With Surtaion got, who you have at 46? | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

With Surtaion got, who you have at 46?

Boomer

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Reggie Brown, Chris Spencer, Mark Bradley, Castillo, Marcus Johnson
J.J. Arrington, Eric Shelton, Terrence Murphy, Vernand Morency, Elton Brown
Marion Barber III, Burnett, Patterson, Corey Webster, Bullocks, Tuck?

Good news.
 

NLude33

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A month ago I would've said Jason Cambell, but that doesn't look good. So I would have to go with Barber III if we take Edwards at #2.
 

KB21

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I'm disappointed in this trade. I do not feel we got proper value for Patrick. We shouldn't have to be swapping 5th round picks. They should be giving us their 5th round pick as well as a pick next year.

Something is very wrong when Philip Buchanan draws more in a trade than Patrick Surtain.
 

phunwin

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To be fair, Buchanon is younger and significantly cheaper. How many more years does Patrick have as an elite corner? 2, 3? I'm okay with it.

I want Darryl Blackstock at 46.
 

ckparrothead

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I'm disappointed in this trade. I do not feel we got proper value for Patrick. We shouldn't have to be swapping 5th round picks. They should be giving us their 5th round pick as well as a pick next year.

Something is very wrong when Philip Buchanan draws more in a trade than Patrick Surtain.

Knowing Carl Peterson, he really would not have done this trade unles we swapped 4th rounders, or 5th rounder. I actually consider it a bit of a coup that we argued him into swapping 5th rounders instead of 4th rounders, because you know that is what he probably offered when he finally caved into the 2nd round pick. This is Carl Peterson we're talking about, he has a history. This is almost exactly what he did with the Trent Green situation. Everyone knew he wanted/needed Green, and he said he wasn't giving up a 1st rounder for him many, many times. But in the end, he did the first rounder, and just went ahead and did a pick swap in a lower round to make him feel like he added value as a GM.

If you had the choice of doing the 5th round swap, or having the deal get tabled until after the draft, what would you do? Because I can virtually guarantee, knowing Carl's history, he would have let this deal fall through the cracks if he was not able to do SOMETHING to convince people he added value and did not just cave in to Miami's stated demands.
 

KB21

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Surtain is 10 times the player Buchanan is. His value is much higher, and Miami should have gotten more for him in a trade.

In the past two years, we have taken two players at two positions that are very tough to fill....two positions that carry the most value....and we have traded them away for virtually nothing.
 

ckparrothead

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I definitely disagree with that assessment. This is not the old NFL. This is the salary capped NFL. Guys with only one year left on their deals (or no years, in Ogunleye's case), even if they are really good, are not worth as much because they are virtually free agents. You don't give up high picks to free agents. You give up picks if you can get a guy that has high value to the team, and low value on the salary cap.

This is why you find that players with a franchise tag on them, even ones as valuable as Edgerrin James and Shaun Alexander, are not commanding first round picks anymore. At most, if they are real good, at a top priority position, you'll get a 1st rounder for them.
 

stan marino

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Well its tough to get proper compensation when they have to trade us a first day pick and then on top of that shell out a huge contract. Its almost like they gave up two players.
 

DrAstroZoom

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KB21 said:
Surtain is 10 times the player Buchanan is. His value is much higher, and Miami should have gotten more for him in a trade.

In the past two years, we have taken two players at two positions that are very tough to fill....two positions that carry the most value....and we have traded them away for virtually nothing.


But KB, it was very much appearing we weren't GOING to get any more for him. If we were going to get a better offer, we would have by now.

Saban is thinking in the long-term. This is a long-term value deal.
 

phunwin

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Agreed. This is simply the best price the market would bear. Remember that if Carlos Rogers should last until 15, suddenly Saban's leverage is gone, and after the #46 pick, that's all she wrote. Though we had the advantage in this deal, it wasn't going to last much longer.
 

KB21

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I would have rather kept him and franchised him next year than to take this deal.

The proper value for Surtain suggest we should have gotten their 2nd, both of their 5ths, and a high pick next year for Pat. We settled, pure and simple.

The only thing I see out of this is that Philip Buchanon is undoubtedly a better player, even though Surtain is 10 times the player in reality.
 

ckparrothead

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Buchanon's knees are 10 times healthier and for the next two years at least, Buchanon is at least 10 times cheaper....while, as a CB, Buchanon may only be 2/3rds of the player Surtain is RIGHT NOW.

You should know better than to be short-sighted.
 

Boomer

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KB21 said:
I would have rather kept him and franchised him next year than to take this deal.

The proper value for Surtain suggest we should have gotten their 2nd, both of their 5ths, and a high pick next year for Pat. We settled, pure and simple.

The only thing I see out of this is that Philip Buchanon is undoubtedly a better player, even though Surtain is 10 times the player in reality.

Sorry mate but NO-ONE would give that deal up. No-one. We got value on a 29 year old with questionable knees.
 

KB21

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ckparrothead said:
Buchanon's knees are 10 times healthier and for the next two years at least, Buchanon is at least 10 times cheaper....while, as a CB, Buchanon may only be 2/3rds of the player Surtain is RIGHT NOW.

You should know better than to be short-sighted.

Surtain is an All-Pro, while Buchanon has been a career underachiever. How exactly is he 2/3rds the player Patrick is? Buchanon got benched in Oakland, for Pete's sake!! He played OK as a nickle back in his rookie season, but he has never played up to a starter's level. Yet he draws more in a trade than Pat.

There is something bad wrong when a guy who is nothing more than a nickle back gets more in a trade than a guy who is a top 5 player at that position. Hell, I wouldn't trade Will Poole straight up for Philip Buchanon.
 

3P

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It's fairly simple, actually. Value does not equal talent. Surtain is a better talent. Buchannon is a better value.

In the salary cap era, value most certainly doesn't equal talent. That's how you get guys like Dillon and TO going for 2nd round picks.

And another note... you can't let one team's moves dictate value for the other 31 teams. Should "O.K." DE's value be set by what Grant Wistrom got last year? Bad moves by bad GMs doesn't set the value for the league.
 
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