Bring Jim Bates back home...

[Adam First]

No to Bates...we have Capers now. So nyah.

 

[LarryFinFan]

let the bills have him, they will blow 4th qtr leads :sidelol:

jim bates was good, but lets remember how many games the defense lost bc of his play calling for the d. im sorry but i am glad he is gone, ppl need to let go of jim bates, obviously he has a big ego and didnt want to stay when saban offered it to him. besides, capers and saban will set up the defense and it will be alot more productive and more creative

I agree with you...particularly the last 3 years, it was a "bend but then break" D. The issue we had was that D is predicated on the interior DL colapsing the pocket on passing downs and stuffing the run in the middle. When that didn't work (be it from lack of talent at the DT or injuries) it exposed the edges of the D and gave offenses a place to attack us. It's really predicated on having the right personnel and if you don't....your going to get exposed. The Jills will see this if they don't shore up the DTs they have....

 

[Justasportsfan]

I agree with you...particularly the last 3 years, it was a "bend but then break" D. The issue we had was that D is predicated on the interior DL colapsing the pocket on passing downs and stuffing the run in the middle. When that didn't work (be it from lack of talent at the DT or injuries) it exposed the edges of the D and gave offenses a place to attack us. It's really predicated on having the right personnel and if you don't....your going to get exposed. The Jills will see this if they don't shore up the DTs they have....

Like i asked, was that Bates fault or was he taking orders from Wanny?

 

[FinFaninMS]

The Vikings won on a trick play (a Moss pass) and a way-too-long field goal from Andersen. The defense generated three turnovers and two sacks, and kept the league's second-best offense from scoring more than 20.



Already covered this. The defense did not make Mark Royals punt the ball out of bounds at the Miami 34.



That was a screen pass. Also, did the defense miss two game-winning field goals, or was that Mare? Even if you don't blame him for the blocked one, Fiedler threw an interception in overtime and Mare missed a chip shot on the dirt.



While this was not a good game for the defense, Fiedler's two interceptions and Frerotte-like completion percentage didn't help.

Sure, there's excuses for everything. The bottom line is, they never stepped up and won the game. So why bring Bates back now that he doesn't even have the same skill players he had then? He had his chance; now he can try to actually win something somewhere else.

 

[Justasportsfan]

Sure, there's excuses for everything. The bottom line is, they never stepped up and won the game. So why bring Bates back now that he doesn't even have the same skill players he had then? He had his chance; now he can try to actually win something somewhere else.

It was all Bates' fault. Heaven knows Fiedler was a qb that was good enough to bring the fins to the promise land.

 

[LarryFinFan]

It was all Bates' fault. Heaven knows Fiedler was a qb that was good enough to bring the fins to the promise land.

Justa, you guys could have very well done worse than Bates (if it's official yet) and it could have been Wanny's conservatism that controled Bates playcalling, but the fact is that, in his system, the DTs and the CBs MUST do the job or the D has a hard time holding offenses. But you guys have the talent to be successful...until we play each other...

 

[Justasportsfan]

Justa, you guys could have very well done worse than Bates (if it's official yet) and it could have been Wanny's conservatism that controled Bates playcalling, but the fact is that, in his system, the DTs and the CBs MUST do the job or the D has a hard time holding offenses. But you guys have the talent to be successful...until we play each other...

Like I said, I'm not sold on Bates but there's nothing else out there. I'd take him over Cotrell however. Jauron supposedly had a decent D with hardly any talent on D while he was with the Bears. Maybe that would help Bates, I don't know. I don't know where the bills are headed. I just know I'm glad Donoahoe and Moolarkey are gone. They didn't know what it takes to win. Pitts is on it's way to winning the sb now that they are both gone from that org. Interesting.

 

[flintsilver7]

Sure, there's excuses for everything. The bottom line is, they never stepped up and won the game. So why bring Bates back now that he doesn't even have the same skill players he had then? He had his chance; now he can try to actually win something somewhere else.

