Zach Overrated: People starting to take notice.

[Krie30511]

I think he WILL prove this theory wrong after this season.... Zach has heart and looks better than I have ever seen him. Just prepare to eat your words, those who doubt

 

[Pink_Dove]

Originally posted by enigmatics

Now Teddi Bruschi is a guy I like to bring up. Now he's not enjoyed as many great seasons as Zach has........but you cannot deny that man is in his prime and simply changes games with his ability to cause turnovers. Zach's a little bit better of a tackler, but Bruschi's ten times better at getting the ball back for his offense whether it be from an int or a fumble........ we've never really seen that out of Zach.

Put Zach in a Pats uniform (cringe) with that 3-4 defense, Crennel as DC, Belichick as HC, protected by T. Washington, K.Traylor or V. Wilfork, with Willie Mcginest and Mike Vrabel by his side, and that Brady led offense chewing time of the clock, and I truly believe T.Bruschetta doesn’t hold a candle to what Zach could achieve.

 

[nyjunc]

Dude, he plays with heart and is good, you don't make all pro by being a fake, get real.

Has he ever been All-Pro? All-Pro is very different from the Pro Bowl, it is a much higher honor and I'm not sure Zach has ever been named All-Pro.

 

[Disgustipate]

Suggesting that Thomas isnt good because some players have a handful more tackles for no or negative yards is shockingly stupid. It's a nice stat to have, but frankly it's completely irrelevant. And why would you go listing weakside linebackers in with middle linebackers? The assignments arent even comparable. Get a clue.

Thomas doesnt make tackles when the game is on the line? Sweet Christmas, man. When is the last time you watched a Dolphins game with Zach in it? How can you sit there and blame defensive losses on a single player? The Dolphins defense has been as consistant as any team on that list, if not more so over the last few years. The run D especially.

I've heard enough noise from half-bright fans who evaluate players based solely on fantasy football stats.

 

[GRYPHONK]

How ridiculous is this thread!! Hey, everyone is entitled to their opinions, but let's get real!! As someone so aptly stated, one doesn't get chosen for the Pro Bowl because they're overrated. Yes, Zack is getting up there, but to this day, he does play with his heart and soul. He wouldn't be as injured as he usually is if he hadn't.

I understand your point here.

But ask Donnie Edwards and the front 7 of the San Diego Chargers last year if the voting for the Pro Bowl is legit.

You have to come to realize that it is still a popularity contest with the Pro Bowl. I mean this is why Michael Vick seems to make it along with others who only get in there by reputation nothing more.

I mean come on, why should it have even been discussed who should have started for the NFC last year? But yet there was a debate between Vick and McNabb.

To me a pro bowl is like getting the 1000 yard rushing season. It is no longer the base for a great season.

I ask again, when has Zack ever led the league in tackles? Some of you throw that argument out there. But what year has he ever led the league? I know he has been close but I don't believe he ever has. Not trying to be an a-hole I just seriously would like to know.

 

[thedayafter]

• To start with there aren't that many "rated" players on the team.... and if you had to pick a player as over-rated from those few rated players ZT would be a logical choice...
• ZT like the Dolphin defense in general seems to put up some nice stats... until the rushing defense stat from 2004.... while these stats are "nice" they haven't proven to be meaningful in past seasons or in "must win" contests.
• ZT is a systems player that "over-achieves" .... maybe even being "rated" as "over-rated" is a compliment of sorts for a player like ZT.
• ZT is not a difference maker in key games.... it's just the way it is.... as much as I love the way ZT plays the game .... he is just below the impact player level.
• ZT deserves the PB's... he is a very solid "regular season" player.
• It's not a bad thing to be "over-rated" when there are maybe only 6-8 people in the world that do the job better than you....

 

[GRYPHONK]

Suggesting that Thomas isnt good because some players have a handful more tackles for no or negative yards is shockingly stupid. It's a nice stat to have, but frankly it's completely irrelevant. And why would you go listing weakside linebackers in with middle linebackers? The assignments arent even comparable. Get a clue.

Thomas doesnt make tackles when the game is on the line? Sweet Christmas, man. When is the last time you watched a Dolphins game with Zach in it? How can you sit there and blame defensive losses on a single player? The Dolphins defense has been as consistant as any team on that list, if not more so over the last few years. The run D especially.

I've heard enough noise from half-bright fans who evaluate players based solely on fantasy football stats.

LOL

I am not the one sitting here blindly praising the guy for his stats. I have given you plenty of perfect examples of how he wasn't there when we needed him to be. I have given examples of how he had a chance to seal the game all he had to do was make a tackle and he couldn't to seal the game.

