2017 Kiko Alonso thread.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Sons Of Shula, Sep 20, 2017.

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  1. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    It's not like he's in space on that blitz play and when he tries to rip thru vs the oline man to disengage the guy has his hand in his pad up under his chin. Right after that the balls gone. It's a hold by the olineman but it's a crafty one and more likely never gets seen.
     
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  2. Snoop

    Snoop Well-Known Member

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    PFF isn't the end all be all but I refuse to believe there's some huge discrepancy between what they see/their grades and reality. If they say someone sucks then that player at best is probably average or below average.
     
  3. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Hammered Super Donator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Give or take 20 spots for variance, and it still looks awful.
     
  4. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    They said Chris Clemons was a top 5 safety so pump the brakes chief
     
  5. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Hammered Super Donator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    If a lineman has hands hands inside and has control like he does, it's never going to get called, ever.
     
  6. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    They call dlineman for it and I've seen centers called for it trying to occupy one and get to the 2nd level

    But either way he doesn't get off cause he's held penalty or no penalty and the balls gone a nanosecond later

    It's your grades I just hope people are putting this stuff in perspective and recognizing what is truly sub par or fail and isn't
     
  7. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Hammered Super Donator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    [​IMG]
     
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  8. SCLSU Mud Dogs

    SCLSU Mud Dogs foos-ball is the devil! Donator

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    I haven't had time to read this yet but thanks for putting this together like we were taking about in that other thread.
     
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  9. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    Nope not mad at all. Just don't think you see the forest for the trees for **** frankly.
     
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  10. fishfanmiami

    fishfanmiami Have you seen junior's grades ? Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    A reminder guys. If this goes from a pissing contest into personal attacks I will be deleting posts.

    Keep it civil

    Thanks in advance for your cooperation.
     
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  11. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Hammered Super Donator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Am I being highly critical? Absolutely. But it's nothing different than what a player would hear about from their coach on Tuesday's film review.
     
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  12. BigNastyFish

    BigNastyFish A True Fan

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    I'm just gonna say there's a lot of video of Zach Thomas getting blocked and in many cases overwhelmed by interior OL -- but still Zach made his plays and we all can agree he was standout player for many years.

    And NO -- I'm not "comparing" Zach and Kiko. But let's keep it real and realize LBs don't make every play and at times are going to look "pretty bad" on tape. And beyond that -- the only grade that really matters is the grade the coaching staff assigns because (oh sorry, I am like 100% sure) they know a lot more than we do (in terms of reads, responsibilities, etc.)

    Pertaining to this small video collection of Kiko -- it would certainly appear he was effectively blocked on a number of plays and seeming took some inferior angles etc. But hey -- the opposition is gonna make plays too -- and I don't think anyone here believes Kiko is some kind of dominator. No crap -- he's no Butkus or Lawrence Taylor LOL -- but I think he's at least a functional NFL LB.

    And how many do we have? Like 2? LOL

    My opinion. Of course.
     
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  13. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Hammered Super Donator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I agree and maybe if it would be useful if I put a little more context to the good, bad, and ugly snaps compared to the overall snaps he played. There are also a large number of plays where the he just wasn't involved in the overall play and they were left out. Rightfully so, b/c there is no point in posting a clip where he is in zone on one side of the field and there is a quick pass and tackle or incompletion on the other. But also notice I highlighted him for excellent press coverage on Gates which possibly lead to the Rivers going elsewhere with the ball b/c Gates was locked down. I promised not cherrypick plays and hopefully that was a clear example I am not doing so. I could have easily left that out and no one would have known otherwise.

    Alonso played 58 defensive snap.
    Good - 3
    Bad - 6
    Ugly - 3

    I'm going to refute your last statement. Do the coaches know more overall? Sure. But having a deep understanding of the game, like many around here, I am very aware of proper alignments, proper technique, keys, reads, unit responsibilities/assignments, and positional responsibilities/assignments. If you have questions or are skeptical of any descriptions I provide (more than understandable) simply ask and/or point out your concern and I'll do my best to find factual information and/or resources that back up my breakdowns.
     