It's really the offense's job to win the game. It's the defense's job to stop the other team, which by and large they did. This is very much like the relation of a pitcher's run support to his win-loss record - Kevin Millwood, for example, lead the American League in ERA but frequently managed to get next to no run support. Well, Millwood was 9-11; a naive person like yourself might say he never won anything. The fact is, the Indians couldn't hit their way out of a paper bag when Millwood was on the mound.

It's utterly ridiculous to blame the defense. You still blame them when they're on the field for 40 minutes and the offense has scored all of 13 or 17 points. The defense keeps the offense in the game for longer than they should be expected, yet you blame them.

The Bills will be lucky to get him. Maybe you didn't notice, but Miami's defense dropped significantly since Mr. Bates left. I understand that corresponds with the loss of Surtain and Knight. Make of it what you will.

 

[FinFaninMS]

The Bills will be lucky to get him. Maybe you didn't notice, but Miami's defense dropped significantly since Mr. Bates left. I understand that corresponds with the loss of Surtain and Knight. Make of it what you will.

The whole defense was revamped. There is no comparison to Bates' defense that had a slew of Pro Bowlers.

A poster on another thread had a good point. It took half of our salary cap in order to make Bates' defense work. And still it got us nowhere.

 

[flintsilver7]

The whole defense was revamped. There is no comparison to Bates' defense that had a slew of Pro Bowlers.

A poster on another thread had a good point. It took half of our salary cap in order to make Bates' defense work. And still it got us nowhere.

That's a total lie, because Bates never had an underperforming or underpaid defense. He went to Green Bay and managed to improve them drastically without overhauling personnel.

Bates is one of the best defensive coordinators in the league. He's better than Capers. Get over it.

It was the LACK OF OFFENSE that got us nowhere.

 

[FinFaninMS]

That's a total lie, because Bates never had an underperforming or underpaid defense. He went to Green Bay and managed to improve them drastically without overhauling personnel.

Bates is one of the best defensive coordinators in the league. He's better than Capers. Get over it.

It was the LACK OF OFFENSE that got us nowhere.

I don't have to get over anything. Bates is in the past, where he belongs and I'm glad he isn't coming back.

And if you had better reading comprehension you would have noticed that the point wasn't that the defense was underpaid, it was that they were paid to much in relation to the salary cap. If you're going to be paid more than the offense they you'd better produce.

 

[flintsilver7]

I don't have to get over anything. Bates is in the past, where he belongs and I'm glad he isn't coming back.

And if you had better reading comprehension you would have noticed that the point wasn't that the defense was underpaid, it was that they were paid to much in relation to the salary cap. If you're going to be paid more than the offense they you'd better produce.

Jim Bates did not write the checks. Jim Bates and his defense did well. The metrics for measuring defense indicate that yes, in fact, the Dolphins defense excelled.

What's your idea of a performing defense? Do they have to score 14 points a game?

 

[Justasportsfan]

And if you had better reading comprehension you would have noticed that the point wasn't that the defense was underpaid, it was that they were paid to much in relation to the salary cap. If you're going to be paid more than the offense they you'd better produce.

that's a GM problem not a DC problem. If you guys hold any value to what Zach and Taylor says, they wanted bates to stay as a head coach. That says a lot.

 

[FinFaninMS]

that's a GM problem not a DC problem. If you guys hold any value to what Zach and Taylor says, they wanted bates to stay as a head coach. That says a lot.

The fact that they always folded in the big game under Bates says a lot too.

 

[flintsilver7]

The fact that they always folded in the big game under Bates says a lot too.

That's a meaningless statement. No matter how many times I say this, nobody seems to listen or understand.

EVERY SINGLE STOP THE DEFENSE MAKES IS IMPORTANT. MIAMI HAD A WOEFULLY INADEQUATE OFFENSE, AND EVERY STOP THE DEFENSE MADE WAS ULTIMATELY CRITICAL.

Show me where the defense folded, and nine times out of ten I can show you where the offense couldn't produce and the defense had already been on the field for 35 minutes while holding the opposing offense to 10 points or so.