Chris Clemons- Complete Coverage on Clemons' Coverage

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by So Be, Jun 5, 2013.

  1. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    Clemons' play last season is still somewhat questioned in the eyes of many posters here. I took the time to see exactly what he did, game by game, in coverage, which I believe will make a point on how well he did.

    Houston- Was not targeted on any play.

    Oakland- One target, 0 complete.

    Jets- Gave up 2 complete in 2 targets for 27 yards, 0 YAC. one to Holmes fro 12, and one to Long for 15.

    Zona- One complete in 2 targets for 9 yards to Doucet, 0 to Fitz. YAC-2

    Cinci- 2 complete in 3 targets for 14 yards. Hawkins 3 yards, Green 11 yards.

    Rams- 3 complete in 3 targets for 63 yards. YAC 31 yards. Gave up a 65 yarder to Givens.

    Jets- Was not targeted on any play.

    Colts- 1 complete in 1 target for 48 yards to Avery.

    Titans- 0 complete in 1 target.

    Bills- 0 complete in 1 target.

    Seattle- 1 complete in 2 targets for 4 yards.

    Pats- 1 complete in 5 targets for 31 yards, 17 YAC to Hernandez.

    SF- Was not targeted on any play.

    Jax- 1 complete in 3 targets for 0 yards.

    Bills- 3 complete in 3 targets for 14 yards, 4 YAC.

    Pats- 1 complete in 1 target for 8 yards to Woodhead.

    Based on the above, fault him where you may. I see him giving up 2 big plays for the year, and Brady going after him 5 times, with one complete, and not going back there again in game #2. I also have to believe that he was not targeted more due to good coverage.

    A safety is more than just about coverage, and he played very well in run support.

    I rest my case.
     
  2. Phinsfan93

    Phinsfan93 A True Fan

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    Better than I expected. Hopefully he and Jones can keep it up.
     
  3. sirvmac

    sirvmac Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the write up!
     
  4. ITS!MATEO

    ITS!MATEO A True Fan

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    OP :clap:

    He was actually better in run support than Jones believe it or not. Clemons has always been extremely solid and this FO knows what they have in him.
     
  5. Schleprock

    Schleprock Mad and Surt...Legendary

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    ..........so good, that's why the front office didn't resign him until a week into free agency (when he was still available) for only a 1yr deal.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 5, 2013
  6. Wildbill3

    Wildbill3 Misery Loves Company Administrator Finheaven VIP

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    You do realize we had a bevy of potential CBs and safeties we could've signed, and out of names such as ED reed, we chose to resign clemmons to a "show us again" deal.
     
  7. Pat-London

    Pat-London A True Fan

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    Great work OP

    It's always tough, when doing work like this to be confident on assignment and therefore the appropriate level of success/failure. Did you give consideration to this?

    I like Clemons a lot, he's safe... and there in lies the problem that appears to be coming across on this forum. The expectation is that he should be more of a ball hawk with more picks and crushing blows a la the 49's FS [Goldson I believe] from last year. Now is that our expectation or is that the expectation of his DC, Kevin Coyle. Hard to know unless you know for sure what is being asked of him.

    In as far as the one year contract, I'm not so sure this is a show me contract versus a... let's wait and see what Kelcie McCray can do fully healthy - word on the streat is that he is viewed quite highly from the coaching staff. So Clemons could be a 'safe' one year stop gap while they groom their playmaker. Why spend more than you have to if you only want someone to caretake the position for a bit.

    I'm just surmising with my own thoughts on the matter,
     
  8. ITS!MATEO

    ITS!MATEO A True Fan

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    No way... That can't be.. Clemons sucks

    /sarcasm
     
  9. foozool13

    foozool13 #12 #13 #23 #29 #54 #99 Donator

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    Clemons is solid no argument there, but I want a guy who makes plays on the ball when the opportunity is there. I'm not asking the guy to be Eric Berry or generate plays on his own like Jones does. I just want him to make the plays there are there at least. I have seen multiple INTs just fall through his hands. Pull a couple of those in and we are not having this conversation.
     
  10. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    I do understand the point you are trying to make. However, if you look at this off season's FA, you will find many, many players who did not get what they were worth due to the salary cap.

