Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Hayden Fox, Oct 7, 2012.
This whole free agent business is a complete debacle...
Smith, Hartline and Starks should have already been locked up a long time ago for a hell of a lot less than what they're going to end up with.
Bush should have been extended in the off season.
Long is the difficult one and none of the options seem too appealing, his trade value was probably at its peak 2 or 3 weeks ago when a few playoff hopeful teams had their QBs getting the snot kicked out of them. I guess I would grudgingly use my franchise tag here.
Fasano is probably a goner.
Who cares about Clemmons.
Keep Long until the off seaso. regardless how he finishes the year he is highly regarded around the league and is a great LT for a power blocking team. I would tag him 1st and a 3rd, let on to the league he maybe available but that we still value him and want him, albeit at a lower cost. If we can get a 20's selection in first round (maybe Bears) jump on it. We have his replacement already, RT can be had later in the draft. LG is a priority as well as Incognito just is not agile enough in ZBS.
Fasano is the leagues best #2 TE. Unfortunately he is our #1, he plays hard and is tough. I like him hope we can keep him, must find that #1 TE seem threat.
I'm hoping JG adds to the receiving core, maybe gets a year or 2 extension. We need to then spend some dough saved from Long trade on a playmaking WR (maybe a Bowe, Jennings, Cruz, Wallace). Hartline will be resigned, should have been completed this past offseason with Bush, may have lost some '13 offseason dough not signing them earlier.
Starks and Smith are 2 players who either lost alot of weight or the light bulb clicked on during contract year. Its a little scary, but Starks has been a team guy switching positions and body weight. Also he has produced at different positions, he should have made the probowl a few times while here. Smith just maybe finally reaching potential due to lack of experience as a corner. He is finally closing the gap on slants and using his length when playing the receiver, he has deflections and INT's he needs to keep producing. Probably no contract offer for SS24 til just before new league year. We need to draft atleast 3 corners in draft IMO boundary types and a slot type as well.
Clemons is a back up SS, but will want too much money for that role, we can replace him this year, hopefully with a high pick as well. He's fast but not agile and doesnt appear to be a student of the game, although he did finally get that elusive play. Great INT. Croyle has us on track as a secondary to have 20 INT's very nice, but the lack of FF is alarming. He desparately needs more talent on this D, but things point to a positive future with the whole team! Lets go Fins! It's been a happier place since we believe we have a QB! Finally!
This is my biggest Concern, Personally I think Sherman may have an EGO problem in this regard:
This is a mess i cant believe none of these guys have been resigned yet. There is absolutely no way we can give Long a joe thomas like contract absolutely not! His play has slipped and hia body is wearing down we cant waste that type of money on the next tony boselli this team desperately needs playmakers. Kick Martin to LT and sign a solid RT or draft one in like the 3rd round. Let clemons walk too we need an upgrade at FS we can draft Mcdonald from USC or Reid from LSU and before resigning Fasano we need to see if we can find a seem threat TE and if we can then let fasano walk and we can still use mastrud for blocking and hope egnew develops. Lets not waste valuable cap space on servicable players we need to start adding playmakers totake that next step.
Who should we have re-signed in the off season? Hartline was out injured the entire PS. Smith has been inconsistent at best. Long is a big question mark. Bush ad a VG year but, there are age and injury concerns.
I would not sign Long to a top ten QB contract. He just is not worth it. IF he is reasonable, fine. If not, move Martin over to LT, and re-sign Fasano for help. Starks and Soliai have adapted well to the new 4-3. However, Odrick belongs at DT, and is cheap. This one is a very tuff choice.
@southbeach2 i agree i think letting starks walk is an option too, i love starks but we can easily kick odrick inside and use randall and a backup and then maybe sign cliff avril or maybe vernon will be ready to step up or draft jarvis jones. We need to focus on our pass rush and pass defense our run defense might fall a little letting starks go but u know what im not concerned being #1 in run defense because teams are roasting our secondary.
I dont know about those 2 safeties. Reid to me looks more like a strong safety, definitely a very good one but with Jones we need a free safety and Elam looks like the guy. I freakin hate the Gators but that guy has got IT. He plays to take the ball away any means necessary!
I know Philbin doesn't want to add big free agents from the outside via free agency, especially on offense. But if this team's plan after the year at WR is to just re-sign Hartline and draft a kid in rounds 2 or 3 and develop him that is a huge mistake. They need an impact WR badly. Hartline and Bess are good,I'm not knocking them, but they need a big-time guy to open up the offense and take that next step.
Does Joe Philbin have say or no say in FA? We have arguments here that he does not have anything to do with trades and cuts and that it is all up to Ireland. Other times we see articles like this.
I love the people that said Joe is absolved of personnel moves. He is just as involved as many of us figured making moves.
I've wanted Avril for some time but, Vernon and Shelby have flashed. I do hope we re-sing Hartline. I always liked the way he played the game, from ST's to WR, and actually have his jersey from 2010, when he was our best WR over 7 games.
