Yearly Need vs Value Drafting Debate | Page 6 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Yearly Need vs Value Drafting Debate

Nobody has to convince me on Ben Chappell. I've been talking about him as long as I've been talking about Andrew Luck (which is a long time). That guy has a heck of an arm, great accuracy. I think he's the version of Nate Davis that can actually speak, learn a playbook and lead a team...and that's a heck of a player. But goddamn he needs to lose some weight, get quicker.
 
I think his point was, the NFL has already adopted the spread. NFL offenses aren't "pro style" anymore. About 3 out of 5 pass attempts come out of the shotgun nowadays. The short passing game dominates, which is helping to beef up QB passer ratings.

I don't buy this stuff about spread QBs anymore because half of NFL passing plays nowadays are very spread-based.
 
ckparrothead said:
I think his point was, the NFL has already adopted the spread. NFL offenses aren't "pro style" anymore. About 3 out of 5 pass attempts come out of the shotgun nowadays. The short passing game dominates, which is helping to beef up QB passer ratings.

I don't buy this stuff about spread QBs anymore because half of NFL passing plays nowadays are very spread-based.
Click to expand...

yeah...thats what i've come around to also
 
ckparrothead said:
I think his point was, the NFL has already adopted the spread. NFL offenses aren't "pro style" anymore. About 3 out of 5 pass attempts come out of the shotgun nowadays. The short passing game dominates, which is helping to beef up QB passer ratings.

I don't buy this stuff about spread QBs anymore because half of NFL passing plays nowadays are very spread-based.
Click to expand...

Gotchya. I just found it odd to show a clip of Big Ben operating out of a the shotgun in the pros when I was talking about him in college. I've been saying the same thing. Also, as anyone else excited that Newton is working with a guy that worked with Big Ben? If Newton reaches his potential, I see a more athletic Big Ben. Almost like a cross between Rapeman and Vick.
 
I school my excitement on Cam Newton with the simple fact that the odds are against us getting a whack at him at #15 and this regime probably won't trade up and get him.

Ryan Mallett though...his stock is suppressed by character stuff. When you're desperate, character standards are the very FIRST buffer zone to suddenly disappear.

And quite frankly, nowadays I say why not. Mike Vick and Ben Rapistberger are the most fiendish villains in the NFL at the moment and those guys both made the playoffs, and Ben is about to try for his third Super Bowl ring. As long as Ryan Mallett is sticking to snorting a little blow and maybe being a d-ck at restaurants and clubs a la Rapistberger and Moss, I can deal with him...long as he's not forcing himself on women like Big Ben, or having people shot like Mike Vick.
 
ckparrothead said:
I school my excitement on Cam Newton with the simple fact that the odds are against us getting a whack at him at #15 and this regime probably won't trade up and get him.

Ryan Mallett though...his stock is suppressed by character stuff. When you're desperate, character standards are the very FIRST buffer zone to suddenly disappear.

And quite frankly, nowadays I say why not. Mike Vick and Ben Rapistberger are the most fiendish villains in the NFL at the moment and those guys both made the playoffs, and Ben is about to try for his third Super Bowl ring. As long as Ryan Mallett is sticking to snorting a little blow and maybe being a d-ck at restaurants and clubs a la Rapistberger and Moss, I can deal with him...long as he's not forcing himself on women like Big Ben, or having people shot like Mike Vick.
Click to expand...

Almost how some people - myself included to a certain extent - are with fantasy football, some of these guys keep me interested in non-Dolphins games that aren't as interesting in themselves. I tried to watch E. Thomas as much as I could this year. No matter where Newton goes, if he's playing, I'll try to keep an eye out.
 
ckparrothead said:
For the best comparison to Newton I think you'd have to go all the way back to Randall Cunningham, no?
Click to expand...

I don't think so... I think you can go back to Daunte Culpepper as a prospect coming out of UCF for an accurate Cam Newton comparison... except Culpepper was a much more experienced starter.

Culpepper set an NCAA record for completion percentage at the time (completing better than 73% of his passes), yet couldn't read a defense to save his life in the NFL. They're both quite comparable as academic scholars also.

Culpepper was only slightly less of a running threat than Cam Newton, although Culpepper didn't exactly have Gus Malzahn either in Mike Kruczek.

The mental aspect of playing the quarterback position in the NFL is the part Cam Newton has to prove he'll be able to accomplish.
 