    For me, I do not see what he signed for as having anything whatsoever in how he played last year, which was very well. If ya like, dispute his play, and not the contract. JMO
     
  11. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    Thanks Pat. I do not know of assignment but, can assess the success based on what I have seen, and researched on Clemons. I'm not putting him in the Pro Bowl. However, he is being graded and ranked vs other safeties, and there are not many who are VG, let alone great.

    Take a look, and tell me of 10 who are really good in coverage as well as run support. IMO, there are very few who are play makers, and many are comparing Clemons to the few who are.

    For anyone here, name 10 safeties who are? I've looked it up, and they are just not there. Correct me if I am wrong.
     
  12. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    some case...he's an average free safety with terrible hips who will never be more than average cause he has zero ball skills and instincts vs the passing game and without them no matter what you do in the end you will always grade out as average...exactly why he got a one year $2 mil offer in free agency...congrats
     
  13. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    And you would have replaced him with who? And you can name 10 safeties much better by name?

    Hate to pick on ya Hoops but, you make it so easy.
     
  14. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    i make it easy cause i don't buy bunk...miamis buying time at free safety...i don't blame em...but like crowder and some of these others before it won't be long before they decide they want more playmaking and game changing play at free safety...the guy doesn't make plays on the ball doesn't create turnovers...ball skills are not good for a free safety...is what it is...i'm glad he's back but this is no stud free safety either...plays the ball well when it's in front of him...late on stuff at times too cause the instincts and feel just aren't very good...
     
  15. uk_dolfan

    uk_dolfan Founder of the FH Adam Gase fan club Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    Clemons is fine.... Thats his issue hes ok, not good. Playing beside Jones he looks good. He plays mistake free football but is that enough in this new passing game?

    He signed a very low one year deal, cant help but think we could have signed him long term for a reasonable price if we had wanted to.
     
  16. uk_dolfan

    uk_dolfan Founder of the FH Adam Gase fan club Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    We signed him the same day we signed Mike Wallace. Day one of free agency.
     
  17. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    yeah and what should that tell you??? that the league wasn't banging down his door or anything...that money tells me that his options were very limited...it's a good signing for miami buys them time but til he starts making more plays in the passing game and showing better instincts and ball skills vs the pass he's gonna get offers like that...one year rental type stuff...\

    you sign day 1 of free agency for that money when you could continue to test the market tells me your agent heard crickets at the combine week and you weren't generating any buzz...so miami got what they needed out of it...another one year rental pretty damn cheap...better deal for miami given the money than for chris clemons that's for sure...
     
  18. uk_dolfan

    uk_dolfan Founder of the FH Adam Gase fan club Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    Even with little innitial interest, Miami really got a fantastic deal at that price. Surpised Rosenhaus/Clemmons didnt test the market a little considering what we signed him for.
     
  19. Wildbill3

    Wildbill3 Misery Loves Company Administrator Finheaven VIP

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    one year rental, average player, however he is consistant. He's a player you plug in and don't worry about. and I'll tell you hoops, not every team is going to be pro bowl talent at every position, and with Gerbal Wilson still fresh on my mind, i'll take a player back there that can be counted on to follow his assignments and doesn't get beat when the ball goes to his assignment. reload, see if one of the young guys shows enough to move on from clemmons next season, that works for me.
     
  20. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    Not selling bunk, just asking who you would have replaced him with, and 10 other safeties who had better years? Simple questions.
     
  21. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    no argument...my point though stands that unless you make plays on the ball in the passing game given that positon you will pretty much always grade out as average...he was solid in 2012...no argument...
     
  22. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    well considering we run a hybrid free and strong safety thing here under coyle i'm sure i can think of 10 guys i'd take over him...10 guys who impact the game more at the position and make plays vs the pass...
     
  23. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    Top ten, as per PFF:

    Weddle- 3 picks

    Byrd- 5 picks

    Jones- 4 picks

    Rhodes- 4 picks

    Mikell- 0 picks

    Ward- 1 pick

    Nelson- 3 picks

    Wilson- 0 picks

    Clark- 2 picks

    Moore- 1 pick

    Clemons had 2.
     
