Buyer Beware - Comparing QB's- Kolb, Flynn, Young - Palmer, Hasselbeck and Bulger

[jason_taylor]

I came away somewhat impressed with Matt Flynn, but he needs a lot of work.

i agree i like flynn and think he will become a very good QB just a lil more time n the field imo we should go after flynn or palmer no more than a 3 rd for flynn and maybe a 2nd or a 3rd and a 6th for palmer

 

[CpuFan]

I edited the Vince Young posting a bit because I was wrong in saying his police blotter was a mile long. I found only two reported incidents. I added them to the posting as well. What the heck even though my head says it's not a good idea to sign him. My heart says everyone deserves a second chance. It's either him or Palmer. As far as I can see. Go Fins!

 

[Kinzua]

Hasselbeck and Bulger are just about at the ends of their careers IMO, especially Bulger.

Since Denver didn't draft a QB, it's unlikely that Orton will be going anywhere immediately since Tebow still have a long ways to go.

While Palmer wants to leave Cinci, it's unlikely that Cinci will let him go without just compensation. He's a starter and former Pro Bowler, so I'd say a minimum of a 1st and another pick to pry him loose -- plus his new team inherits his large contract.

Young will be a FA if Tennessee can't find a dupe to take him off their hands for a draft pick. He's a failed starter with psychological issues. Smart teams pass.


As a Bills fan, I desperately want the Fins to trade a 2nd round draft pick for Kolb so he can follow in the great tradition of other QB failures that the Fins have used 2nd rounders on. Moreover, Trent Edwards 2.5 (he gets .5 because he's more willing to throw downfield than Edwards) guarantees the Bills two wins as long as the Fins start this dud!!! Think about it, for only a lowly 2nd rounder, the Fins could get a QB so bad that ...

• he put up Trent Edwards-like numbers on team with great offensive talent
• he made the Eagles offense look like the Panthers
• he made the Eagles offense look much worse than the Bills offense under Ryan Fitzpatrick
• Andy Reid swallowed his pride and pulled him for Dog Killer
• he makes Chad Henne look like an NFL QB :rolleyes2:

Seriously, Kolb is easily the worst QB on the list. Even as a FA, he'd be a waste of a roster spot. If Miami was going to add a QB, Flynn looks like the best of a very poor lot that would actually be available (ie, Orton and Palmer aren't going anywhere or would cost too much).

 

[Tureo]

I'm lost. Were we all watching the same team last year? Henne was horrible. I know Henning forced him to check down, stare down receivers, not be able to lead a guy on a pass to save his life, and be a complete failure as the leader of our offense but he's only a back up. He's an average QB. He was at Michigan and has been average here. I can see him getting a little better but not a lot better. He's been making the same mistakes for years. Another year with him is another year at .500 at best. I would bring in any of those guys if the price is right to compete and probably unseat Henne.

 

[WeVie]

Palmer might have some Rich Gannon Lazarus type upside but the costs associated with acquiring and paying him don't really justify bringing him in as a stopgap. Aside from that he's calling his own plays on this one and they involve getting closer to home like 45mins by air in Glendale AZ or 2hrs away playing for his old USC Coach in the rainy Pacific NW.

Kolb is AJ Feeley Redux, down to his spotty good and bad performance over a limited sampling. Factor in that he was taken only a few picks above Beck and comes from a pass happy spread U of Houston offense, and while we might invest a 4th on him, given the question marks anything above that is folly.

Flynn looked good again in a very limited, pressure-free setting and as Jamarcus Russell's LSU successor, I find that worrisome. We'd be buying a pig in a poke for this late rounder which is okay if he costs us nothing more than another late rounder.

Bulger is so reminiscent of when we brought in Trent Green - there are so many parallels that it's downright eerie. Pass

Hasselbeck - well if can stay healthy, maybe he would have been good as a short term stopgap and mentor for Ryan Mallett, but since, in their infinite wisdom, our all knowng FO decided to take a center who can't snap and the 4th best RB in a plentiful draft instead of perhaps the next Emmit Smith and Mallett, then no.. Hasselbeck is of no use to us thanks. Aside from that, his brother's a moron so he loses points there too.

Vince Young and his Wonderlic 6. There are folks on this board who claim Henne has nothing between his ears yet want Young. I find this confounding. This could be dumbest guy by word and deed in the NFL although Cromartie might give him a run for his money. From his sensitivity, overreaction and disrespect to fans as a result of being booed, to drunken brawls in nightclubs, to disrespecting coaches and letting his team down to being injury prone to having the Titan playbook dumbed down for him, I sure wouldn't put this specimen anywhere in Amish Country, let alone near SoBe.!!!!

