Building success starts with a franchise QB

[Dol-Fan Dupree]

People like to point out to the first round busts but the statistics generally point out that the franchise QBs come from that round.

that is because unlike most positions the first round bust quarterback REALLY hurts a team A LOT.

 

[CanadaPhinsFan]

Heading into this years draft my big question is: Do we miss the opportunity to get a Rodgers of Leinhardt now that we'll have a pick in the top three? I mean, even if we know Feeley's the guy...how do we pass that up? Worse case scenario is we pick the top QB and then trade him for a whole barrel of a deal later on.

That way, if Feeley's the guy. Great, fantastic I couldn't be happier. If he isn't, then we have the other guy. By '06 we know what's up and either trade the drafted QB (who's been learning, watching waiting for a whole season in the NFL) Or we trade Feeley.

WIN WIN.

We have Surtain to trade to grab one of Dallas's #1 picks. We use that on the best player still available on OL or DL.

The problem with that is the cap. The NFL isn't designed for trades. The cap hit can be destructive. If we take a QB in the 1st, he's going to get at least a $15 million bonus. If he gets traded next year, all the remaining bonus spread out over the rest of his contract hits the cap at once. It's a great idea in theory, but unless you're trading a guy at the end of his contract the cap hit can make it next to impossible. Especially on a tem like Miami with not much cap room.

 

[jzolnowski]

All im saying is you can get any position in FA except QB good QBs almost never leave in FA. But Ol, DL, S, RB they leave in FA all the time just look at last year off the top of my head

OL- John Tait, Damien Woody

DL- Warren Sapp, Jevon Kearse

S- John Lynch

RB- Duce Staley

name the last team to get a valuable FA QB?

 

[CanadaPhinsFan]

All im saying is you can get any position in FA except QB good QBs almost never leave in FA. But Ol, DL, S, RB they leave in FA all the time just look at last year off the top of my head

OL- John Tait, Damien Woody

DL- Warren Sapp, Jevon Kearse

S- John Lynch

RB- Duce Staley

name the last team to get a valuable FA QB?

That depends on your definition of valuable. Denver is pretty happy with Jake Plummer. Washington THOUGHT they got a good QB in Brunnell.

You could list quite a few guys who although they may not be successful this season, have had success elsewhere and were FA's:
Jeff Garcia
Kurt Warner
Kerry Collins
Brian Griese

It's tough to get any impact player as a FA. Teams do a good job of locking up their talent when they can.

 

[jzolnowski]

All of the QBs mentioned besides PLummer were CUT which means someone thought they werent that good anymore.

Warner=cut for Bulger(signed as caretaker/backup)
Brunell= cut for leftwich
Griese= cut for Plummer AND feidler(signed as backup)
Collins=cut for Manning(signed as backup)
Garcia=cut for Rattay


my guys...
Sapp=FA(signed as starter)
Lynch=cut(signed as starter)
Kearse=FA was offered money from his old team and new ones
Woody=FA see above
Tait=FA see above
Staley= see above

the point is good QBs dont leave in FA, useless QBs get cut when the team likes other options yeah sometimes they wind up doing OK, FA leave all the time in other positions. There is a HUGE difference between a player thats cut and a legitimate FA. FA usually have a much bigger upside. They leave because they think they are worth more. Cut players leave because the team thinks they are worth less

 

[inFINSible]

Heres another interesting note

1.Manning-1st round
2.Culpepper-1st round
3.Brees-1stpick 2nd round
4.Mcnabb-1st round
5.Griese-3rd round
6.Big Ben-1st round
7.Pennington-1st round
8.Farve-6thpick 2nd round
9.Green-8th round
10.Plummer-12pick 2nd round
11.Brady-6th round
12.Bulger-6th round
13.Carr-1st round
14.Leftwich-1st round
15.Vick-1st round
16.Harrington1st round
17.Rattay-7th round
18.Delhomme-undrafted
19.Testaverde-1st round
20.Brooks-4th round
21.Garcia-undrafted
22.Mcnair-1st round
23.Bledsoe-1st round
24.Collins-1st round
25.Hasselbeck-6th round
26.Mccown-3rd round
27.Boller-1st round
28.Warner-undrafted
29.Palmer-1st round
30.Brunell-5th round
31.Feeley-5th round
32.Grossman-1st round

16 of these32 starters are first round draft choices 50% of the starters!