I always liked Smith but, he disappointed up until this year. He was good vs #2 WR's, with VD, and is now stepping up. 36 passes thrown vs him, and SIX times he had a hand on the ball, 2 picks and 4 passes defended by batting the ball away. VG
i think miami has played it right pesonally...most these guys are having career years in their walk years...we have to be careful...that said i don't think miami can let smith walk can't rebuild the cb core in one offseason and he is showing developmental signs feet look better not as off balance when guys cross his face and again he's playing underneath quick hitters much better...
jake long i don't know...if it's gonna be joe thomas money i'd move on...
randy starks i think is in line for $6 mil per or more maybe $7 mil per i'd look into a 3 year $20 mil or so deal there...but if he balks i'd be comfortable moving odrick into his spot and finding a de in the draft to give us some pass rush...i believe in derrick shelbys potential as rotational end and maybe more...
anthony fasano only real in line blocking te we have...durable i keep him...somewhere in the $5 mil range...
reggie bush i either let him walk or franchise him...if he keeps getting hurt we might be able to work out something on a 2 year deal we can work with...
if we can lose carps $3 mil and not pay for it cap wise i do it...i'm tired of the excuses there...
chris clemons i could care less about...he should not be a priority...
hartline $5 mil or less i don't go higher...him and bess with a true #1 could be solid...and this is where i spend my free agency money this offseason...a true wr...a greg jennings...something like that...it's the one piece i'd look to find in free agency and spend considerable on...
use the draft to get a pass rushing de, a fs (unless you move richard marshall there cause i don't like what i see as a boundary cb and we are on the hook for good money...not getting bang for our buck) another wr with a top 3 round pick, a backup mike backer an instinctual guy like k states arthur brown would be nice in the 3rd round...only gonna last that long cause he's undersized but he's right for the 43...and maybe a damn te cause even his own teammate is saying egnew may never do anything...and of course we need to redo the cornerback position by adding a high round pick one there also as corners fly off the board in the draft...someone with size and great tools...
I'm for keeping Fasano and adding another big TE who is a seam threat. Just like we didn't get with Egnew who is seemingly a wasted pick.
Philbin has say but, Ireland has final say. From what I saw on Hard Knocks, Joe was not crazy on the VD trade but, Irish pulled the trigger. In hindsight, I would have preferred to keep VD. JMO
With changes to the staff and philosophy on both sides of the ball it was smart NOT to resign the players mentioned until AFTER the coach and GM saw them actually play in the new system.
Long is the perfect example. He's a great LT in the ground and pound Parcells / Tony system. Just ok so far in the new WCO.
Before this season, I have read here where many thought Hartline to be no better than a #3, and Smith was not VG. Things change, and NOW many ask why we did not extend them earlier.
I'll hold up on the pass rush until I see how Vernon and Shelby develop.
I thought it was alarming that Egnew could not remember plays. Brutal.
As posted, I agree. Even Soliai was a question on moving from NT to DT. I did not think he would be a VG fit but, has proved me wrong. IF he did not fit, you need Odrick or maybe McD to take his place, and Starks has more value.
I'm not an Ireland lover or hater. I believe he has been an average GM but, completely agree with what he has done on contract extensions.
I don't know where these things come from, and how reliable they are. Egnew is a rookie, who never had to block. I give him some time before kicking him to the curb. He has been overshadowed by other rookies contributing immediately. That does not make him a bad pick, so far. Just look at Jerry.
When I read that article with the combination we've only played 4 games
and talk says Sean Smith @ $10 million per season...Has Barry Jackson lost his f****** mind
elam is a beast watched him last night that would be nice we could probably get him in the 2nd-3rd round? either way we need an upgrade over clemons
It shows a lack on football intellect. Should have shown up in pre-draft chalk sessions. Bad pick.
Considering Tannehill Audible on two of the three this is just inaccurate. But most if not all Offensive Coordinators do have EGO problems, you right on that one.
No doubt Smith will get this money. Does he warrant it? Maybe not, but the market might say otherwise. CB's are hard to find.
Smith’s size, speed and steady growth will make him a coveted commodity, considering the value placed on cornerbacks. He has allowed only 41.7 percent of passes thrown against him to be caught – best in the league among cornerbacks targeted at least 30 times.
Looks like another one of our players are #1 in a category. LMAO, patients is such a virtue. Now, I think we can put to bed who's better between Vontae and Smith. Leggo.
All-Pro receiver Larry Fitzgerald sought out Smith after Sunday’s two-interception game to tell him what a good job he’s doing.
Wow, even opposing players have a higher regard for our players than some of us do.
Egnew is a converted WR. Give him a break, and talk to me in a year. He is developing.
There have been reports of Miller having the same problem but, RB's can fit in much easier. Was he a bad pick as well?
Miller is a great pick...an entire round after Egnew.
FYI, Miller has shown something in actual games. Egnew cannot even get active. Egnew sucked in the preseason and looked lost. He is and will be a bust. Missouri TE's fail all the time in the NFL.
