And the harsh reality is...Jay=Griese!

[BlueFin]

We all know the Jay arguments, who's on who's side, why this why that, etc. But keep this in mind next time you argue for Jay to have another shot.

We can all agree that Brian Griese pretty much flopped as a dolphin right? Even when you factor in the fact that he got here way late being a June 1st cut, it was his first year in the system, and he was coming off an injury we still can all agree he was a monumental failure.

So was Jay.

In Brians first 5 games after replacing Jay he was 74 for 130, with 5 Td's and 10 Turnovers His QB rating was 69.2.

Jay in his first 5 full games back was 79 for 137 with 6 TD's and 10 turnovers. His QB rating for those 5 games was 77.34. He completedthe SAME amount of passes, the only difference being he ran one more in for a TD than Griese. He had 964 yards to Griese's 813.

And the difference is.....VERY tiny. How come some people can call Griese such a flop his first time playing for our team coming off an injury in his first season when he put up SLIGHTLY lower numbers than our 4 years starting "franchise" QB?

NO ONE will sit here and defend Griese, so why do a few people still insist on defending Jay? "those were his 4 worst games" Yeah they probably were. But thsoe were Griese's 5 worst games for us. "look in the past at what Jay has done". Ok, look in the past at what Griese has done....

Fact is, the two guys played nearly identical, yet a few still defend Jay....it's really really sad.....

I agree, good post. Taking into account it being Griese's first year here and his late start and injury, I don't see a world of difference between the two, Jay was able to deal with our poor pass protection better than Griese and that is the major difference last year. Clearly Griese needs a line, and if he had one he is a superior passer to Fiedler.

But your point is a good one regarding how he was considered such a flop and yet some fans don't see the reality of Jay.

 

[BlueFin]

First off, I'm never going to agree with anybody that it was Jay's fault Chambers got his bell rung. It's a part of the game and I've seen that same situation a countless number of times in the NFL in my 20+ years of watching. Secondly, I'm not denying some of those errant passes............. but you deny some of his good ones too. I've seen Jay thread the needle many times. Again, you say crap QB, I say QB struggling to find consistency and stay on the field for a full season. He may never have the most desired long ball, but I'm sorry, not alot of QB's do.

Well then your in denial because Chambers is not the only player Jay has hung out to dry with his high throws that are off target.

 

[BlueFin]

One thing that was obvious about Griese was his style of play did not compliment our style of offence. Griese's numbers as a bronco are uncomparable to fiedlers numbers as a dolphins b/c griese was playing behind a great oline were as jay wasn't. Griese is way to slow to play behind an oline that is/was as bad as ours, other than it was obvious that Griese wasn't the answer at qb thats why we got feeley, Fiedler makes a MUCH better mentor and backup qb(on this team) than Griese and that was basically what came down to it when we had to choose whitch one to keep.

Fiedler a mentor? :roflmao:

 

[Fin-Loco]

First off, I'm never going to agree with anybody that it was Jay's fault Chambers got his bell rung. It's a part of the game and I've seen that same situation a countless number of times in the NFL in my 20+ years of watching. Secondly, I'm not denying some of those errant passes............. but you deny some of his good ones too. I've seen Jay thread the needle many times. Again, you say crap QB, I say QB struggling to find consistency and stay on the field for a full season. He may never have the most desired long ball, but I'm sorry, not alot of QB's do.

Where were his needle threading abilities against NE or Philly last year? Oh I'm sorry about his level of consistency I had a dream last night THAT FIELDER WAS GIVEN FOUR YEARS OF STARTER'S POSITION AT QB TO FIND HIS CONSISTENCY AND TO BE THE REASON WE WIN GAMES NOT RIDE PIGGYBACK ON RICKY OR LAMAR SMITH OR WHOEVER WE HAVE AT QB! Plain and simple: After being the starter for FOUR YEARS HE IS NOT PLAYING AT A LAEVEL COMMESURATE WITH AN NFL STARTING QB! He should be permanently relegated to backup and only touch a football if our starter is hurt. This ridiculous QB battle is taking valuable time away from AJ practicing with the first team. At the end of the day Huizenga and Spielman will not let Fiedler start unless something happens to Feely. Regardless how much time Jay and Wannstedt play "Grab your ankles" together!

 

[Fin-Loco]

Oh I'm sorry about his level of consistency I had a dream last night THAT FIELDER WAS GIVEN FOUR YEARS OF STARTER'S POSITION AT QB TO FIND HIS CONSISTENCY AND TO BE THE REASON WE WIN GAMES NOT RIDE PIGGYBACK ON RICKY OR LAMAR SMITH OR WHOEVER WE HAVE AT QB! QUOTE]


Obviously I know Lamar Smith and Ricky are RB's not QB's. A little heat of the moment typo there!