  14. royalshank

    royalshank Practice Squad All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I enjoy these posts regardless of who they are about.

    If you tackle your own guy does that count on your stats?

    For the record, I don't hate Kiko though it's hard to fathom just how bad that position group has been for a while now.
     
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  15. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Hammered Super Donator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Thanks. Currently working on a thread that focuses on our defense as a whole. Hope to have it out soon . . . but don't hold me to that; tape study is tedious.
     
  16. royalshank

    royalshank Practice Squad All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Well we appreciate it. It's obviously a lot of work. So thanks for doing it!
     
  17. DolphinDevil28

    DolphinDevil28 I like boobs. Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I wish I had that much free time. That's not a jab at all, I'm serious. I literally wish I had that much free time.
     
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  18. miamiron

    miamiron A True Fan

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    Take your time even if it takes years, We want an accurate report
     
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  19. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Hammered Super Donator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    LOL. It will be out in a few days but will be a season long thread (like this one) for each game breakdown of personnel, alignments, coverages used, and tendencies such as down and distance calls and blitz percentages and usages.
     
  20. Danny

    Danny FinHeaven VIP

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    I have the time but I don't even know how to get those kinds of videos. You need to work from home like I do and you'll have more free time....lol

    Ozzy rules!!
     
  21. mmikel30

    mmikel30 Starter

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    Yes he is ...did you see him fly to the sidelines running by Mike hull to make that one tackle?
     
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  22. TheWozz

    TheWozz FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Thanks SoS for the informative thread. As I wrote last season, your threads on Kiko are interesting. I think most fans overrate him, but I think you underrate him.

    I really wanted to see Kiko within a strong LB corps. While not as high on him as some, I still think he can be effective. I think he needs to be surrounded by guys that can handle the ugly LB work- stack and shed, create a pile, etc. Kiko provides splash plays by shooting gaps, gambling on routes, etc. This style of play also puts him out of position or prone to get washed out at times. But it does result in some turnovers, tackles in the backfield, etc. Not much of a splash in the SD game...

    I really hoped that Timmons and McMillian were going to be able to give that level of play.

    Although I've been critical of Kiko, I believe he is usually a hustle guy...if nothing else he tends to get in the picture in time to adjust his jersey over the pile. I don't recall you criticizing level of effort before. You see a trend or one off on the play you posted?
     
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  23. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Hammered Super Donator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Agree here and it's why I don't think he is a good fit for our scheme. He needs to be in a 3-4, 4-3 Under type that features 2 gap DL that allows him to flow over the top more freely and not have to take blocks head on like is required on our defense.

    For a poor guestimate, Alonso is probably 30/70 in a slack to hustle ratio when it comes to rallying to the ball. Most of the time he is there, but there are very apparant times when he just gives up when facing blocks and allows himslef to be pushed around and driven downfield.
     
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  24. Snoop

    Snoop Well-Known Member

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    Yes, preferably before giving him a new deal with almost $20m guaranteed...
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017
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  25. TheWozz

    TheWozz FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I felt then, and still do, that his extension was more about trying to create a "keep your own" culture of guys that FO and Gase like as the timing made little sense to me. Same with Branch. Think they were trying to send a message that if you come to Miami, be on time and play hard we'll take care of you.

    Just my take, and not advocating it...
     
  26. bradmcnutt13

    bradmcnutt13 A True Fan

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    Is this what people do when they retire?
     
  27. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Hammered Super Donator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    You can do whatever makes you happy. Its a fun hobby for me.
     
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  28. spiketex

    spiketex Kiko, El Bravo 47 - the yappy chihuahua Super Donator Donator

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    SoS - Suggest that you and all the other Kiko haters who want to see him fail, take the time to listen to Coach Gase's press conference today and the praise he gives Alonso. You may be surprised.
    Interesting to note the effort that goes into preparing for every game.
     