  24. Wildbill3

    Wildbill3 Misery Loves Company Administrator Finheaven VIP

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    I get what you're getting at, for me personally i'm not sure its something that's worth debating SB2. I like clemmons, and to quote starship troopers, he's our safety until we find someone better or he's dead. We'll probably do our best to find someone else (contingent upon his progress) next season. This season there were too many holes that Ireland wanted to fill, and clemmons already had experience in the system, thus potential to improve.
     
  25. uk_dolfan

    uk_dolfan Founder of the FH Adam Gase fan club Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    Stats are useful but should only be used to a certain extent
     
  26. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    Agree, not worth a debate. Just pointing out that there are not many good safeties out there, which is why Clemons gets a high rank.

    For another example, there are some on the OL who are in the top half in rankings but, they have negative grades in doing so. It's not that they are great or, even VG players, just what they are compared to the rest at their position.

    It's a bit like Wake. He was ranked #1 but, the #2 was half as good, while being #2.
     
  27. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    alright it appears you are gonna make me go thru the entire league and tell you who's a better football player at safety than chris clemons...and that's fine i will do just that...but i can't do it at this very moment...

    i know one name that i don't see mentioned that stands out already though is rodney mccloud in atlanta...he's a better football player any day...i will put the list together though for you as soon as i can
     
  28. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    Agree but, is that not what some posters are pointing to? A guy plays very well in coverage and run support but, does not have the INT's everyone would like.
     
  29. CallMeDaddy

    CallMeDaddy CMD Finheaven VIP

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    I've never heard of Rodney Mccloud, but Thomas Decoud is a damn good football player.
     
  30. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    Thanks Hoops, I look forward to it.
     
  31. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    ah crap....you got me...see what rushing got me??? well played...yeah thomas decoud....
     
  32. uk_dolfan

    uk_dolfan Founder of the FH Adam Gase fan club Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    But the only defence you are using are raw stats
     
  33. CallMeDaddy

    CallMeDaddy CMD Finheaven VIP

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    He has 3 interceptions in a 4 year career, and 2 of them are from the worst QB in the league. He's pretty good Safety, doesn't make a ton of mistakes, but never makes the big play. And when he does make a mistake it's usually a big one.

    He takes terrible routes to the runners on multiple occasions, his speed allows him to get away with more mistakes than most players.

    If you go back and look at the highlight of the mike goodson screen against the raiders, that he took to the house about 70 or so yards, it could've been just a 15 yard gain if Chris Clemons didn't take the worst route I've ever seen to a runner.

    He's not going to destroy our defense, but he can certainly be upgraded.
     
  34. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    The NFL, ranking Clemons at #5, are raw stats. PFF is the eyeball test on top of the stats. Both may be wrong, to a degree, However, it is no coincidence that the best players in the NFL are ranked as such by both.
     
  35. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    Good point on the Goodson/Raiders play, where he left Misi in his dust but, Clemons should have been able to make that play for 15 yards, as you say.

    Thing is, IMO, that was one play and there were 5-6 more where Clemons missed on what he could have done. Few look at the other 60 plays, over 1,000 for the year, and what was done by him. The other plays did matter.
     
  36. CallMeDaddy

    CallMeDaddy CMD Finheaven VIP

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    Like I said, he's not going to make enough mistakes to completely bash him, but he doesn't make enough plays to make up for it. He uses his speed to cover up his inability to really read and bait QB's, he waits and reacts and uses his speed to limit his mistsakes.

    And while he's certainly solid, he'll always be replaceable.
     
  37. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    Save a few, I do not know of many players on our team who have proven to not be replaceable.
     
  38. CallMeDaddy

    CallMeDaddy CMD Finheaven VIP

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    I personally don't mind bringing him back cheap, we got a good contract out of him and he's not just a waste of space. I just think signing him to a 1 year deal is telling him to show us you're the safety we're looking for. If he doesn't, he's not coming back.
     
  39. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    How would you compare his play vs Jones (who everyone loves)? They are very similar.
     
  40. CallMeDaddy

    CallMeDaddy CMD Finheaven VIP

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    Jones actually makes a play on the ball. If Clemons made a play on the ball like Jones does I don't think there would be very much complaining about him. Jones also seems to always come through in the clutch, he had 2 INTs when the Bengals and the Bills were driving to win the game.

    Jones takes much better routes to the runner, and has fluid hips and while he and Chris are always around the ball, Jones comes down with it and makes a play on it.
     

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