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Brian Hartline

When discussing any FA of ours this year, I will always consider what the HC says about his philosophy and his past transactions. philbins philosophy in FA is not to sign FA from other teams (i hope he at least lets Ireland get Wallace) and he likes to keep his own who are worthy of keeping due to hard work, understanding his offense and being a huge contributor (thats a biggie), and having the mental makeup (no alcoholics or headcases need apply). Basically, you do what we ask of you, you get rewarded.

Its how you build a family atmosphere. Philbin is big on that stuff. A group of guys who rely on each other and support each other and look out for each other. Its called a team.
 
I hope you are right about Matthews being the #3 or #4 receiver next year. I guess I have not seen enough of him to say he's going to be a lock to make next year's team.

in preseason, I was DVR the games and I would watch for when this kid came in. Even if he wasnt catching a ball, I was watching his routes (as much as possibly could), and blocking, ect. I also paid attention to him briefly in Hard knocks with his small cameo when players were being cut. He has a good attitude.

I really stick my neck out on some players. IMO, you either are a football player or you are not. Kind of like marino saying you can either throw it, or you can not.

When we drafted Long and people questioned his ability to play LT, I disagreed. When we drafted pouncey, I knew we had a guy who had incredible athleticism while being a tough OL (not too difficult since his twin bro is a PB). Its just a gut feeling.

I never considered Sean Smith a football player. At least not full time. He does not have the mental makeup unless he is pushed/challenged. Once he is not challenged, he drops off in toughness, not to mentioned he gets turned around like a lost puppy.
 
I hope you are right about Matthews being the #3 or #4 receiver next year. I guess I have not seen enough of him to say he's going to be a lock to make next year's team.
If matthews is a 3 what is our receiving core? No way has he shown he is better than hartline/bess yet.
 
We need a WR that can track a ball down in the air. Hartline cannot do that at all. He would have more TDs if he would've adjusted his routes in the N.E. and Bills games. We need to go after Greg Jennings in FA and draft a WR early in the draft. Hartline is no better than a #3 and we desperately need upgrades. I like hartline but he doesn't score and that's why you pay WRs.
 
We need a WR that can track a ball down in the air. Hartline cannot do that at all. He would have more TDs if he would've adjusted his routes in the N.E. and Bills games. We need to go after Greg Jennings in FA and draft a WR early in the draft. Hartline is no better than a #3 and we desperately need upgrades. I like hartline but he doesn't score and that's why you pay WRs.
Can Jennings stay healthy enough to make a change in Miami?
 
We need a WR that can track a ball down in the air. Hartline cannot do that at all. He would have more TDs if he would've adjusted his routes in the N.E. and Bills games. We need to go after Greg Jennings in FA and draft a WR early in the draft. Hartline is no better than a #3 and we desperately need upgrades. I like hartline but he doesn't score and that's why you pay WRs.

Oh, is that the only quality a good WR needs? Hartline is tough, has good hands, runs excellent routes, is quick, and extremely reliable. I don't think anyone here thinks he should be a #1 WR, but he has definitely earned another year and I think would make a great #2 to work in conjunction with a strong #1. All these calls for him to not be resigned are completely assanine and defy basic logic. You don't have to cut hartline to bring in more talent. As others have noted, we did that before with Welker and he went on to build an amazing career. Keep Hartline, draft or bring in a solid #1 and build from there.
 
We need help at wr so release our best wr. Makes sense, finheaven sense.

It does. You go and get a better one out in free agency to replace him and draft one early on.

---------- Post added at 11:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:54 PM ----------

Wallace, 8TDs, 836yds, 13.1y/c 64catches .. and that's with Brown catching 765yds, 64 catches, Sanders 598yds, 42catches and Heath Miller 816yds, 71 catches diverting the defense's attention

Hartline: 1014yds, 69 catches, 14.7 yds/catch with only Bess 778 yds diverting attention.

When you think about it, what a normally #2 or #3 WR has accomplished with a rookie QB and drawing double coverage in most passing situations, it's not all that less impressive than what Wallace has done with the benefit of the other passing threats, despite Wallace's 8TDs



Are you really trying to argue that Brian Hartline is a better receiver than Mike Wallace?