3 are early 2nd rounders

2 3rd rounders who have both been benched or cut for a team

1 4th whose team is giving up on

2 5th one is feeley and we might draft another QB the other is Brunell who got benched for Ramsey a FIRST rounder

3 6th Hasselbeck, Brady, Bulger not a bad spot

1 7th Rattay there probably getting a new QB this draft

1 8th Green best RB and still cant win

3 undrafted warner won a SB but now is benched for a FIRST
Garcia- nothing bad
Delhomme- SB one year bust the next

So basically with the exception of the 3 6th rounders All of the good QBs are 1st or early second rounders .....very interesting

I think the most interesting thing about that list is the fact that there are only 5 QBs that have played in a SB.

Of those 5, only 1 is a first round draft choice. ( 1/16 )

1 is a second round draft choice.

2 are 6th rounders and one was undrafted.

 

[Stitches]

You are forgetting one of those QB's. Either Warner or Delhomme. Both went undrafted.

 

[inFINSible]

You are forgetting one of those QB's. Either Warner or Delhomme. Both went undrafted.

Thanks, you're right, it was Warner.

 

[Stitches]

Not a problem.

 

[CrunchTime]

I think the most interesting thing about that list is the fact that there are only 5 QBs that have played in a SB.



Of those 5, only 1 is a first round draft choice. ( 1/16 )



1 is a second round draft choice.



2 are 6th rounders and one was undrafted.

Trust you to find a hole in an argument.Its a valid observation.

 

[jzolnowski]

First of all INFINSIBLE Bledsoe, Collins, and Mcnair all played in a SB so thats 3

5 of the 1st rounders are in their 1st year as a starter so they couldnt have been in one yet.

Vick is only in his second year as a starter due to injuries(no rookie goes SB)

Manning, Culpepper, Pennington and Mcnabb dont need for a arguement placed for them BUT two of them could be there this year as they are all almost garunteed to be in the playoffs this year

Carr took over a expansion Franchise(only 3 seasons ago) who lost thier top expansion draft player

So basically Testaverde and Harrington are the only questionable as of now right

Meanwhile out of the other 16

6 Brunell/10seasons, Hasselbeck/4seasons, Brooks/5seasons, Green/6seasons, Griese/4seasons, Plummer/8seasons have been starters for a combined 37 seasons and not only are there no SB there are only maybe 8 or so playoff appearances not only is that bad its funny

3 Feeley,Mccown, Rattay are first year starters

4 Farve, Brady, Delhomme, and Warner have been there but as I stated Farve may not be a first but he was a very high second(we can't take a QB in the 2nd)

3 Brees, Garcia, Bulger not only have they not been to a SB but they have all either been cut or benched

So clearly the first rounders have an advatage give them some time there will be more SB appearances there, the problem is they are all young with the years that the late rounders have they should destroy them not have a close call such as 3 1st rounders in a SB to 4 late rounders(and really its 3 because Farve was an early second as stated before)

 

[Dol-Fan Dupree]

First of all INFINSIBLE Bledsoe, Collins, and Mcnair all played in a SB so thats 3

5 of the 1st rounders are in their 1st year as a starter so they couldnt have been in one yet.

Vick is only in his second year as a starter due to injuries(no rookie goes SB)

Manning, Culpepper, Pennington and Mcnabb dont need for a arguement placed for them BUT two of them could be there this year as they are all almost garunteed to be in the playoffs this year

Carr took over a expansion Franchise(only 3 seasons ago) who lost thier top expansion draft player

So basically Testaverde and Harrington are the only questionable as of now right

Meanwhile out of the other 16

6 Brunell/10seasons, Hasselbeck/4seasons, Brooks/5seasons, Green/6seasons, Griese/4seasons, Plummer/8seasons have been starters for a combined 37 seasons and not only are there no SB there are only maybe 8 or so playoff appearances not only is that bad its funny

3 Feeley,Mccown, Rattay are first year starters

4 Farve, Brady, Delhomme, and Warner have been there but as I stated Farve may not be a first but he was a very high second(we can't take a QB in the 2nd)

3 Brees, Garcia, Bulger not only have they not been to a SB but they have all either been cut or benched

So clearly the first rounders have an advatage give them some time there will be more SB appearances there, the problem is they are all young with the years that the late rounders have they should destroy them not have a close call such as 3 1st rounders in a SB to 4 late rounders(and really its 3 because Farve was an early second as stated before)

Collins did not play the superbowl for the team he was drafted by

 

[jzolnowski]

Niether did Farve Technically neither did Warner due to the fact that he was on other teams rosters but was cut before season began so he went to arena football untill STL gave him a start so if we are going to take that out it goes down to 2 and 2 and the late rounders are still not as good

 

[dominizzo]

guys orlovsky plays withh? and frye ????? please get bak to me

 

[jzolnowski]

Oh yeah Delhomme was originally on the NO roster for 2 seasons so he wouldnt count either so that would make it 2 to 1 for the first rounders