Bryant McKinnie says Philbin doesn't deserve any blame | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Bryant McKinnie says Philbin doesn't deserve any blame

123phins said:
Case and point, no evidence, all opinion. The only evidence is texts Incog sent that martin also responded similarly to
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You are standing ground on a point you are clearly wrong on because that is what we posters do. It was an INVESTIGATION with the DIRECT INTENT to GATHER FACTS.

Have you read the report? Be honest here. Wells offers opinions of his insight as well as insight of psychologists in addition to providing the gathered facts, statements, and evidence. He begins that damn report by telling you that those opinion are just that, opinions and that the content of the of the facts, statements, and gathered evidence is what should be taken into account. He must do this not only because its ethical but because they can get sued for adding the insight they offer as opinion without a disclaimer.

Facts and opinions. What are you not comprehending? They have evidence- EVIDENCE- affirming Martin's case. That is not a matter of opinion. The comments, the statements that players and coaches made could be subpoenaed in a court of law. Huh, if you think that Pouncey wont start singing like a canary if hes called to a stand then he better hope to have an attorney good enough to convince a jury that pleading the 5th usually doesnt condemn the witness/defendant in the eyes of the jury/court.
 
OnDaChainWax said:
You are standing ground on a point you are clearly wrong on because that is what we posters do. It was an INVESTIGATION with the DIRECT INTENT to GATHER FACTS.

Have you read the report? Be honest here. Wells offers opinions of his insight as well as insight of psychologists in addition to providing the gathered facts, statements, and evidence. He begins that damn report by telling you that those opinion are just that, opinions and that the content of the of the facts, statements, and gathered evidence is what should be taken into account. He must do this not only because its ethical but because they can get sued for adding the insight they offer as opinion without a disclaimer.

Facts and opinions. What are you not comprehending? They have evidence- EVIDENCE- affirming Martin's case. That is not a matter of opinion. The comments, the statements that players and coaches made could be subpoenaed in a court of law. Huh, if you think that Pouncey wont start singing like a canary if hes called to a stand then he better hope to have an attorney good enough to convince a jury that pleading the 5th usually doesnt condemn the witness/defendant in the eyes of the jury/court.
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Where are you getting this jury? its a civil case. Judge judy will read the report say stop wasting my time get over it next. Your blowing this thing up way too much in your head if you think this will be taken the a court where a jury will be involved, no court will do anything of that caliber to determined how bad one player hurt the others feelings.
 
Southbeach 2 said:
I'm no lawyer but, are messages sent from player to player reason for an NFL team to suspend them? I think not.
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Well, no. Unless those messages threaten to F your sister and C in her C and threaten him in the process after being assaulted on a yahct.

cmon southbeach. You have to get real here.

But once again, the manner in which Martin handled it was not right either.
 
123phins said:
Where are you getting this jury? its a civil case. Judge judy will read the report say stop wasting my time get over it next. Your blowing this thing up way too much in your head if you think this will be taken the a court where a jury will be involved, no court will do anything of that caliber to determined how bad one player hurt the others feelings.
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Mcdonalds was sued over a hot cup of coffee and they won.
 
123phins said:
Where are you getting this jury? its a civil case. Judge judy will read the report say stop wasting my time get over it next. Your blowing this thing up way too much in your head if you think this will be taken the a court where a jury will be involved, no court will do anything of that caliber to determined how bad one player hurt the others feelings.
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Whether your opinion of my blowing it up despite the fact that Im merely listing as a possibility- and you cannot deny or debate that it isnt a possibility- of a matter that can escalate to such explosions if the matter is not sufficiently handled directly from our organization.

What is so hard to understand that this can blow up in many ways if the organization mishandles the situation :sarcasm alert: because, of course, what are the chances of us mishandling a situation?

Can you really put it passed this organization's misfortune that a scenario as follows would never occur:

(1) Organization employs penalties and settlements to bring a result.

(2) it is mishandled because parties who have been outed with significant evidence of behaving abhorrently in the work place are NOT properly fined/disciplined/ add your word here.

(3) the NFL has to step in due to more media **** storm.

(4) more world of **** for us all.

The initial argument was that Pouncey's actions dont justify a suspension because there is zero evidence against Pouncey and that is incorrect to heights of which only astronauts have experienced.

My point is, make sure the organization gets it right because if lack of suspensions forces Goodell to step in, any and all sorts of crazy blow ups are possible.
 