Dude, Wake up.
 
It does. You go and get a better one out in free agency to replace him and draft one early on.

---------- Post added at 11:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:54 PM ----------



Are you really trying to argue that Brian Hartline is a better receiver than Mike Wallace?

Dude, Wake up.

I think he's trying to say that given the talent of the teams around them that Wallace SHOULD have had more yardage and a better ypc average (especially considering his only real trait is being a deep threat) than Hartline. Wallace is also a pretty one dimensional receiver, he will burn you deep. However, not a big fan of going over the middle or a YAC guy when he's being touched (which is a concern people keep saying about Hartline).
 
It does. You go and get a better one out in free agency to replace him and draft one early on.

---------- Post added at 11:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:54 PM ----------



Are you really trying to argue that Brian Hartline is a better receiver than Mike Wallace?

Dude, Wake up.

No you don't get rid of a hard working player. You keep him and still get that "stud" FA and draft.

You must be a little younger to not understand what it means to work hard and get rewarded for it.
 
Goodness Hartline is a keeper without a shadow of doubt. What he has done this year with so little off season and a rookie QB has been fantastic. We need quality depth at WR and getting a better WR than Hartline means you keep Hartline to develop a deeper receiving core.
Rishard I'm quite excited about, I can't ever see him being a No 1 but for a 7th round pick he could be a quality 4th receiver option.
 
Goodness Hartline is a keeper without a shadow of doubt. What he has done this year with so little off season and a rookie QB has been fantastic. We need quality depth at WR and getting a better WR than Hartline means you keep Hartline to develop a deeper receiving core.
Rishard I'm quite excited about, I can't ever see him being a No 1 but for a 7th round pick he could be a quality 4th receiver option.


It all comes down to his contract . There are no keep at any cost free agents on this roster and we dont need to pay good talent great money.
 
This Hartline love/hate always seems silly to me. I've liked this kid since day 1. He has some ability, a little size, more speed than he's given credit for, good route running and decent hands. He is the very definition of a solid receiver and most definitely a keeper. But, this talk of him being a #1 WR is just delusional homerism. Hartline is a competent WR who has been thrust into the #1 spot because our WR talent cupboard is BARE.

Bess is a subpar WR people ... no size, no speed, no physicality, no shiftiness. He is a guy with some quickness, good route running and good hands. Those are not hard to find. Bess simply doesn't have the physical skills to be effective anywhere except the slot. His slowness means he can be blanketed by a single CB at all times without fear of going the distance. His lack of size coupled with that slowness means only a perfect pass and outstanding catch will be a completion of more than 20 yards. He can get a little RAC, but he's not a big play threat in the least. I'd rather use a TE for the routes Bess runs because they punish tacklers and have a lot more play diversity. Between the Finheaven darling Bess and the lightning rod Hartline, it's no contest, Hartline is better, more versatile, and the only one that has a shot of making a good WR corps, IMHO.

As for Matthews, I like him. I liked him when we drafted him, and I was one of those people singing his praises in pre-season. To me, he's a legit WR with some power, some size, some speed, some quickness and a nice blend of determination and physical skills to be developed into one of our top 4 guys. But make no mistake about it, he has neither elite speed nor huge size. He must be a combo WR, because he's not a mismatch that strikes fear into the defense over the top or in the red zone. If he develops he'll be just a nice WR when it's all said and done ... but we need more good WR's.

Our WR corps needs a #1 deep threat to play the X (guys like Justin Hunter or Cordarrelle Patterson would be my choice), a quick guy with speed to play the Y (we need an upgrade of Bess), and one more guy with speed to rotate in at the X and Z. That's 3 new WR's. Hartline is a good 4th in that group and someone we'd want to keep ... but he's not a #1. Matthews should be kept and developed, but he hasn't proven enough to be guaranteed a spot if/when we tear down and rebuild this WR corps in the offseason.