 

[enigmatics]

Well then your in denial because Chambers is not the only player Jay has hung out to dry with his high throws that are off target.

Who??? Who has he hung out to dry besides Chambers, resulting in a concussion?

Brother please..............I give it a 10 for dramatics, but a zero for factual substance.

 

[Section126]

Fiedler blows.

 

[enigmatics]

Where were his needle threading abilities against NE or Philly last year? Oh I'm sorry about his level of consistency I had a dream last night THAT FIELDER WAS GIVEN FOUR YEARS OF STARTER'S POSITION AT QB TO FIND HIS CONSISTENCY AND TO BE THE REASON WE WIN GAMES NOT RIDE PIGGYBACK ON RICKY OR LAMAR SMITH OR WHOEVER WE HAVE AT QB! Plain and simple: After being the starter for FOUR YEARS HE IS NOT PLAYING AT A LAEVEL COMMESURATE WITH AN NFL STARTING QB! He should be permanently relegated to backup and only touch a football if our starter is hurt. This ridiculous QB battle is taking valuable time away from AJ practicing with the first team. At the end of the day Huizenga and Spielman will not let Fiedler start unless something happens to Feely. Regardless how much time Jay and Wannstedt play "Grab your ankles" together!

Hello!!!!! Mcfly!!!!!!!! Jay didn't lose that Philly game for us. I seem to recall a defense of ours thats supposed to be top 3 putting us into a shootout. C'mon man........see that's what I'm talking about right there.......pinning the blame on Jay for that game is ridiculous....... it's the carryover that I'm talking about for all the blame some of you guys place on this team..........it's always all on Jay........... it's never on anything else and it's frankly the most singleminded perspective.

 

[enigmatics]

You need to play QB before you'd realize that was a HORRIBLE throw by Jay. If you have played QB and still don't know that, then you had terrible coaches.

When going over the middle the QB can NOT throw to a receiver when a defender is already closing in on the receiver! It's common sense! CC can NOT see that hit coming, it's his job to catch the ball, it's Jay's job to place it in a spot where it can be caught SAFELY by the receiver...HIS job. The defender is going his job by making the play, CC did his job by catching the ball, the WR is BLIND to the defender in those situations, having a QB that makes throws that puts your receiver in a situation to take hits like he did in Denver eliminates all trust in the QB. The receiver will become timid and won't go over the middle. And I sure as hell can't blame him for it. Think back to that Denver pass for a minute. No only did Jay make a horrible read in throwing that ball to CC with the denfender already moving in to crack CC, but he ALSO threw a HORRIBLE ball. He threw it high and in a lob, which caused CC to have to go up for the catch at a full sprint. This left him hanging in the open with no protection and a defender running full blast because he sniffed the play out ahead of time.

People that say "it's part of the game" in cirumstances like that are just plain retarded. YES football is a contact sport, but people have responsibilites on the field as well. Defenders can't tackle with their head or they'll break their necks, defensive linemen have to stay low when they roll around a defender or a guard will get under their chin, QB's can NOT make throws that will put their WR's in danger. It's part of the job, Jay screwed up and CC paid for it. Same thing happened the next year with Ricky against the Jets and almost CC again. CC over the middle, exact same situation, luckily CC got his head down before it was taken off and he just took a good lick. Still sat out a few plays. About 2 plays later Jay threw a high floater to Ricky in the backfield that allowed him to get decked causing him to be in and out for the rest of the game.

That's a liability at QB. Don't say it's "part of the game". I can't remember who it was a few years back that got decked on a play just like Chambers got his concussion on. Except he was out for the season, and his 2nd string QB got well deserved heat for the throw.

Where's your bleeding heart then for all the times Jay or Brian got killed behind that line of ours????? I don't see you flailing your grammatical arms on here over those ones. And I'm sure all trust is eliminated in Jay when he's voted a team captain. Excuse me, are you Chris Chambers? Don't speak for the man then.

 

[Greatscott127]

Bleeding heart for jay. Please....... I am going to say this again. Jays' best plays are the screen pass, handoff to ricky and the tuck and run. Also included are the under/over thrown pass to any open rec, the inopprotune pick ( see bullet to TB of the pats in the last meeting) and the circus catch by his rec. ( see chambers, gadsden, mcdrops in traffic going backward)

 

[DolFinatic718]

How does a Qb amass over 3000 yards passing if he throws like you claim? Escpecially with the Wr's group we had. Explain that....

Let's really get under the hood on this monkey for a second enigmatics! Jay can't throw the deep ball. His passes (while occasionally on-target) are usually about a yard off the recievers actual position. This is evidenced when we have all those wowee catches from Chambers, McMike, and in the past Gadsden. Those crazy one handed fully stretched out catches were the only way the recievers could get to them. I'm glad Chambers only got his bell rung that one time in Denver technically he could have been a vegetable by now the way Fiedler throws.