No one can come up with examples of games he has made the game winning tackle.

I live in this world called reality not fantasy land. I see the truth which is Thomas always fades in the end of the game and he isn't the one who is making the game saving or winning plays.

There's more to Football then stats and Thomas doesn't bring it. Remember, he's the one who needs DT's to truly be effective lol!!!

 

[Dphins4me]

As someone so aptly stated, one doesn't get chosen for the Pro Bowl because they're overrated..

Yes, they do. Alot.

The PB is nothing but a popularity contest. Once you earn your way there then you can go several years based on what you did that one year.


The fact Richmond Webb made it 7 times proves that.

 

[Dphins4me]

ZT is what he is. A hard working solid MLB that brings nothing special to the field or off the field.

He is overrated based on what he gets paid. Zach is getting paid to be special & make special plays. IMO he no longer does that and that is why he is overrated. If ZT got paid 2 million a year then he would not be but, with the coin he is bringing in means he should be a dominate player. No longer the case.

I have read time & time again about how many tackles Zach gets. Well there are players out the who make tackles but do not get the same pub as Zach.

 

[islandah]

• To start with there aren't that many "rated" players on the team.... and if you had to pick a player as over-rated from those few rated players ZT would be a logical choice...
• ZT like the Dolphin defense in general seems to put up some nice stats... until the rushing defense stat from 2004.... while these stats are "nice" they haven't proven to be meaningful in past seasons or in "must win" contests.
• ZT is a systems player that "over-achieves" .... maybe even being "rated" as "over-rated" is a compliment of sorts for a player like ZT.
• ZT is not a difference maker in key games.... it's just the way it is.... as much as I love the way ZT plays the game .... he is just below the impact player level.
• ZT deserves the PB's... he is a very solid "regular season" player.
• It's not a bad thing to be "over-rated" when there are maybe only 6-8 people in the world that do the job better than you....

All good points. I would add:
1. I'm still glad to have him on the team.
2. I'd rather not play against him.
3. The MLB position in general gets overratted, simply because they are (and should be) involved in the majority of plays, while an OLB only gets about 50% as much action.
4. He must be and will be evaluated in relation to his current and future value to the team, vs. cost, vs. trade value. Saban is pretty objective about these things (see Surtain).

 

[blackthought]

Seriously, you need to get a clue. I've never seen someone so sure of his opinion but so oblivious to what he was talking about around here.

If you remember Tommy Hendricks game a few years back when he subbed in for Zach, he did pick up alot of tackles but he also embarassed himself in coverage several times. He made tackles, but the team also ran straight at him.

The idea that Jimmy Johnson and Dave Wannstedt didnt replace Zach with a susposedly better player because Zach was a "superstar" in the fans eyes is particularly idiotic. If what you are claiming is true, if JJ or Wannstedt put a "real" player in Zachs place, that player would look even better and become a superstar. If they apparently knew this, why didnt they do it? You know what? I think you're some sort of fake, no one can put together an argument that full of stupid holes.

Btw...ironically enough, that those "Real" evaluators of talent decided to implement the current Dolphins defense to play to Zach's strengths. For those of you who dont understand, the Dolphins current defense is predicated around Zach being allowed to "scrape", and follow the flow of the play unimpeded. The 3-4 isnt going to mean that he's going to have to take on blockers. If anything, he'll be harder to put a blocker on during Wannstedt/JJ.

People deriding Zach dont seem to understand the game well enough that there are different styles of linebackers that play to different strengthes. I'll tell you right now, and pretty much any GM out there will and has agreed with me here, that there isnt a player in the NFL with better play recognition skills then Zach. When it comes to reading the play and dropping back into a zone or following the flow of the play. no one is better.

Wo, Wo, Wo elite troll. You and your contingency keep talking about Zach making tackles, and being able to read/predict plays. Tommy made tackles and that was my point, you stick a linebacker in their, with a little more athleticism, speed and give him some time to learn the system and you have a bigger impact player. Tommy did embarrass himself; Lord knows you yourself as an elite troll would have too, if it were your first game. So there in lies the truth, Zach has experience with the system and Tommy didn’t, he made a mistake, stop vicariously living your misfit, underachieving life through Zach and get a clue to what my point is, this team could have gotten better if their was ever legit competition pushing Zach.



