With Surtaion got, who you have at 46? | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

With Surtaion got, who you have at 46?

phinphanphrommi said:
It's fairly simple, actually. Value does not equal talent. Surtain is a better talent. Buchannon is a better value.

In the salary cap era, value most certainly doesn't equal talent. That's how you get guys like Dillon and TO going for 2nd round picks.

And another note... you can't let one team's moves dictate value for the other 31 teams. Should "O.K." DE's value be set by what Grant Wistrom got last year? Bad moves by bad GMs doesn't set the value for the league.
Click to expand...

Whether Casserly made a bad move in dealing what he dealt to get Buchanon is irrelevant, IMO.

The bottom line is this. Oakland got more for Buchanon than Miami got for Surtain. That's the only thing I see, and there is definitely something wrong with that picture.
 
Two names.

Corey Dillon and Terrell Owens. No matter the circumstance history will write that both future hall of famers were grabbed for 2nd round picks. Swapping 5th round picks is a courtesy rather than anything else.
 
Boomer said:
Two names.

Corey Dillon and Terrell Owens. No matter the circumstance history will write that both future hall of famers were grabbed for 2nd round picks. Swapping 5th round picks is a courtesy rather than anything else.
Click to expand...

You can't compare the value of a running back and a wide receiver to the value of a cornerback. Those positions simply don't carry the value of a cornerback.
 
KB21 said:
You can't compare the value of a running back and a wide receiver to the value of a cornerback. Those positions simply don't carry the value of a cornerback.
Click to expand...

I cannot agree with you here. There's a reason they call RB and WR "skill positions." A good running back or wide receiver has more impact on his team's overall success than does a good cornerback.
 
DrAstroZoom said:
I cannot agree with you here. There's a reason they call RB and WR "skill positions." A good running back or wide receiver has more impact on his team's overall success than does a good cornerback.
Click to expand...

I disagree strongly, and most personnel guys do as well. Quarterback, offensive tackle, cornerback, and defensive end are considered the real value positions. Those are the positions that you do whatever it takes to get good players at them. Wide receiver and running back are secondary positions when compared to those positions.

It is much harder to find a shut down cornerback than it is to find a great wide receiver or a great running back. That's why CB holds more value.
 
Boomer said:
Reggie Brown, Chris Spencer, Mark Bradley, Castillo, Marcus Johnson
J.J. Arrington, Eric Shelton, Terrence Murphy, Vernand Morency, Elton Brown
Marion Barber III, Burnett, Patterson, Corey Webster, Bullocks, Tuck?

Good news.
Click to expand...
I bet Saban will be tempted to go LSU.....CB
 
KB21 said:
I disagree strongly, and most personnel guys do as well. Quarterback, offensive tackle, cornerback, and defensive end are considered the real value positions. Those are the positions that you do whatever it takes to get good players at them. Wide receiver and running back are secondary positions when compared to those positions.

It is much harder to find a shut down cornerback than it is to find a great wide receiver or a great running back. That's why CB holds more value.
Click to expand...

I did a little follow-up to see if "most personnel guys" opinions could be quantified on this issue. Recent draft history would seem to support you in regards to RB, but not WR. In the last 10 drafts, there have been 38 1st-round cornerbacks, 31 1st-round runningbacks and 42 1st-round wide receivers.

So I'll buy the consensus on RB (even though I don't personally agree), but I will NOT buy it in terms of WR.

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree at this point.
 
DrAstroZoom said:
I did a little follow-up to see if "most personnel guys" opinions could be quantified on this issue. Recent draft history would seem to support you in regards to RB, but not WR. In the last 10 drafts, there have been 38 1st-round cornerbacks, 31 1st-round runningbacks and 42 1st-round wide receivers.

So I'll buy the consensus on RB (even though I don't personally agree), but I will NOT buy it in terms of WR.

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree at this point.
Click to expand...

http://www.theredzone.org/2005/freeagents/2005tags.asp

Franchise salaries:

Cornerback -- $8,816,000
Receiver -- $7,424,000

The top 5 cornerbacks in the league are worth, on average, approximately $1.4 million more than the top 5 wide receivers on average.
 
KB21 said:
http://www.theredzone.org/2005/freeagents/2005tags.asp

Franchise salaries:

Cornerback -- $8,816,000
Receiver -- $7,424,000

The top 5 cornerbacks in the league are worth, on average, approximately $1.4 million more than the top 5 wide receivers on average.
Click to expand...


According to that logic, cornerbacks are worth more than quarterbacks, and I think you're going to have a hard time selling that to ANYBODY.
 
DrAstroZoom said:
According to that logic, cornerbacks are worth more than quarterbacks, and I think you're going to have a hard time selling that to ANYBODY.
Click to expand...

Now, how is that any harder than trying to convince me that Philip Buchanon has more value than Patrick Surtain?
 
KB21 said:
Now, how is that any harder than trying to convince me that Philip Buchanon has more value than Patrick Surtain?
Click to expand...

Man, you are SO fixated on comparing the two trades.

No-one is trying to say Buchanon is better than Surtain at this moment in time. But when you compare their age, their salaries and their long-term place in the big picture of team structure, their overall value (I know, it's a nebulous concept) is comparable.

Bottom line, you can't compare the two trades with an all-things-being-equal mentality. Because all things aren't for ther teams involved.
 
I'd just like to interject that I love how the premies argue civily...

I love you guys!
 
DrAstroZoom said:
Man, you are SO fixated on comparing the two trades.

No-one is trying to say Buchanon is better than Surtain at this moment in time. But when you compare their age, their salaries and their long-term place in the big picture of team structure, their overall value (I know, it's a nebulous concept) is comparable.

Bottom line, you can't compare the two trades with an all-things-being-equal mentality. Because all things aren't for ther teams involved.
Click to expand...

I know. Things aren't equal. Patrick Surtain is MUCH BETTER, and we gave him away for a song.
 
phinphanphrommi said:
I'd just like to interject that I love how the premies argue civily...

I love you guys!
Click to expand...


I know ... isn't it great? It's weird, though, because I'm not used to debating KB! :eek:
 
Let me add this. If the Buchanaon trqade hadn't happened, we wouldn't have gotten ANYTHING for Surtain, IMO.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom