Barry Jackson Notes: Future of the Cap, Pre Training Camp Notes, RT and Pennington

[NY8123]

As I watched the events of the off season moves unfold and subsequently checked the contracts and cap numbers as they became public it didn't take me long to realize what a masterful off season Jeff and the front office had. I mean even with Wallace if he doesn't work out the contract can be washed away after 2014 for almost no cap hit.

The off-season moves were something of the sorts of watching Bobby Fisher play a chess match, unless you are on his level the mate in three doesn't become clear until he executes the three move mate.

 

[datruth55]

maybe you're right...but with these undersized lbs and not stout at the poa players there who need to be clean to the ball i think a space clogger like solia has more value...especially when imo those guys are harder to find and take longer to develop...and you won't be getting the opportunity to rush the passer with your front 7 if you don't stop the run...

so to me solia has more value especially when you consider that the idea down the road is jordan supplements your pass rush significantly off the edge...anyways that's just how i see it...i think i can absorb/replace starks pass rush easier than i can solias stoutness vs the run and ability to take on multiple blockers...and odricks not a slouch interior pass rusher either at dt....

when teams started double teaming starks after his fast start in 2012 to make him the focal point of the interior defense his production and play fell off...

I agree. Back when Bates was the DC and he had a top 5 defense we got pressure with the front 4 and no blitzing. Gardner was one of the tackles and he provided pressure and played the run well but the guy that held the line together and got no credit for it because he didn't put up the stats was Tim Bowens. Bowens kept Zach Thomas from getting blocked on plays and allowed him to run free and make plays. I think Soliai is the guy we need to keep.

 

[hoops]

As I watched the events of the off season moves unfold and subsequently checked the contracts and cap numbers as they became public it didn't take me long to realize what a masterful off season Jeff and the front office had. I mean even with Wallace if he doesn't work out the contract can be washed away after 2014 for almost no cap hit. The off-season moves were something of the sorts of watching Bobby Fisher play a chess match, unless you are on his level the mate in three doesn't become clear until he executes the three move mate.

i don't see how this is accurate...if after year 2 you have only eaten into 2/5ths of the signing bonus that still leaves you with 3/5ths of $11 mil on the books and you still have $3 mil guaranteed in 2015 also on the books it would seem to me that you would be eating around $9 mil to get out after 2014 of dead money...provided the numbers south beach has provided are accurate later in this thread...

no one wants to eat near $10 mil to get out in one year...most likely if you get out it's after year 3...provided you don't restructure this thing and keep putting guaranteed money further and further down the line on the books...which is why i'm adamantly against any restructure in year 2 in the first place...

 

[So Be]

i don't see how this is accurate...if after year 2 you have only eaten into 2/5ths of the signing bonus that still leaves you with 3/5ths of $11 mil on the books and you still have $3 mil guaranteed in 2015 also on the books it would seem to me that you would be eating around $9 mil to get out after 2014 of dead money...provided the numbers south beach has provided are accurate later in this thread...

no one wants to eat near $10 mil to get out in one year...most likely if you get out it's after year 3...provided you don't restructure this thing and keep putting guaranteed money further and further down the line on the books...which is why i'm adamantly against any restructure in year 2 in the first place...

I think what NY is saying is that while we would take the $9.6 cap hit, we would also save the $6.85M left on his salary. So, the net hit would be $2.75M

 

[hoops]

I think what NY is saying is that while we would take the $9.6 cap hit, we would also save the $6.85M left on his salary. So, the net hit would be $2.75M

i may be wrong on this but i don't think that's how it works...that $9.6 mil is on your books if you get out after year 2 regardless of the salary you don't pay going forward to my understanding...

i don't think you can offset guaranteed money...my understanding again maybe i'm off but it's what i've always thought is come hell or high water $30 mil is on your books...til you've exhausted the signing bonus and guaranteed moneys in the contract you eat whatevers left whenever you get out

 

[So Be]

i may be wrong on this but i don't think that's how it works...that $9.6 mil is on your books if you get out after year 2 regardless of the salary you don't pay going forward to my understanding...

i don't think you can offset guaranteed money...my understanding again maybe i'm off but it's what i've always thought is come hell or high water $30 mil is on your books...til you've exhausted the signing bonus and guaranteed moneys in the contract you eat whatevers left whenever you get out

True, the team must pay that but, the saved salary does come off the cap. So, as to the cap, your net cost is $2.75M in this case, and the same would be true of his future salaries for 2016 and 17 of Almost $23M.

 

[El Calebra]

If you dont know his name how can you even pretend to know how good or bad of a coach he is?

Don't need to know his name. We know who Pennington is and that is plenty good for me.

 

[NY8123]

I think what NY is saying is that while we would take the $9.6 cap hit, we would also save the $6.M left on his salary. So, the net hit would be $2.M

i may be wrong on this but i don't think that's how it works...that $9.6 mil is on your books if you get out after year 2 regardless of the salary you don't pay going forward to my understanding...

i don't think you can offset guaranteed money...my understanding again maybe I'm off but it's what I've always thought is come hell or high water $30 mil is on your books...til you've exhausted the signing bonus and guaranteed moneys in the contract you eat whatever left whenever you get out

You are both correct in a sort. If Miami cut Wallace after the 2014 season because it didn't work out or whatever the cap hit in 2015 would be 6.6m. Yeah it is still a lot of money but considering the size of the contract it isn't.

