Boomer - Cutler a Stretch @ 15?

[BlueFin]

A. Bluefin what the Hell did you say
B.Jay Cutler is Better than Omar jacobs in my opinion
c.im not lost just dont like to be disrespected and then not responded to

What the hell did I say, can't you read my post? I also quoted you, so you should know what I was replying too.

 

[Motion]

Non the less he still went to a very small school

That wasn't the point, we were debating the importance of the senior bowl practices as the relate to the scouting process.

 

[Finfanforever]

Sorry Pete, but the week of practices are commonly known as the most important part of the scouting process. The game is irrelevant, but the morning and afternoon practices can put a guy up 2 rounds or down 2.

Thank you Boomer! This ridiculous, un-founded agrument could have went on forever! I still think fishypete will disagree with you. He's notorious for not admitting when he's WRONG!!!!!

 

[caneaddict]

Blue....Is there vast differences in the way scouts and headcoaches today look at players from ALL schools than when Shula drafted Offerdahl? You bet there is....how many small school players had a chance 30-40 years ago...to make it in the NFL....not many. Rice came from a small school....yet how many teams passed over him...and were wrong.
Chad Johnson way down the scale? The Cousin of Keyshawn and Samari Rolle...and he was invisible...right. Chad Johnson average 22 yd a reception in his last season...but he was down the scale....an unknown.

Many of the guys that move up the boards after the senior bowl were known commodities. Today pretty much everyone is known. However, what you do at the Senior Bowl DOES affect draft position. It's not seen seperately from a college career but as part of it. So, no, some guy can't show up to the senior bowl after playing like doo doo his whole career and become the 1st overall pick.

But, players draft position can certainly move up or down alot based on their performance. A top 15 pick can move 5-10 picks. A 4th rounder can move up to the 2nd or drop out all together.

McNabb probably wouldn't have been picked as high were it not for the Senior Bowl. He would have still gone top 10 but probably not top 5.

Last year, Matt Jones didn't drop a pass all week and it helped show NFL teams that he has excellent hands. It probably moved him up from the mid 2nd to mid 1st.

 

[fishypete]

Pete, every year players improve their stock at Senior Bowl Week, while others hurt themselves, this is no secret, are you really not aware of that?

And yes, in a very very deep WR draft, Chad Johnson jumped above the likes of Chris Chambers, I remember that senior bowl and corresponding draft very well Pete.

Blue....Oregon State....throws the football alot more than Wisconsin...yet Chad was rated the same as Chambers as per Kiper's book...both at 9.1, Both were selected in the second round. The reason why Chambers didn't get selected in the first round was because Wisconsin was a known running team and teams didn't have as much knowledge on Chambers as they would like. If Chambers played for Oregon State....do you have any doubts...he would have been a first round pick?

 

[BlueFin]

Another example last year was the quarterback out of Arkansas Matt Jones, he proved enough potential as a wideout too Jacksonville at the Senior Bowl week to get drafted in the first round.

 

[Finfanforever]

Caneaddict are you sure???

Many of the guys that move up the boards after the senior bowl were known commodities. Today pretty much everyone is known. However, what you do at the Senior Bowl DOES affect draft position. It's not seen seperately from a college career but as part of it. So, no, some guy can't show up to the senior bowl after playing like doo doo his whole career and become the 1st overall pick.

But, players draft position can certainly move up or down alot based on their performance. A top 15 pick can move 5-10 picks. A 4th rounder can move up to the 2nd or drop out all together.

McNabb probably wouldn't have been picked as high were it not for the Senior Bowl. He would have still gone top 10 but probably not top 5.

Last year, Matt Jones didn't drop a pass all week and it helped show NFL teams that he has excellent hands. It probably moved him up from the mid 2nd to mid 1st.

...But Fishypete says...they "don't give a hoot"...surely you must be wrong! Fishypete knows EVERYTHING!:eek:

 

[Alex44]

The senior bowl is important but its not everything

It can improve your stock or make your stock fall, but if you had a terrible year someone isnt gonna take you because you did well 1 week out of the year

 

[BlueFin]

Blue....Oregon State....throws the football alot more than Wisconsin...yet Chad was rated the same as Chambers as per Kiper's book...both at 9.1, Both were selected in the second round. The reason why Chambers didn't get selected in the first round was because Wisconsin was a known running team and teams didn't have as much knowledge on Chambers as they would like. If Chambers played for Oregon State....do you have any doubts...he would have been a first round pick?

Pete,

1) Your whole argument is ridiculous regarding Senior Bowl week.

2) I remember Chad Johnson and that Senior Bowl week very well, he greatly improved his stock in that week, none of your rre-writing of history will change that.

 

[fishypete]

Sorry Pete, but the week of practices are commonly known as the most important part of the scouting process. The game is irrelevant, but the morning and afternoon practices can put a guy up 2 rounds or down 2.

Boomer...in these days....fans know as much about players as scouts and headcoaches do....there's very few secrets out there. It's not like it was 30 years ago....can players rise and fall...sure....but they are known...to start with.
As we write....Saban and Mueller know what players that already fit what they are looking for....they already have a list of 10 players in each position....they use the games and practices to fine tune that list, thats all. And thats what Saban said....they will meet with the scouts a couple times again...before the draft....but he and Mueller will make the last final decisions just before the draft.

 

[Mike13]

good read I think we can take him at 15.

 

[BlueFin]

Here you go Pete.....read on down to the section on Chad Johnson:

http://espn.go.com/melkiper/s/2001/0122/1033538.html

Chad Johnson, Oregon St.

-- In my opinion, he was clearly the most impressive on the field at the Senior Bowl practices. The 6-foot-3, 189-pounder came to Mobile focused and ready to put on a show. He looked like a featured wide-out in the NFL, with his sub-4.4 speed, superior natural pass receiving skills and incredible body control. By the way, his cousin, Keyshawn Johnson, was in Mobile late in the week to cheer him on. If there was ever any doubt as to whether Johnson was an elite prospect, it was answered in Mobile. This young man stole the show, moving up possibly as high as the Top 15 of round one.

 

[Finfanforever]

The senior bowl is important but its not everything

It can improve your stock or make your stock fall, but if you had a terrible year someone isnt gonna take you because you did well 1 week out of the year

Alex22,

That's what I said...then you guessed it, Fishypete said "they don't give a hoot"

PS: Lienhart will be a great pro...and the Texans (if they have #1 pick and/or they don't trade down...it will take a block-buster deal) will draft Reggie Bush!

There...I said it! :D

 

[Canadi-Phin]

I'm no expert but I remember Gruden and Turner talking about how much they loved the practie part of the Senior Bowl. They got to put guys through their drills for an entire week and see how they come to practice everyday. The game has had some stars in it over the years. Not sure if the game helps or if the practice is the big part. All the coaches get to watch these guys under a microscope for a week instead of just one day at the combine or pro day, or the day they bring the player in to practice in front of them.

 

[Motion]

Boomer...in these days....fans know as much about players as scouts and headcoaches do....there's very few secrets out there. It's not like it was 30 years ago....can players rise and fall...sure....but they are known...to start with.
As we write....Saban and Mueller know what players that already fit what they are looking for....they already have a list of 10 players in each position....they use the games and practices to fine tune that list, thats all. And thats what Saban said....they will meet with the scouts a couple times again...before the draft....but he and Mueller will make the last final decisions just before the draft.

Now your starting to smooth out your previous statment. Of course every Head Caoch and GM have a list going into the post season events, but what they see at the senior bowl practices and combine greatly affect that list. To say they are meaningless as you did is whats ridiculous.