OnDaChainWax said:
Whether your opinion of my blowing it up despite the fact that Im merely listing as a possibility- and you cannot deny or debate that it isnt a possibility- of a matter that can escalate to such explosions if the matter is not sufficiently handled directly from our organization.

What is so hard to understand that this can blow up in many ways if the organization mishandles the situation :sarcasm alert: because, of course, what are the chances of us mishandling a situation?

Can you really put it passed this organization's misfortune that a scenario as follows would never occur:

(1) Organization employs penalties and settlements to bring a result.

(2) it is mishandled because parties who have been outed with significant evidence of behaving abhorrently in the work place are NOT properly fined/disciplined/ add your word here.

(3) the NFL has to step in due to more media **** storm.

(4) more world of **** for us all.

The initial argument was that Pouncey's actions dont justify a suspension because there is zero evidence against Pouncey and that is incorrect to heights of which only astronauts have experienced.

My point is, make sure the organization gets it right because if lack of suspensions forces Goodell to step in, any and all sorts of crazy blow ups are possible.
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At most he gets suspended, he appeals it, suspension is rescinded because of all the sketchy facts and unknowns. When it comes time to resign him he would rather go elsewhere where he is respected.

Why would Goodell step in? the only reason for the investigation is because the dolphins as an organization requested it. Its an internal issue and the only thing the league will do is make standards for code of conduct for around the league.
 
finfan54 said:
But once again, the manner in which Martin handled it was not right either.
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This is something I have written redundantly about. That report depicts Martin, as per admissions provided by Martin himself, as a tortured soul and the bulk of his torture was coming from judgement of himself from himself. I will continue to coin the phrase and I am cheesilly quoting myself, "Martin was Martin's worst bully." This is as much his fault for not being able to cope with the situation regardless of an illness and stress due to an environment we can all sympathize with.

Of course one can and should have sympathy for Martin. It was a bad situation from the outset and his depression allowed him to sink to agony that many of you may be fortunate to never experience. But it does not, should not affect the fact that Martin could not cope, could not act to resolve a situation that is a part of a workplace where these interactions are crucial hence, Martin was not a productive worker hence, he is also very much to blame.
 
Not sure I'm following all the back and forth.....but just to throw out a few opinions on what I think you are saying....

JM is an employee of the Dolphins. He could file an EEOC claim against the Phins for a hostile work environment....which could have some validity. But a civil lawsuit seems a bit of a stretch to me. By practicing in this type of behavior himself, not informing his superiors of the issue and also threatening Incognito via email, texts, messages..etc, he would have a very uphill battle in my opinion.

Regarding Incognito's suspension, he was suspended by the Phins and not the NFL. The Phins suspended him, based on a voicemail left on Martin's cell phone by Incognito using the "N" word and threatening violence (if I recall, it actually had something to do with Martin's mouth). As an employer, if I had evidence of one employee threatening another, I would have them suspended immediately as well while it is investigated. There is nothing unreasonable about this step and in my opinion, was properly handled.

What I find interesting, is if you turn this around and look at it the other way. What if Incognito had been the one to walk off and complain that Martin was bullying him? I have seen enough texts and pictures and emails that you could probably make a case the other way around as well. Remember, Martin didn't tell anyone, so people like McKinnie are going through their season not having any clue that something is wrong. I listened to an interview with Brent Grimes yesterday.....he said the Phins had a great locker room and had no idea any of this was happening or an issue. Hartline said the same thing last night on NFLN.

I'm tired of the whole issue. Get rid of all these guys by cutting or trading or not re-signing them and lets move on.
 
123phins said:
At most he gets suspended, he appeals it, suspension is rescinded because of all the sketchy facts and unknowns. When it comes time to resign him he would rather go elsewhere where he is respected.

Why would Goodell step in? the only reason for the investigation is because the dolphins as an organization requested it. Its an internal issue and the only thing the league will do is make standards for code of conduct for around the league.
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123, I appreciate the manner in which you have remained much more cooler than I in this debate but your naivety is killing me bro.

This is an internal issue? One of the main topics being discussed and debated media outlets everywhere is that this kind of behavior is prevalent and accepted in the NFL. How is our internal issue not touching the entirety of the NFL?

Another edit:point is that in my opinion, in the event Pouncey gets suspended he should take his punishment as a man as shut his mouth. As ignorantly as he behaved he must know that a) he deserves the punishment and b) the best course of action is not keep bringing this matter to the national podium with appeals creating more negativity and not allowing the matter to fade away in an more expedient fashion. You have not replied in whether you have read the entire report or not. The evidence against Pouncey is mot sketchy in any way, shape, or form. This is an illusion you have falsely created im guessing in your mind and transferred to your posts. You are wrong on sketchy and unknowns. There is clear (not sketchy) evidence and known (no where near unknown) events. I will not continue to go round and round with you on this issue because you are wrong. You probably know you are wrong and now you cant and wont backpedal.