You’re right the system does funnel things to Zach, reading and recognizing is about internalizing the system, understanding where guys on the defense are being put and scraping to seal predetermined gaps. Kevin Mawae loves Zach and so does Curtis Martin, Cory looked down on Zach a lot times last year, what do you say about that? I don’t contend that Zach isn’t a good player, I wholeheartedly agree with that, but the Pro Bowl has two variables; stats and consistency. Pat Surtain play has always been good, to above average ever since his rookie season. In 2000 Pat had five Int’s, played on a strong defensive team, which had winning success. Why didn’t he go to the Pro Bowl? Because that was his first time posting numbers, the next year would have gotten him a trip to Hawaii if he duplicated those numbers, Pat didn’t. But in 2002 he came up with six, strong interception numbers but no PB. Subsequently he put up seven the next year and has been at the Pro Bowl ever since. His play didn’t get him to the Pro Bowl (he deserved that honor long ago), his numbers/consistency did. In our system a middle linebacker will put up numbers and if he studies hard enough he’ll be consistent. Could we have gotten a better linebacker in that time? Certainly. How many people would take the chance at bringing in competition at the position? Not many. It would go against the rule of if it ain’t broke don’t fix it, it would rub your Pro Bowler wrong, probably ensue a holdout or trade demand and if you were wrong in your talent eval you’d probably lose your job. And we all know if Wanny had made that move and it didn’t work out, surely it would be his last job as head coach anywhere after what he did in Chicago. Brain U. would’ve rolled heads in this defense, but we never had a chance at him. He’s bigger, faster and stronger, put him in that Ravens defense and he’s one of the greatest of all time, so too if he were in Miami. Trotter, Flecther, Vilma, Brookings, Hartwell, all could’ve been ours if the old regime pushed for competition.



Don’t get your panties in a bunch, you can still bow down to Zach when you see him, many a player would’ve been made a star out of this system. Go figure New England, not scared to duplicate talent at various positions and they win a Super Bowl, what are the odds.

 

[Justasportsfan]

I have to disagree about never a gamebreaker. Zach is a player that when he was out Miami's defense suffered. Last year it wasn't as noticable since Pope played really well in his absense.

I will also have to say that over rated does not mean bad. It does not even mean ok. It is just people tend to think the person is better than he is. You can still be great and over rated. Look at Joe Montana.

By gamebreaker, he isn't one to change an outcome of a game. NO teams say" watch out for Zach" . I have yet to hear players say, I hope Zach doesn't hit me" like they do w/ Urlacher and Lewis.


3rd and 5 "run up the middle, Zach will tackle you after getting a first down". Your team missed Zach's sure tackles . Not his ability to create turnovers.


Joe Montana? Are you nuts? Montana may not have had the arms of Marino and Manning but he had the brains of a winner. Again, last night on NFL network most coaches picked Montana as far as a qb they would want on their team. This guy could win big games. Only Shula picked Marino (not surprised)

If Montana was overrated, so is Marino with his records but a not having the ability to win games.

 

[Krie30511]

By gamebreaker, he isn't one to change an outcome of a game. NO teams say" watch out for Zach" . I have yet to hear players say, I hope Zach doesn't hit me" like they do w/ Urlacher and Lewis.


3rd and 5 "run up the middle, Zach will tackle you after getting a first down". Your team missed Zach's sure tackles . Not his ability to create turnovers.


Joe Montana? Are you nuts? Montana may not have had the arms of Marino and Manning but he had the brains of a winner. Again, last night on NFL network most coaches picked Montana as far as a qb they would want on their team. This guy could win big games. Only Shula picked Marino (not surprised)

If Montana was overrated, so is Marino with his records but a not having the ability to win games.

are you kidding..... Teams totally gameplan around him and JT....when you have 3 or even 4 players coming at you almost every play, that shows me that team is cautioned by them

 

[SWS84]

Wo, Wo, Wo elite troll. stop vicariously living your misfit, underachieving life through Zach and get a clue to what my point is, this team could have gotten better if their was ever legit competition pushing Zach.

You can't make your point without name calling and insults?

 

[Justasportsfan]

are you kidding..... Teams totally gameplan around him and JT....when you have 3 or even 4 players coming at you almost every play, that shows me that team is cautioned by them

yeah right. JT yes, Zach no. Zach is an undersized LB that doesn't make rb's fall backwards when het hits or tackles you. He's a sure tackler but not a big hitter.

He's not even close to what Seau was in his prime and already people say he's on his way out. The ability of lb's to make tackles behind the line of scrimmage, make turnovers ,big plays and consistently turn the momentum of a game is what makes a lb'er great. Zach does not do that on a consistent basis. He'll tackle on a consistent basis but that's it.