes from the Cheatrious. Could he be different? No one knows.
Is there reason to be skeptical about his hire? HELL YEAH
 
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