Well...Willis was more productive though...you can argue about style...but Willis didn't neglect the run to pass rush...unlike Harris who purely pass rushed...and still...Jordan recorded more sacks and tackles for a loss.
Charles Harris and Raekwon McMillan or Rueben Foster and Jordan Willis?
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Well...Willis was more productive though...you can argue about style...but Willis didn't neglect the run to pass rush...unlike Harris who purely pass rushed...and still...Jordan recorded more sacks and tackles for a loss.
finomenal
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Understood, but from what I read about him, he sounds like the type of DE prospect who always gets drafted in the top 20. It's strange.
How many DE's have his production matched with a 4.53 forty and his other impressive tests?
Dajesus
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Yessir
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Jordan Willis absolutely destroying the combine, and still not coming off the board until the third round suggest that his tape isn't that impressive. Despite Willis testing better, Charles Harris agility, footwork, and the fluidity within his hips looks FAR more impressive on the game tape.
Yessir
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That's another thing to consider. The SEC had nearly 4 times as many players drafted as the Big 12. Don't even try to compare their production.
finomenal
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I don't know. I don't watch college football.
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OK, let me be clear about this one, there are very simple reasons for each choice.
Raekwon McMillan vs. Reuben Foster:
Injury potential. I could talk for days about how great a prospect McMillan is, because I truly believe he is awesome. But the reason this is an easy comparison is because Foster is damaged goods. His shoulder is a very real risk ... and after Dion Jordan never playing, and us having a roster full of injured guys like Koa Misi, Branden Albert, Mike Pouncey, etc. etc. etc., I highly doubt our front office wants to invest in yet another injured guy. Yes, Foster runs around with a bad crowd. Yes Foster made a bad decision at the combine. Yes Foster is already in the NFL drug program from a diluted sample at the combine ... all of those are problems for sure ... but it is the injury issue that caused him to drop out of the first and probably second round in our evaluation. He's not the first Alabama player to be driven hard and have joint issues ... it's pretty common. I can't help but think of Cyrus Koundjou (sp?) the stud OT who has been a shadow of himself in the NFL because of joint issues. The Foster you're paying for with your most prized possession of a 1st round pick is not the same Foster who dominated for Alabama. The NFL version is a thumper with a glass shoulder. Conversation finished ... not worth the risk.
Charles Harris vs. Jordan Willis
I'm also a fan of Jordan Willis the player and person. I was excited he was available in the 1st and the 2nd ... I would have been happy with him at either spot. I see him as a closer to Cam Wake type than Harris. And Willis is much better than Harris vs. the run. But it is one trait that separates Harris from Willis .. it's the first step. Harris can explode out of his stance and get position before the tackle can get to the spot. Then Harris can get and stay low, bend, and run the arc. Those are the skills that make pass rushers such a premium, and those are Charles Harris' strengths. Yes he is a hard worker, yes he is great at using leverage, yes he plays far more athletically than that bogus 40 time he tested, yes his spin move is Freeney-esque, but it is that first step that scares tackles. It is that first step that makes him elite. It is that first step that is better than Jordan Willis, and it is that first step that makes Harris such a good pass rushing prospect. Personally, I would have been just as happy with Willis, but I get why we were so enamoured with Harris.
Raekwon McMillan vs. Reuben Foster:
Injury potential. I could talk for days about how great a prospect McMillan is, because I truly believe he is awesome. But the reason this is an easy comparison is because Foster is damaged goods. His shoulder is a very real risk ... and after Dion Jordan never playing, and us having a roster full of injured guys like Koa Misi, Branden Albert, Mike Pouncey, etc. etc. etc., I highly doubt our front office wants to invest in yet another injured guy. Yes, Foster runs around with a bad crowd. Yes Foster made a bad decision at the combine. Yes Foster is already in the NFL drug program from a diluted sample at the combine ... all of those are problems for sure ... but it is the injury issue that caused him to drop out of the first and probably second round in our evaluation. He's not the first Alabama player to be driven hard and have joint issues ... it's pretty common. I can't help but think of Cyrus Koundjou (sp?) the stud OT who has been a shadow of himself in the NFL because of joint issues. The Foster you're paying for with your most prized possession of a 1st round pick is not the same Foster who dominated for Alabama. The NFL version is a thumper with a glass shoulder. Conversation finished ... not worth the risk.