Let's just hope Wallace is catching balls like a top 5 receiver and we never have to worry about it.

 

[So Be]

You are both correct in a sort. If Miami cut Wallace after the 2014 season because it didn't work out or whatever the cap hit in 2015 would be 6.6m. Yeah it is still a lot of money but considering the size of the contract it isn't.

Let's just hope Wallace is catching balls like a top 5 receiver and we never have to worry about it.

You lost me NY. If Wallace is gone in two years, we still have to pay $9.6M, and we do not have to pay his salary of $6.85M. Cap accounting shows that at a negative $2.75M for the team in 2015. That's it.

The NFL is like no other business or sport. It's like having two contracts in one. On one hand, you have to pay guaranteed money. On the other, you do not have to pay salaries, which are not guaranteed. One offsets the other in most cases after 2-3 years.

If Wallace will be kept for 3 years, we still pay $4.4 because of his signing bonus but, do not have to pay him his $11.45M salary, and get a cap credit for the balance. Both must be taken into the cap equation.

 

[rent this space]

If he is cut after 2014, they still owe him $6.6 million in signing bonus money, the base salary is guaranteed in 2013 and 2014 only. At that point I don't know if the bonus is still spread over the next 3 years or paid all in that year. If it's still spread out, $2.2 million in dead money isn't that much on a $125 million salary cap. If it is due in one lump, $6.6 isn't good, but not horrible either

 

[hoops]

If he is cut after 2014, they still owe him $6.6 million in signing bonus money, the base salary is guaranteed in 2013 and 2014 only. At that point I don't know if the bonus is still spread over the next 3 years or paid all in that year. If it's still spread out, $2.2 million in dead money isn't that much on a $125 million salary cap. If it is due in one lump, $6.6 isn't good, but not horrible either

what about the $3 mil guaranteed in 2015...that has to be added in as well...

i'm confused about this base salary stuff can be subtracted from the guaranteed money cap hit if you let a guy go before all the guaranteed money in the deal has been paid out...if someone can provide concrete evidence of this i would appreciate it...anyone???

 

[Ruckus45]

Isnt it nice how we can talk about how the FO might keep players and add even more cap space next year instead of who we might have to cut or trade just to keep enough money for rookies?

 

[So Be]

what about the $3 mil guaranteed in 2015...that has to be added in as well...

i'm confused about this base salary stuff can be subtracted from the guaranteed money cap hit if you let a guy go before all the guaranteed money in the deal has been paid out...if someone can provide concrete evidence of this i would appreciate it...anyone???

Here's the deal. ALL guaranteed money has to be paid by team to player, no matter what it is. A singing bonus is paid in full upon the signing of the contract. Player has this money in his bank. However, for cap purposes, the team pro-rats this bonus over the term of the contract. $10M over 5 years is $2M per year. If the player is cut or traded, the NFL accelerates the signing bonus, which means it is charged to that year's cap.

The player's salaries, not guaranteed, are subtracted from the team's cap, as they are not gonna pay it, and do not have to.

As a result, the guaranteed money goes to the player, and is added to the salary cap. However, the salaries do not have to be paid, and are deducted from the team's salary cap.

The guaranteed money is still paid, with the salaries having no effect on that. However, the salaries not guaranteed (something separate) are taken off the cap.

* The $3M guaranteed salary HAS to be paid, and the total would be $9.6M, not 6.6M.

 

[hoops]

Here's the deal. ALL guaranteed money has to be paid by team to player, no matter what it is. A singing bonus is paid in full upon the signing of the contract. Player has this money in his bank. However, for cap purposes, the team pro-rats this bonus over the term of the contract. $10M over 5 years is $2M per year. If the player is cut or traded, the NFL accelerates the signing bonus, which means it is charged to that year's cap.

The player's salaries, not guaranteed, are subtracted from the team's cap, as they are not gonna pay it, and do not have to.

As a result, the guaranteed money goes to the player, and is added to the salary cap. However, the salaries do not have to be paid, and are deducted from the team's salary cap.

The guaranteed money is still paid, with the salaries having no effect on that. However, the salaries not guaranteed (something separate) are taken off the cap.

* The $3M guaranteed salary HAS to be paid, and the total would be $9.6M, not 6.6M.

i get what you are saying but i am struggling with the part not about you don't have to pay the salaries but the part about you can deduct them from the cap hit...if that's the case there wouldn't be many teams in cap hell every year...if it's as simple as i protect myself by giving the player a large salary in the middle years of the contract to offset the large bonus and guaranteed money cap hits...

that seems too simple to work around...

 

[So Be]

i get what you are saying but i am struggling with the part not about you don't have to pay the salaries but the part about you can deduct them from the cap hit...if that's the case there wouldn't be many teams in cap hell every year...if it's as simple as i protect myself by giving the player a large salary in the middle years of the contract to offset the large bonus and guaranteed money cap hits...

that seems to simple to work around...

The salaries are NOT deducted from the guaranteed money, which belongs to the player. They are only deducted from the team's cap because the team does not have to pay them.

For example, a player is due to be paid $10M for this year. $5M is guaranteed, and in the players pocket no matter what happens. The other $5M is not guaranteed. So, you cut that player, and he gets his guaranteed $5M but, the team saves the other $5M off the cap by not having to pay him.

They are NOT directly connected but, do cancel each other out in the bigger salary cap deal.