Palmer would be nice to get maybe, but I think it would cost too much in picks and the contract. You have the other ones nailed down that's for sure. What do you think of McNabb? I think he would be cheap to get and will not cost us any picks. He may have a few good years left.

 

[Fins1971]

What do you think of McNabb?

McNabb would be my choice.
It was just 2 years ago he had the Eagles minutes away from going back to the Super Bowl.
Warner took the game away with late comeback win. DMAC threw for 375 yards and 3 TD's in that NFC Championship game.
I'd take him in a heartbeat. The only problem is the way the Redskins wrote the contract.
They can hold onto him and force whoever wants him to provide compensation. They want to recoup their draft pick they spent to get him.

 

[TRUDOLFAN54]

we should have taken a qb in this draft a young qb to compete how can ireland sit there and say we were not desperate for a qb when last year it was obvious that qb is what was holding us back what a dumb comment.really i just dont trust these guys we should have gotten rid of them both when parells left he was the one who brought ireland and sparano who never has even been a coordinater just a o-line coach in no way was this guy ready to be a hc.this team will do no better than 7-9 at best"i hope im wrong" the pats are still at the top and the jest are coming off two back to back afc championships i just dont understand young qb's are the way to go most teams that have done good in the playoffs and superbowls are teams who have drafted there qb's not gotten other teams rejects...

 

[Vaark]

Palmer would be nice to get maybe, but I think it would cost too much in picks and the contract. You have the other ones nailed down that's for sure. What do you think of McNabb? I think he would be cheap to get and will not cost us any picks. He may have a few good years left.

I never thought he was bad and a few years ago would have enthusiastically advocated our signing of him. However, I do believe he's a QB who looked better than he actually was in the Andy Reed offense. However, as Bumpus would say, the biggest "tells" IMO are that Andy Reed thought so little of him that he traded him to a direct divisional competitor - and who would know better than him? And then afterward, after spending a 2nd and another pick for him, Shanahan, who's no dummy (although gets a lot of residual credit IMO that really should go to John Elway) after a major investment benched him in favor of Rex Grossman with allegations that McNabb is lazy, and now it looks like our own much maligned John Beck may end up starting the season and that McNabb will be let go outright. What does that tell you? So, if he costs us nothing to come in and compete with Henne, I'm for it; if we have to guarantee a cent to him, I say "ixnay"

 

[Fins1971]

What has Andy Reid actually won? Without DMAC not much.
Last year division title and no playoff wins.
Andy Reid has 10 playoff wins, 9 of them coming with DMAC at the controls.

McNabb had one of the worst teams in the league (4-12 the previous year) at 5-5 and competing for the NFC east title in week 12 last year. And that was with his retarded coach pulling him in one of those game they lost.

He improved the Redskins by 2 wins and improved their scoring offense. I beleive he could do the same for us.

 

[Vaark]

What has Andy Reid actually won? Without DMAC not much.
Last year division title and no playoff wins.
Andy Reid has 10 playoff wins, 9 of them coming with DMAC at the controls.

McNabb had one of the worst teams in the league (4-12 the previous year) at 5-5 and competing for the NFC east title in week 12 last year. And that was with his retarded coach pulling him in one of those game they lost.

He improved the Redskins by 2 wins and improved their scoring offense. I beleive he could do the same for us.

Like I said, bring him in with no financial commitment and let him compete with Henne for his Benjamins... I'd be for that. Trent Green was an even better QB in his day until he wasn't

 

[Fins1971]

Like I said, bring him in with no financial commitment and let him compete with Henne for his Benjamins... I'd be for that. Trent Green was an even better QB in his day until he wasn't

Makes sense to me. As long as we don't have to give up any high picks.

 

[ckparrothead]

My fear with respect to Vince Young is that he gets enough interest on the open market that in order to get him Miami has to give some kind of multi-year commitment to him. This regime has a one year expiration date, maybe less than that. I don't want the Bill Cowher regime to be saddled with Vince Young as a going concern. He's a sociopath. His behavior points to that conclusion, between threats of suicide, his being perfectly OK with teammates thinking that he's not a particularly hard worker or good leader, his throwing his pads and stuff into the stands during a childlike temper tantrum, his attacking a guy at a club because he he gave him the hook'em horns hand signal upside down (bonus points for hitting that woman on the head because she happened to be in the way, stay classy San Diego), his penchant for being shirtless at night clubs, making it rain at strip clubs, etc...this guy is what he is. He has PROVEN to be the guy that people fear Ryan Mallett MIGHT be, and I'd find it extremely ironic if after passing on Mallett the Dolphins went with Vince.

From there I think Carson Palmer is the obvious best choice, but is he really even available to us? I say no. Even if Mike Brown comes off his hard line stance (good luck, there) then why would Carson and his family be willing to come here when they CLEARLY want to be in California?