 

[DolFinatic718]

You need to play QB before you'd realize that was a HORRIBLE throw by Jay. If you have played QB and still don't know that, then you had terrible coaches.

When going over the middle the QB can NOT throw to a receiver when a defender is already closing in on the receiver! It's common sense! CC can NOT see that hit coming, it's his job to catch the ball, it's Jay's job to place it in a spot where it can be caught SAFELY by the receiver...HIS job. The defender is going his job by making the play, CC did his job by catching the ball, the WR is BLIND to the defender in those situations, having a QB that makes throws that puts your receiver in a situation to take hits like he did in Denver eliminates all trust in the QB. The receiver will become timid and won't go over the middle. And I sure as hell can't blame him for it. Think back to that Denver pass for a minute. No only did Jay make a horrible read in throwing that ball to CC with the denfender already moving in to crack CC, but he ALSO threw a HORRIBLE ball. He threw it high and in a lob, which caused CC to have to go up for the catch at a full sprint. This left him hanging in the open with no protection and a defender running full blast because he sniffed the play out ahead of time.

People that say "it's part of the game" in cirumstances like that are just plain retarded. YES football is a contact sport, but people have responsibilites on the field as well. Defenders can't tackle with their head or they'll break their necks, defensive linemen have to stay low when they roll around a defender or a guard will get under their chin, QB's can NOT make throws that will put their WR's in danger. It's part of the job, Jay screwed up and CC paid for it. Same thing happened the next year with Ricky against the Jets and almost CC again. CC over the middle, exact same situation, luckily CC got his head down before it was taken off and he just took a good lick. Still sat out a few plays. About 2 plays later Jay threw a high floater to Ricky in the backfield that allowed him to get decked causing him to be in and out for the rest of the game.

That's a liability at QB. Don't say it's "part of the game". I can't remember who it was a few years back that got decked on a play just like Chambers got his concussion on. Except he was out for the season, and his 2nd string QB got well deserved heat for the throw.

This whole argument that that hit was Jay's fault is just stupid. Really. Everytime I hear someone's opinion (because thats all it is) about why it is his fault it just sounds like nonsense. Didn't even read the entire thing.

 

[enigmatics]

How does a Qb amass over 3000 yards passing if he throws like you claim? Escpecially with the Wr's group we had. Explain that....

Yup.........it would have been virtually impossible.........not to mention if he was as bad as everyone makes him out to be we would've had our streak of winning seasons snapped long ago.

All you have to do is look at the money spent on the offensive side of the football to understand the output. This thing is so much more than Jay.

 

[Bowl_Bound]

We all know the Jay arguments, who's on who's side, why this why that, etc. But keep this in mind next time you argue for Jay to have another shot.

We can all agree that Brian Griese pretty much flopped as a dolphin right? Even when you factor in the fact that he got here way late being a June 1st cut, it was his first year in the system, and he was coming off an injury we still can all agree he was a monumental failure.

So was Jay.

In Brians first 5 games after replacing Jay he was 74 for 130, with 5 Td's and 10 Turnovers His QB rating was 69.2.

Jay in his first 5 full games back was 79 for 137 with 6 TD's and 10 turnovers. His QB rating for those 5 games was 77.34. He completedthe SAME amount of passes, the only difference being he ran one more in for a TD than Griese. He had 964 yards to Griese's 813.

And the difference is.....VERY tiny. How come some people can call Griese such a flop his first time playing for our team coming off an injury in his first season when he put up SLIGHTLY lower numbers than our 4 years starting "franchise" QB?

NO ONE will sit here and defend Griese, so why do a few people still insist on defending Jay? "those were his 4 worst games" Yeah they probably were. But thsoe were Griese's 5 worst games for us. "look in the past at what Jay has done". Ok, look in the past at what Griese has done....

Fact is, the two guys played nearly identical, yet a few still defend Jay....it's really really sad.....

Gonna get killed 4 this but I would take BG over jay ANY DAY!!!!! He needed more time and we cut him loose too soon. Why we pamper jay and cut BG loose is beyond me.

 

[Phinzone]

This whole argument that that hit was Jay's fault is just stupid. Really. Everytime I hear someone's opinion (because thats all it is) about why it is his fault it just sounds like nonsense. Didn't even read the entire thing.

Of course you didn't read it. I wouldnt' expect you to. It points out how the pass was Jay's fault. Any person with an iota of football experience knows this to be a fact, he hung chambers out to dry over the middle. There's no way in hell I'd expect you to give the time of day to anything that takes a critical look at Jay's performance. If they poster doesn't claim Jay ****s gold nuggets then his post means nothing right?