It would not surprise me to see Egnew making some plays in the the future of this season. How many other rookies have you had as busts after 4 games in the NFL? C'Mon Man.
We should be patient. However, he has demonstrated nothing in preseason, practice or actual game settings to make me think he is worth anything.
Hark Knocks demonstrated how scared and lost Egnew looked. I could see him getting cut next summer.
It is possible, just maybe, that Philbin and Sherman saw something you did not and chose to keep him for those reasons. I have to think they have seen more of him, and do see some potential.
He's the HEAD COACH! He better have say or this is a train wreck of an organization.
That is fine...and I agree with you. However, it seems if there is a perceived bad FO move, we blame Ireland and absolve Philbin. BOTH should be held accountable.
I agree but Philbin is new so I am giving him a few passes on these bad moves, Ireland has been the one constant for many more years of bad play.
This coming off season is super important to the team- we have a bunch of our own FA that must be decided upon AND we still have to fill a bunch of holes in the team even if we keep all of our important FAs. Personally I do not want Ireland making these decisions yet again especially when it comes time to draft.
Did I read that correctly where it said that Carpenter is making more than Tannehill?
My problem with this line of thinking is we could have traded Long for a first. Are his services for one season worth a first round pick? I'm not saying they aren't necessarily becuase he will help in the development of Tannehill to a degree but we're still giving up a lot.
The same goes for every player on that list, they were all potential draft picks that could turn into nothing in a meaningless season.
egnew and clay probably get one more camp and preseason to show that they can be part of this teams future...if they don't show well i think they're both cut next year...provided miami retains fasano which i think they will find a way to do i don't see miami investing a high round pick in a te...got a couple guys they need to see how they develop for one more camp before we move on...ie clay and egnew...
as for what i think will happen i believe that miami locks up jake long and sean smith long term finds a contract agreement with brian hartline and franchises reggie bush provided he isn't dinged up all year...and probably as i stated prior gets it done with fasano given they really have no choice given what's in house and he's been solid...
i'm guessing starks prices himself out of miami, chris clemons if he signs will be late in the process and for a team friendly # on a short term deal but more likely i think he walks...
miami has to remember also that we have odrick reshad jones paul solia and koa misi coming up in the next few years...in other words be smart
Clemons is gone....Can't let Fasano walk, who are you going to put out there in his place? Charles Clay...no thanks and if you read down in the chatter you can see Egnew can't remember the plays and one Dolphin doesn't think he plays (if at all) in this league long.
We can't give Jake Long a contract similar to Joe Thomas...he's not playing at that level. This is the trickiest situation of them all, we low ball him and his agent will probably get upset and let him test the market if we don't franchise him, we franchise him and he takes up $15 million in cap space...a large chunk of money. Really he's playing like an $8 million a year LT but he'll get more than that...I'm hoping we can keep him for $10 million a season but I'm not feeling good about this situation. I think his agent, if he's doing his job, will try to milk everyone out of us that he can.
Bush I would sign to an incentive based contract...escalators in games played, yards from scrimmage, pro bowl selection, etc. If he misses games he won't get the yards most likely and he'll end up playing dirt cheap.
Hartline may be the cheapest re-sign. He loves it here, Tannehill likes throwing to him, he's finally in an offense and has a QB that takes advantage of the things he does best. This is where he wants to be and I think a $5 million/year contract is not unreasonable. If he scored more TDs I would say more but even bad #1 WRs get 6 TDs in a season and Hartline's career high came in his rookie season and it was only 3 TDs. We need a WR that can win in the red zone and that's not Hartline or Bess...as good as both of them have been playing.
Starks, I've been saying since training camp, needs to be re-signed. Some of you want him to walk (don't make me pull up the posts cause they're out there). This guy is only 28, been one of the most consistent DT we've had since he signed as a free agent and has been part of a DL that is shutting down the run week in and week out. We don't let someone like him walk.
Smith is playing better than ever. I've been on this guy about his play for a long time and have been mostly dissatisfied. This year he's balling out...I'm worried that it may only be because of his contract year but it's a risk we have to take because we're thin at CB. I just hope if we give this kid a new contract he continues to get better. I also think Kevin Coyle has a lot to do with his development as well as Nolan Carroll's (who's a free agent next year and we might want to get him re-signed while the value is cheap).
According to the chatter we'll have 36 players under contract....we re-sign these 5 guys and it's 41 with roughly $15 million left in cap space. $5 million of that will go to the 9 rookies in the class. Realistically 5 of the 9 rookies will be worth anything but most likely all of them stick on the roster bringing it up to 50 players....that should give us roughly $10 million to spend on 3 free agents. That's maybe one big name free agents and two 2nd tier free agents.
i don't see how we are gonna sign all these guys and after the rookie cap allocation is accounted for have $30 mil to spend...would be nice but i don't see it...i see after we resign our key free agents room for one big splash piece...and i'm hoping like heck it's greg jennings
You're right. For some reason I thought it was $71 million in cap space next year but it's $50 million. We got enough to sign one big free agent and that's it.