Why would Goodell step in? La Confora, just the other day, tweeted of possible loss of draft pocks. La Confora didnt present a source nor evidence but i present it as proof that any scenario, extreme or not is no where near a crazy idea and its being considered by minds outside of the bubble you are defending. You are trying to paint a picture of me blowing this way out of proportion as if its a crazy idea. Brother, you are in the midst of craziness and i find you crazy to believe that the matter doesnt have the can, may, or possibility of escalation.
 
OnDaChainWax said:
123, I appreciate the manner in which you have remained much more cooler than I in this debate but your naivety is killing me bro.

This is an internal issue? One of the main topics being discussed and debated media outlets everywhere is that this kind of behavior is prevalent and accepted in the NFL. How is our internal issue not touching the entirety of the NFL?

Another fact is that in my opinion, in the event Pouncey gets suspended he should take his punishment as a man as shut his mouth. As ignorantly as he behaved he must know that a) he deserves the punishment and b) the best course of action is not keep bringing this matter to the national podium with appeals creating more negativity and not allowing the matter to fade away in an more expedient fashion. You have not replied in whether you have read the entire report or not. The evidence against Pouncey is mot sketchy in any way, shape, or form. This is an illusion you have falsely created im guessing in your mind and transferred to your posts. You are wrong on sketchy and unknowns. There is clear (not sketchy) evidence and known (no where near unknown) events. I will not continue to go round and round with you on this issue because you are wrong. You probably know you are wrong and now you cant and wont backpedal.

Why would Goodell step in? La Confora, just the other day, tweeted of possible loss of draft pocks. La Confora didnt present a source nor evidence but i present it as proof that any scenario, extreme or not is no where near a crazy idea and its being considered by minds outside of the bubble you are defending. You are trying to paint a picture of me blowing this way out of proportion as if its a crazy idea. Brother, you are in the midst of craziness and i find you crazy to believe that the matter can, may, or has the possibility of escalating.
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1) Would you take losing 200 grand in stride for the greater good? every player in this league is in it first for the money and second for the title. every player will appeal unless it is an absolute lost cause and when the eveidence is a bunch of he said she said with some back and forth texts its far from a lost cause
2)I have a life that i am not about to sit at my computer and read a 144 page report.
3)I am not the one saying it will escalate, i am saying it is over and done with. the report is out, the nfl will change its standards, and the dolphins will make the personnel decisions based on it. You are the one who is oin fact saying it will escalate to suspensions, and loss of picks.
4)And on the loss of the draft pick, the bounty scandal was much grater than this and it was a second round pick. the same thing was said about Tomlin stepping on the field. so you lose a 6th or 7th rounder. more than likely thats a special teamer that you can nab of any practice squad in the league.
Its all he said this and he said that?
5) it is internal, the only thing the league will look at is how the culture and code of conduct can be improved to prevent anything like this in the future. The league wants this to disappear just as much as the dolphins organization and the best thing to do is let the team do what they see as fit punishment and bring the least amount of attention to it as possible.
 
Bryant McKinnie: Jonathan Martin went about it the wrong way

Bryant McKinnie, who replaced Jonathan Martin as the Dolphins’ left tackle after Martin left the team amid accusations that he was being bullied, doesn’t like the way Martin handled himself in the locker room.

McKinnie said on SiriusXM NFL Radio that Martin should have spoken up and said so if the razzing in the locker room was getting under his skin.

“I don’t feel like ‘bullying’ is the term because nobody physically harmed him or made him do anything,” McKinnie said. “He always had an option to say yes or no. It was never that he got bullied like he feared for his life. I just feel like he went about it the wrong way and didn’t communicate properly with the proper people. . . . The players themselves thought Jonathan was laughing with them.”

“Some people might look at Jonathan as, he might be too sensitive for this environment,” he said. “We don’t know if he’s emotionally stable enough to do this.”
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...-jonathan-martin-went-about-it-the-wrong-way/
 
GreenMts said:
Might have a little more credence if he played with Martin and Cog for more than 1 week and 2 weeks respectively.
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My thoughts exactly, he played all of 3 days before JM went awol and here he is the only player not involved giving his opinion to anyone who will listen....someone please tell him to shut up....
 
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