The rest of the league knows Hartline is decent but not great. So does Hartline. Bad GM's routinely overpay for WR's that they overrate. We see it every year. Those WR's careers crater and eventually moving on is reflected on as a bad move for the WR too. I think Hartline is smart enough to realize he has a nice niche here in Miami with an excellent opportunity to build a good, solid, long career. Or he could take the Bad GM's money and get lost in the mire of a horrid personnel situation by a bad GM, losing team with a bad locker room and next FA cycle have to be explaining how the train wreck in the passing game and locker room unrest had nothing to do with him ... and hope the next GM that takes a chance on an old possession WR from a bad team is in a second-chance giving mood.
 
This Hartline love/hate always seems silly to me. I've liked this kid since day 1. He has some ability, a little size, more speed than he's given credit for, good route running and decent hands. He is the very definition of a solid receiver and most definitely a keeper. But, this talk of him being a #1 WR is just delusional homerism. Hartline is a competent WR who has been thrust into the #1 spot because our WR talent cupboard is BARE.

Bess is a subpar WR people ... no size, no speed, no physicality, no shiftiness. He is a guy with some quickness, good route running and good hands. Those are not hard to find. Bess simply doesn't have the physical skills to be effective anywhere except the slot. His slowness means he can be blanketed by a single CB at all times without fear of going the distance. His lack of size coupled with that slowness means only a perfect pass and outstanding catch will be a completion of more than 20 yards. He can get a little RAC, but he's not a big play threat in the least. I'd rather use a TE for the routes Bess runs because they punish tacklers and have a lot more play diversity. Between the Finheaven darling Bess and the lightning rod Hartline, it's no contest, Hartline is better, more versatile, and the only one that has a shot of making a good WR corps, IMHO.

As for Matthews, I like him. I liked him when we drafted him, and I was one of those people singing his praises in pre-season. To me, he's a legit WR with some power, some size, some speed, some quickness and a nice blend of determination and physical skills to be developed into one of our top 4 guys. But make no mistake about it, he has neither elite speed nor huge size. He must be a combo WR, because he's not a mismatch that strikes fear into the defense over the top or in the red zone. If he develops he'll be just a nice WR when it's all said and done ... but we need more good WR's.

Our WR corps needs a #1 deep threat to play the X (guys like Justin Hunter or Cordarrelle Patterson would be my choice), a quick guy with speed to play the Y (we need an upgrade of Bess), and one more guy with speed to rotate in at the X and Z. That's 3 new WR's. Hartline is a good 4th in that group and someone we'd want to keep ... but he's not a #1. Matthews should be kept and developed, but he hasn't proven enough to be guaranteed a spot if/when we tear down and rebuild this WR corps in the offseason.

The rest of the league knows Hartline is decent but not great. So does Hartline. Bad GM's routinely overpay for WR's that they overrate. We see it every year. Those WR's careers crater and eventually moving on is reflected on as a bad move for the WR too. I think Hartline is smart enough to realize he has a nice niche here in Miami with an excellent opportunity to build a good, solid, long career. Or he could take the Bad GM's money and get lost in the mire of a horrid personnel situation by a bad GM, losing team with a bad locker room and next FA cycle have to be explaining how the train wreck in the passing game and locker room unrest had nothing to do with him ... and hope the next GM that takes a chance on an old possession WR from a bad team is in a second-chance giving mood.

Not saying your completely off your meds, But very few teams have that
Ideal 1-4 receiving group.

I will state for
 
If we arent honest about Mike Wallace as a receiver we are differently setting ourselves up for disappointment. Ive started
watching him alot considering we maybe target ing him in the offseason if he becomes available. I was shocked to conclude that hes the Steelers 3rd best receiver behind Brown and Sanders.

What does he do better than Hartline? He can run....
Folks being very objective thats his Only skill set where hes clearly better. In every othe category Hartline is better: catching the ball (Wallace drops a shocking amount off balls), Route running ( Hartline reall runs some terrific route, Wallace is completely **** here which is shocking considering his speed and quickness) Toughness ( Wallace is a *****, he really reminds me of Ginn, the guy folds up go8ng across the middle)

I really wanted him here until I finally started to watch him play.Hes not close to being a true #1 and hes marginal at best as a #2 mainly because his hands and route running abilites are trash
 
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