Kyle Orton will not be made available. Get that out of your thoughts. The Broncos passed on this QB class, they want Orton either to start or to be their backup plan in case Tebow's not ready. That's just the way it is.

After that....holy hell are these options bad. Kevin Kolb is not a good quarterback IMO. I just don't see it. I've watched his 2010 games (more than just 'highlights') and I don't see it. I see a guy that too often did not see the field, especially further than 10-15 yards away from him. I see a guy that shied away from the pocket and was afraid of it. I see a guy that made so many bad decisions and throws he made Mark Sanchez seem reasonable.

What about Matt Flynn? Well, I ask YOU...what about him? The ONE thing anyone can settle on to say this former 7th round might even be remotely worth it is that NE game. And you know what? I watched that game. Not impressed. Really. Accuracy an ongoing issue all the way back to college. Decision-making an issue. Not seeing it at all.

Matt Hasselbeck...I could deal with him actually....IF we ran a West Coast Offense. We don't. And the record of career WCO guys that have gone over the hill suddenly trying to play in non-WCOs is not necessarily good. Brett Favre goes to New York and plays in a non-WCO similar to ours, he did not do well. He goes back to a WCO in Minnesota and hardly even practices, and has a career year! Jeff Garcia goes from SF to Cleveland in 2004 and then Detroit in 2005. Both were non-WCOs. In both spots he had quite literally THE worst two years in his entire career (77 Rating in Cleveland, 65 Rating in Detroit). He goes to Philly and immediately he's back up to a 96 QB Rating, and then a 95 QB Rating in Tampa, and then a 90 QB Rating the next year. Knowing this, how the hell can we be on board with the idea of, for the first time in Hasselbeck's career, plucking him OUT of the West Coast Offense, and putting him in our offense? Not on board.

Two guys that I'd be on board with...are bad options. I'm going to be honest. They're not good options. I'd be on board with Marc Bulger, and I'd be on board with Caleb Hanie. I know that Bulger's health really started to go and that impacted his play the last time he played, but the word out of Baltimore is that he's healthy and feeling great. If so, this is a guy that has been FAR better than Chad Henne for most of his career. If you're not interested in actually winning games, go ahead and be picky and choosy and forego various options so that Henne can continue losing for us. If you actually want to win some more games you might think about options like Bulger. Of course if you're in suck for Luck mode...you better be hoping we go with Henne and don't sign anyone.

As for Caleb Hanie, I've watched his 2010 games and honestly I was impressed. He was already a guy that got my attention in preseasons past, but I look at what he did in that NFC Championship Game...go ahead and focus on the 2 interceptions if you want. One of them was clearly an experience thing, not recognizing the NT B.J. Raji dropping back in zone on a zone blitz. That's just one of those plays, they don't happen often like that so to draw a lot of conclusions from them unless it's a symptom of a problem you notice consistently out of the guy...I dunno about that. The last interception was 4th & 5, backed into a corner on a do or die down because of Mike Martz' stupidly calling a WR Reverse on 3rd & 3 while the team was trying to drive for the tying touchdown. What I notice about Hanie in that game was that it was never too big for him. Ever. He's in the NFC freaking Championship Game and Jay Cutler got mysteriously hurt, and the offense was pitiful the whole day. Hanie didn't even get to throw the ball until the 4th quarter, down 14-0. What does he do? Scores a TD. Dom Capers is throwing everything but the kitchen sink at him, moving all his linebackers around and dropping 8 or 9 into coverage, disguising coverages, getting Clay Matthews free and pressuring Hanie all the time even with only 3 or 4 people rushing, package blitzes, zone blitzes, pre-snap movement...Capers held nothing back. And yet, Hanie marches them up the field and throws what should have been a TD to Johnny Knox, perfectly timed, perfect ball placement (something Henne lacks), Knox takes it to the door step of the end zone but if I remember right he stepped out of bounds unnecessarily (scored the TD anyway).

So then he gets fooled on that zone blitz, Raji takes the interception for a TD. That's the "uh oh" moment...right? I mean, this is a backup QB, hardly ever played any NFL downs before...and he just screwed up something awful, in 14-7 game, in the 4th quarter, with a Super Bowl bid on the line right here and now...he makes that mistake. So now he's down 21-7 in the 4th quarter with 6 minutes left. Does he beat himself up about it? Does he go in the tank? No. He goes to work, driving them down the field. He throws another beautiful ball to Earl Bennett on the outside, which allows Bennett to run after the catch and get the touchdowns.