Charles Harris vs. Jordan Willis
I'm also a fan of Jordan Willis the player and person. I was excited he was available in the 1st and the 2nd ... I would have been happy with him at either spot. I see him as a closer to Cam Wake type than Harris. And Willis is much better than Harris vs. the run. But it is one trait that separates Harris from Willis .. it's the first step. Harris can explode out of his stance and get position before the tackle can get to the spot. Then Harris can get and stay low, bend, and run the arc. Those are the skills that make pass rushers such a premium, and those are Charles Harris' strengths. Yes he is a hard worker, yes he is great at using leverage, yes he plays far more athletically than that bogus 40 time he tested, yes his spin move is Freeney-esque, but it is that first step that scares tackles. It is that first step that makes him elite. It is that first step that is better than Jordan Willis, and it is that first step that makes Harris such a good pass rushing prospect. Personally, I would have been just as happy with Willis, but I get why we were so enamoured with Harris.
sunworshipper
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Small college tweener.
JT dropping back in the 90s when the prototype DE was big bodied is a no brainer. He was a tweener. I'm sure that scared most teams.
It's gotta be the tape on Willis because he crushed the combine and was productive at K-State. I was never overly impressed with him. He looks like a solid player, nothing special. I'd have definitely taken him at 54 if we went another direction at 22. Harris has star potential though. You don't pass on that. Maybe Willis will become the more complete player, but I'd rather the potential elite pass rusher that can change games.
Harris' first step alone puts him a notch above. You can't teach that. That's what translates most to the next level as a pass rusher. I can see Willis getting shut down by solid tackles.
It's gotta be the tape on Willis because he crushed the combine and was productive at K-State. I was never overly impressed with him. He looks like a solid player, nothing special. I'd have definitely taken him at 54 if we went another direction at 22. Harris has star potential though. You don't pass on that. Maybe Willis will become the more complete player, but I'd rather the potential elite pass rusher that can change games.
Harris' first step alone puts him a notch above. You can't teach that. That's what translates most to the next level as a pass rusher. I can see Willis getting shut down by solid tackles.
Well, just my opinion, but I would rather have Charles Harris and Raekwon McMillan over Rueben Foster and Jordan Willis, even though in the player I wanted was Foster, and I like Willis a lot. Problem with Rueben Foster and Jordan Willis is, there are too many question marks with both of them.
With Charles Harris and Raekwon McMillan you know exactly what you're getting, two very hard working talented player who each could lack one or more skills you would get with Rueben Foster and Jordan Willis (Harris lacks the ability against the run Willis brings, McMillan lacks the cverage skills you could get with Foster), but still less chance of it blowing up in your face.
With Charles Harris and Raekwon McMillan you know exactly what you're getting, two very hard working talented player who each could lack one or more skills you would get with Rueben Foster and Jordan Willis (Harris lacks the ability against the run Willis brings, McMillan lacks the cverage skills you could get with Foster), but still less chance of it blowing up in your face.
Fin Thirteen
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I think it would be more interesting to expand the question out to Harris/McMillan/Tankersley versus the other DE/LB/CB combos in rounds 1-3.
SO for example, would you prefer what we drafted to Tre White/McMillan/Deatrich Wise? Arguably, yes. Even though I'm not convinced Harris will be good enough against the run and Tre White would fit the slot role and give us boundary depth, the truth is Tankersley is probably a better prospect at CB than Wise is at DE.
Bowser/Awuzie/Lawson? Hmmmm. That could turn out to be a high risk, high reward set of three.
SO for example, would you prefer what we drafted to Tre White/McMillan/Deatrich Wise? Arguably, yes. Even though I'm not convinced Harris will be good enough against the run and Tre White would fit the slot role and give us boundary depth, the truth is Tankersley is probably a better prospect at CB than Wise is at DE.
Bowser/Awuzie/Lawson? Hmmmm. That could turn out to be a high risk, high reward set of three.
JakeemThe Dream
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Well it seemed a lot on here loved him as their 22nd pick ,yet he falls to the pick 73. That's a substantial drop.
There's obviously something that many teams didn't like round over round by passing on him.
Their conferences matter for sure. Who's the last Kansas State DE that's a stud? Idk honestly that's why I ask. Mizzou is a breeding ground for superior pass rushers. The list goes on...
The guy got picked 73rd. It's not like he fell out of the first.
We both can agree you can never have enough rushers?
Is he a dummy? That could've been a huge reason.
If not, why would someone with his amazing talent fall so far at a position of great importance? I just never thought he was as good as people thought.
Wake lit up the combine and didn't even make an NFL team.
Willis ran faster than Ricky..That shows how much the forty matters.
If you're correct, the bengals got a stud at 73. I don't mind being proven wrong at all.
There's something about him that scared teams away. That's not an opinion its just a fact.
Our FO must've thought differently that's all.
JakeemThe Dream
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Exactly why he dropped.