  29. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Hammered Super Donator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I'm not interested in coach speak. The film doesn't lie.

    I don't want to see anyone in a Dolphins uniform fail. Knock it off.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
  30. Snoop

    Snoop Well-Known Member

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    I agree...the keep your own mantra is great when we're talking about Wake, Jones, Stills, Landry....Branch and Kiko, not so much.
     
  31. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    He's not a bad football player on tape.
     
  32. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Hammered Super Donator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Correct. Average/below average is a better description.
     
  33. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    you guys can let this guy sell you whatever you want to but I'm just gonna tell you it's not true. Not on tape

    They didn't sign Kiko cause he sucks. They didn't consider moving him from mike in 2016 cause he was the problem they did it cause they had no other options to pair him with short of mike hull after Jenkins got hurt and paysinger in the nickel wasn't a good enough athlete.

    Paysinger by the way is out of the league. Miami has now tried multiple times to upgrade from mike hull who the op tried to sell the board last season was a better option than kiko. The same guy who now Miami has signed an overweight mauluga and traded a 5th round pick for in former bust stephone Anthony rather than play with as a mike.

    Kikos not perfect but he's made more plays and more game changing plays than any lb miamis had in the last 10 plus years combined and they don't grow on trees and they aren't easy to find and it's hard enough to find one solid lb in a draft let alone try to start over and replace all 3 or something.

    Kikos been a plan a for Miami all along. And he still is. And while it's true that he's not as mission critical for Miami as top 5 Timmons he's still a top 10 mission critical as the base and nickel weak and without him miamis in serious trouble.

    With that I'm out of this thread. It needed to be said.
     
  34. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Hammered Super Donator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Then why did Hull take his job at MLB this year? I'll tell you why. He wasn't moved last year from the middle b/c It was said by the coaches and published that they "didn't want to mess with his head". So finally in the offseason they bumped him to the weakside. That definitely doesn't jive with what you're trying to pass off.

    Also, insider info in VIP from 3 coaches and a teammate confirms the issues that Alonso had last year at MLB that I was pointing out all season long. I'm backing my stance with facts and film. You don't have either of those two in your corner.
     
  35. greasyObnoxious

    greasyObnoxious I love lamp Finheaven VIP Donator

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    part of what teammates and coaches confirmed is that Alonso was trying to do too much because he's the one LB we don't have to hide on every snap. let's face it, when your starting LB's consist of Alonso, Hull and Allen, i know which LB i'd ask to do the most.
     
  36. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Hammered Super Donator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Except that's exactly what's been done by moving Alonso to WIll. Mask him as a trail on run flows.

    Conversely, the coaches have chosen Hull to play MLB.

    I don't think Hull is a solid all-around Mike, he's a good 2 down option, but he is better than Alonso in the middle.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017
  37. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Hammered Super Donator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Here's that nickel zone awareness on display. Cover 3 Sling. Who exactly does Alonso think he's passing the TE off to?

     
  38. nick1

    nick1 I am Groot Moderator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Looks like he wants Hull to pick him up. Problem being it looks like Hull has the RB
     
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  39. Danny

    Danny FinHeaven VIP

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    FWIW, you really don't see Gase calling his players out. It seems most of the time when asked about a player he normally says that the player is doing a great job. Kiko for sure has limitations and they did moved him out of the middle for a reason.

    Ozzy rules!!
     
  40. greasyObnoxious

    greasyObnoxious I love lamp Finheaven VIP Donator

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    To me, Alonso is the Will because that's the best fit for him in our D. Its not masking it when youre playing him at his best position. Whether that's good or bad on absolute terms is another discussion.

    The coaches have chosen McMillon as MLB, Hull was simply next man up. Inadequate next but still next. Hull doesnt give you anything as a Will and Hewitt was hurt all pre-season. No brainer to leave Alonso at Will in that scenario IMO and use the back-up MLB to be a two- down player.

    For the sake of the argument, Ill agree that Hull is a better run defender at MLB than Alonso. Coverage-wise it isn't close who's better.
     
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