And then on the final drive, he gets the ball back with 2:53 remaining on his own 29 yard line. He ends up with a 2nd & 20 because of an intentional grounding call I thought was questionable. I mean, I see that they called it, but when I watched the tape I never noted any intentional grounding, in fact I thought to myself "good throwaway". He completes passes on 2nd and 3rd down that gets them to a very convertable 4th & 1. He keeps driving down the field and gets all the way to the GB 27 yard line, and even though he'd been having success throwing the ball, Mike Martz gets cute and calls a WR reverse on 3rd & 3. He just can't help himself. This creates a 4th & 5 situation with 47 seconds remaining and the clock running, he tries to throw Knox on the post in the hole between the safety and corner in shell coverage, Sam Shields makes an athletic play undercutting the ball.

I tell you what though that entire performance, along with some other stuff I've seen of Hanie...that was really impressive to me. He was having more success in that 4th quarter than Jay Cutler was having the whole game and he just made a very few mistakes that seemed to me to be very understandable experience-related mistakes, the kind that speak to a learning curve rather than inherent ability.

I mean, if I were going to delude myself into the idea that I may find a franchise quarterback sitting on someone's scrap heap...Caleb Hanie is the way I'd go. We're behind the 8-ball anyway. This regime is toast regardless.

 

[phinzfan21]

Man watching the VY highlights it might be easy to understand why the phins coaching staff would look at him...every nice throw he made, and a few nice bombs were against us. GEEZ

 

[PhinsTD]

I'd offer Caleb Hanie a fair shot at the starting job and see if he'll sign here instead of re-signing with Chicago.

 

[tennphin]

My fear with respect to Vince Young is that he gets enough interest on the open market that in order to get him Miami has to give some kind of multi-year commitment to him. This regime has a one year expiration date, maybe less than that. I don't want the Bill Cowher regime to be saddled with Vince Young as a going concern. He's a sociopath. His behavior points to that conclusion, between threats of suicide, his being perfectly OK with teammates thinking that he's not a particularly hard worker or good leader, his throwing his pads and stuff into the stands during a childlike temper tantrum, his attacking a guy at a club because he he gave him the hook'em horns hand signal upside down (bonus points for hitting that woman on the head because she happened to be in the way, stay classy San Diego), his penchant for being shirtless at night clubs, making it rain at strip clubs, etc...this guy is what he is. He has PROVEN to be the guy that people fear Ryan Mallett MIGHT be, and I'd find it extremely ironic if after passing on Mallett the Dolphins went with Vince.

This is my problem with ESPiN these days. You always hear about these incidents that may or may not be true, but the talking heads take off with them.
"threats of suicide"--has been denied by everyone involved. And who was the one who even brought that up?? jeff fisher, again..

fight at the club--true, not his best moment, but we don't know what that guy was saying, and heck, other athletes might have been praised for their "fire" or "loyalty to their school" for that same event.

Throwing stuff in the crowd--He does this after every game, as he said multiple times and you conveniently left out. He gives the stuff to fans. He may have gone overboard that time, but is that really such a catastrophic deal after the way his coach treated him and after losing a game? The dude is ultra-competitive, which people usually seem to LOVE in athletes like MJ or Brady. And compare what he did to someone like Vick who flicked off his entire home crowd..look how much he has changed in a new situation, why can't Vince?

Shirtless at a club--Sorry for partying...
..but seriously, the dude was 23-24 years old and a new millionaire, and you don't expect him to party?? If you think other athletes don't do the same, you're naive..they just don't get photographed. These guys are normal young people--he wasn't breaking any rules or harming anyone, just having a good time. Millions of kids in their 20s do stuff like this every day in bars and frat houses all over the country. Get over it. Football players are humans too, don't forget that. (Interesting to note that Raiders top 10 pick/safety Michael Huff was in the picture too and never got mentioned at all)

Making it rain at strip clubs--wasn't that Pacman Jones? i don't remember that for vy, but i could be wrong.

not working hard--I still have never heard any proof to back this up. I do remember a news story here about Vince missing practice the week of the Steelers game (which TN got killed in)..but then it came out that he missed practice to take Steve McNairs kids to some father's day event at school...

...speaking of which--You never seem to hear about the other side of things on ESPN do you?
Like how Vince (who had a very close relationship w/ McNair before he even came to TN) has filled in as a father figure to McNair's kids nonstop since his tragic death. Whether it's bringing them to the field/games, taking them somewhere and hanging out, or going to events like the fathers one at their school, it truly is touching how much Vince has committed himself to helping those kids out, and even the Titan fans who hate Vince's guts will admit that much. No one forced that upon him, he did it all by himself and without ever trying to bring attention to it at all.. Don't just take my word for it, here's one of many articles on it and read the comments: http://blogs.tennessean.com/titans/2010/09/22/young-fills-in-for-mcnairs-kids-again/

--You also never hear about his involvement with countless charities (I know this seems normal for nfl players, but still) in TN, his hometown of Houston, and even back in his college town of Austin

but none of that makes good news, so i guess we should just stick with him being an egotistical a-hole..