TedSlimmJr said:
I don't think so... I think you can go back to Daunte Culpepper as a prospect coming out of UCF for an accurate Cam Newton comparison... except Culpepper was a much more experienced starter.

Culpepper set an NCAA record for completion percentage at the time (completing better than 73% of his passes), yet couldn't read a defense to save his life in the NFL. They're both quite comparable as academic scholars also.

Culpepper was only slightly less of a running threat than Cam Newton, although Culpepper didn't exactly have Gus Malzahn either in Mike Kruczek.

The mental aspect of playing the quarterback position in the NFL is the part Cam Newton has to prove he'll be able to accomplish.
Click to expand...

Couple of things with Culpepper:

Not nearly as quick or fast as Newton. He was no slouch as an athlete, but I don't think he was ever dynamic.

Also, Dante has always come off as slow - to me anyway. When you heard him talk, you thought, 'There's no way this guy can get it - whatever it may be.' Newton has the opposite effect on me.
 
j-off-her-doll said:
Couple of things with Culpepper:

Not nearly as quick or fast as Newton. He was no slouch as an athlete, but I don't think he was ever dynamic.

Also, Dante has always come off as slow - to me anyway. When you heard him talk, you thought, 'There's no way this guy can get it - whatever it may be.' Newton has the opposite effect on me.
Click to expand...


Culpepper had 4.5 speed at 6'4", 255 pounds.... I can promise you Cam Newton won't run better than 4.5...


Anyone that doesn't think Culpepper is an absolute ringer for a Cam Newton comparison just doesn't remember Culpepper as a prospect or ever watched him play... it's that simple.

I remember watching my Crimson Tide lose to Culpepper and UCF back in the day...
 
TedSlimmJr said:
Culpepper had 4.5 speed at 6'4", 255 pounds.... I can promise you Cam Newton won't run better 4.5...


Anyone that doesn't think Culpepper is an absolute ringer for a Cam Newton comparison just doesn't remember Culpepper as a prospect or ever watched him play... it's that simple.

I remember watching my Crimson Tide lose to Culpepper and UCF back in the day...
Click to expand...

It's true that Culpepper came out before I started paying real attention to the draft. But, I remember Culpepper as a young player for the Vikings, and he didn't look nearly as quick as Newton does. Maybe he was as fast or faster in a straight line. Also, I maintain that Newton comes off as much brighter.
 
I agree, though, with Newton it all depends on whether or not he'll pick up the mental aspects of the game. Assuming he's not faster or quicker than Culpepper (I still think he's a good deal quicker), as physical prospect Culpepper is like a much better version of Big Ben (better arm, faster, etc).
 
When Cam Newton is trying to run against NFL defenses, he's going to look a helluva lot slower than he did at Auburn too.... that's just the way it is.

I hate Cam Newton... I don't hate him because I don't like him, I hate him because I DO like him as a prospect.

It would've been a lot easier if he had stayed so I could get another year to look at him. I have more trouble with Cam Newton than any quarterback prospect I can remember...

Cecil Newton might be the one you have to worry about more than Cam to be honest... I'm telling you I know this to be fact. Anyone associated with the Auburn program knows this to be fact.
 
TedSlimmJr said:
You defend him the same way you defend all "dual threat" quarterbacks... you force him to stay in the pocket, read defenses, go through his progressions, and beat you being a pocket passer.

You force him to beat you with his decision making.... force him to make good decision, after good decision, after good decision... Make accurate throw after accurate throw into tight coverage.

You don't rush him with your ends like you do a typical pocket passer... you try to keep contain on him and force him to operate from the pocket.

Rush 3 and drop 8 into coverage if you have to... make him find the holes in zone coverage or check it down.

If he can beat you that way then he just beats you.... but it's a lot harder than they think. Which is why pocket passers are one's playing in superbowls every year and winning Lombardi Trophies.
Click to expand...

Exactly, the defensive lineman must be disciplined and stay in their rush lanes and not let the QB break containment. It's not as much about getting to QB as it is keeping him in the pocket. Mr Slimm, why do think some Dlineman having such a hard time grasping this concept. Example, 3rd and 15. Vick is in the shotgun facing 4 down lineman. Both DE's blast up the field like their rears are on fire and Vick slips out the back door for a big gain. I just sit and shake my head.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom