Better NFL Career..RT or Johnny Football?

[russianbear]

Most people don't understand how talented Manziel is as a passer. They think his advocates are envisioning him running around the football field like his 2012 season. Manziel will do his heavy lifting from the pocket, but he gives you that quality that Big Ben, Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, and Andrew Luck have - the ability to extend the play when things break down. He's not going to lose that at the next level. He has to limit the damage he takes, but he's not going to be running much read/option in the NFL. I think it was a front office guy for Dallas said (something along the lines of) it's like he has eyeballs in every corner of his head. You can't teach that.

he has great intangibles, but don't for one second try to tell me he will do any heavy lifting from the pocket. he's not a pocket passer, he has shown that in his college career. I think he can win at the next level, but I don't think it's very likely at all he becomes an elite qb.

he's a little short, just over 200 lbs, and isn't a very good pocket passer. He has had a great career but anyone expecting the kind of success he had to transition to the next level is fooling themselves.

 

[truedolfan57]

as said before, i think it depends on what team he lands on. If he's on a solid team, kind of like how wilson fell into place in seattle, Johnny could be good, or good enough to win games. but if he falls to a team like the Jets, he could be geno smith 2.0, just a little better.

 

[tcdrover]

that guy is a career back-up or a relief type QB like Kordell stewart was

He isn't as fast or tough as Vick was.

He will get seriously 'dinged' before mid season if he is starting.

 

[Digital]

But Johnny seems to already have that "testicular fortitude," something that RT has yet to display....

Yeh right. Talk to me in 5 years after the injuries have caught up with him and he's talked about in the same WY as Vick, Vincent Young, Duane Culpepper, and all the other running QB'S whose careers are cut short because of injuries. How many complete seasons has Vick played? How great was Culpepper after his knee started to give him trouble?

 

[finjim]

If you keep Manziel in the pocket, he is well below average.

One trick pony.

 

[finjim]

People will forever believe these hype stories... Manziel is the next Tebow. I see nothing in his game that tells me he's ready to be an NFL QB. He'll be gone in a few years..

RT will have a pretty good career. He's built for it and has the arm to back it up.

Exactly, he reminds me of Tebow, minus all the praying and virginity.

 

[PPPP]

The draft as a whole is a crapshoot. Any said player can succeed and any said player can bust,

This is incorrect. If the draft as a whole were a crapshoot, then there would be equal % starters coming from each round. It's not a crapshoot, since the 1st and 2nd rounds have more starters than the 7th, for example.

There's no science to it there's no formula to find nothing but elite players. I'm the biggest Watkins fan and I see a elite WR, but that doesn't mean he's gonna become one. Clowney is a freak of nature he could bust. Manziel can flop too.

Of course there is a science. The best scouts do pretty well, which is why teams find so many starters and All Pros in the 1st round. Just because you can list some possible exceptions doesn't mean the entire concept of finding good players is a crapshoot.

Just because a kid was successful in the collegiate ranks has no barring on his success in the pros.

Yes, it does have bearing. Scouts use collegiate performance as their #1 indicator for pro performance.

Once they get to the pros they have to continue to learn and grow, if they don't they fail.

This goes without saying. Also, non-sequitur

 

[Digital]

Most people don't understand how talented Manziel is as a passer. They think his advocates are envisioning him running around the football field like his 2012 season. Manziel will do his heavy lifting from the pocket, but he gives you that quality that Big Ben, Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, and Andrew Luck have - the ability to extend the play when things break down. He's not going to lose that at the next level. He has to limit the damage he takes, but he's not going to be running much read/option in the NFL. I think it was a front office guy for Dallas said (something along the lines of) it's like he has eyeballs in every corner of his head. You can't teach that.

I'm one of those people who doesn't rate Manziel as a passer. If he becomes a pocket passer he needs to dramatically improve his accuracy. Just because the receiver catches the ball doesn't mean it was in the right spot.

He lacks arm strength to throw the deep outs. He needs time to to wind up for the 9 routes.

Physically he is short and skinny. Those are not great traits for Pocket passers. But, he does have good peripheral vision and quickness in the pocket which will serve him well.

He needs to mold his game after Russell Wilson and become a roll out passer. For his sake, I hope he gets a phenomenal run game and defense like Wilson and learns to become as accurate as Wilson ... but that is a big ask.

 

[GasPed]

I'm one of those people who doesn't rate Manziel as a passer. If he becomes a pocket passer he needs to dramatically improve his accuracy. Just because the receiver catches the ball doesn't mean it was in the right spot.

He lacks arm strength to throw the deep outs. He needs time to to wind up for the 9 routes.

Physically he is short and skinny. Those are not great traits for Pocket passers. But, he does have good peripheral vision and quickness in the pocket which will serve him well.

He needs to mold his game after Russell Wilson and become a roll out passer. For his sake, I hope he gets a phenomenal run game and defense like Wilson and learns to become as accurate as Wilson ... but that is a big ask.

The only way Manziel will be able to function in the pocket at his size is with an accurate, quick release and great footwork/pocket presence. He has the ability to have great footwork and pocket presence, but I don't see the arm stuff at this point. And without the arm, well, you're basically a quicker but smaller Tim Tebow.

 

[j-off-her-doll]

When you get a chance, look at Manziel's numbers vs ranked opponents and then look at Tannehill's. Good for a laugh.

 

[Fin Thirteen]

I'm one of those people who doesn't rate Manziel as a passer. If he becomes a pocket passer he needs to dramatically improve his accuracy. Just because the receiver catches the ball doesn't mean it was in the right spot.

He lacks arm strength to throw the deep outs. He needs time to to wind up for the 9 routes.

Physically he is short and skinny. Those are not great traits for Pocket passers. But, he does have good peripheral vision and quickness in the pocket which will serve him well.

He needs to mold his game after Russell Wilson and become a roll out passer. For his sake, I hope he gets a phenomenal run game and defense like Wilson and learns to become as accurate as Wilson ... but that is a big ask.

Fully agree. Though I don't think you can extrapolate Wilson's success and say that Manziel - at his size and with his skillset - can be a SB-winning QB. Wilson's attributes are leagues different from Manziel's and it's those attributes (leadership, work ethic, vision, arm strength, accuracy, read option ability) that has brought the little guy success. Whereas WIlson hasn't had to add to his skillset in a huge way to be successful in the pros, Manziel has a big body of work to get through to round himself out as a QB and my first question would be "does he have the work ethic to do that?"