Deshaun Watson

[EJay]

What I remember is a lot of posters sided with Flores and they really turned against Fitzpatrick. A player Nick Saban stated was one of the hardest workers he ever had and a player who was willing to play wherever he was needed.

At the time many people thought it was Fitzpatrick who was the problem. Unfortunately it took a couple of years to realize who the real problem was.

I was initially one of those people. Even though I was defending the Minkah selection on this forum against the naysayers believing that taking a safety that high was not a good decision, I felt MF was being a baby not wanting to learn and play multiple positions.

In hindsight, while I still kinda feel both should shoulder some blame, I’m more than happy to concede that I was more wrong than right and that Flores (and his unknown personality issues at the time) was the bigger problem.

 

[EJay]

There is some serious revisionist history going on here thinking Flores was the only one who wanted Watson here.

You don’t positively know any differently.

I’d argue that Grier didn’t really want Watson so badly, since he didn’t actually make the move. I mean, he did draft Tua after all, apparently despite the objections of the then head coach.

When push came to shove, it was Flores that was fired while Tua remained a Miami Dolphin. Both things Chris Grier had direct control over.

 

[1972forever]

I do.

The final piece of the Minkah puzzle was when his mother... his freaking mother... went to the press and complained about how her baby boy was upset at how he was being used... after minkah had claimed to be completely willing to be used as a 'swiss army knife'.

Clearly... he'd been whining to Mommy.

I agree his mother should have stayed out of the matter completely. I just never saw any negative comments about Fitzpatrick when he was at Alabama or since he was traded to the Steelers.

The only problem he seemed to have was with Flores and unfortunately he must have talked to his mother and she decided to put her two cents into the issue.

I have no problem with a young player complaining to his family if he feels he is being mistreated. I do have a problem if the family member decides to take it public and complain in the media.

My view at the time was Flores and Fitzpatrick should have been able to sit down and figure out a way to resolve the issues they had with one another. Instead Flores decided the solution was to trade Fitzpatrick.

If Fitzpatrick had a history as a problem individual prior to the issue with Flores or since he went to the Steelers, I might be willing to view him as the problem. Yet he was never viewed as a problem player anywhere but in his short time under Flores.

So fair or not, I believe Flores was the real problem and I just don’t see Fitzpatrick having any problem playing for a coach like MCDaniel. If MCDaniel had been the HC instead of Flores and Fitzpatrick had an issue, I have no doubt MCDaniel would have sat down with Fitzpatrick and resolved the issue.

Flores just didn’t seem to have that type personality. He seemed to be the type that viewed the world as,“ my way or the highway”.

 

[EJay]

I never wanted him even if he wasn’t a pervert. His best season they still went 4-12. Nothing about him said “winner” to me.

Be fair. Houston qualified for the postseason during Watson’s 2nd and 3rd seasons as the Texans full-time starting QB (he only started 6 games his rookie season due to an ACL injury).

He even helped lead his team to a playoff win over Josh Allen and Buffalo before losing a shootout to Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs.

He started for 3 full seasons, with the last being the lone occasion the Texans didn’t win double digit games. Which also happened to be the season Bill O’Brien got fired for all his terrible front office dealings, which really set that franchise back.

Watson was 24-13 as a starter up until that point. And, as mentioned before, has a playoff win over Josh Allen.

Also factoring in his college career, Watson most definitely was a “winner“ prior to his self-destruction.

 

[1972forever]

Be fair. Houston qualified for the postseason during Watson’s 2nd and 3rd seasons as the Texans full-time starting QB (he only started 6 games his rookie season due to an ACL injury).

He even helped lead his team to a playoff win over Josh Allen and Buffalo before losing a shootout to Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs.

He started for 3 full seasons, with the last being the lone occasion the Texans didn’t win double digit games. Which also happened to be the season Bill O’Brien got fired for all his terrible front office dealings, which really set that franchise back.

Watson was 24-13 as a starter up until that point. And, as mentioned before, has a playoff win over Josh Allen.

Also factoring in his college career, Watson most definitely was a “winner“ prior to his self-destruction.

I stated at the time the trade rumors were going around that Watson was a better NFL QB than Tua, AT THAT TIME.

My issue with Watson is I just don’t think he is a good person and as a long time Dolphin fan, I just had no interest in the Dolphins trading for a person I see as a pervert.

At the time Tua was just learning to play in the NFL and he was struck behind a terrible offensive line, an awful offensive coaching staff and a HC who seemed to want to undermine him every chance he got.

So they still had no idea what type of QB Tua would turn out to be and Watson as you point out had been a solid starter in his time with the Texans.

We are just fortunate that the trade was never made and Tua ended up remaining in Miami instead of being traded to another NFL team. While in 2021 Watson was the better NFL QB, I believe in 2023 Tua is the better QB and I only expect him to continue to grow and end up having a much better career than Watson.

 

[Feverdream]

I agree his mother should have stayed out of the matter completely. I just never saw any negative comments about Fitzpatrick when he was at Alabama or since he was traded to the Steelers.

The only problem he seemed to have was with Flores and unfortunately he must have talked to his mother and she decided to put her two cents into the issue.

I have no problem with a young player complaining to his family if he feels he is being mistreated. I do have a problem if the family member decides to take it public and complain in the media.

My view at the time was Flores and Fitzpatrick should have been able to sit down and figure out a way to resolve the issues they had with one another. Instead Flores decided the solution was to trade Fitzpatrick.

If Fitzpatrick had a history as a problem individual prior to the issue with Flores or since he went to the Steelers, I might be willing to view him as the problem. Yet he was never viewed as a problem player anywhere but in his short time under Flores.

So fair or not, I believe Flores was the real problem and I just don’t see Fitzpatrick having any problem playing for a coach like MCDaniel. If MCDaniel had been the HC instead of Flores and Fitzpatrick had an issue, I have no doubt MCDaniel would have sat down with Fitzpatrick and resolved the issue.

Flores just didn’t seem to have that type personality. He seemed to be the type that viewed the world as,“ my way or the highway”.

I will agree with you up to one certain point.

When this broke, Minkah had the opportunity to say... please don't mind my mother, y'all know how mothers are. We can make this work... but he didn't.

He was happy to run away... and for all his talents, I think he is weak. He reminded me of that Offensive Tackle from the bully gate incident. Not a guy I want to be in a foxhole with I guess.

Talented guy... just not a leader.

 

[1972forever]

I will agree with you up to one certain point.

When this broke, Minkah had the opportunity to say... please don't mind my mother, y'all know how mothers are. We can make this work... but he didn't.

He was happy to run away... and for all his talents, I think he is weak. He reminded me of that Offensive Tackle from the bully gate incident. Not a guy I want to be in a foxhole with I guess.

Talented guy... just not a leader.

I understand your position and totally agree he should have responded differently when his mother decided to go public. I just saw it at the time as the Head Coach being unwilling to work with a player who the Dolphins drafted to be part of the building block for the teams future.

Neither Flores or Fitzpatrick were blameless in this situation but at the time I blames Flores more than Fitzpatrick. I understand why many posters were upset with Fitzpatrick and were happy to see him traded for a first round pick.

I just wasn’t one of those posters and I still wish they had worked out the problems and Fitzpatrick was still a member of the Dolphins. I believe with him at safety, the Dolphins would have the best safety duo in the entire league. Yet he is in Pittsburg and in the end it worked out for him and the Dolphins were able to draft Jackson.
‘Hopefully Jackson eventually works out and proves he was a worthy pick for the Dolphins trading Fitzpatrick.

 

[Feverdream]

I understand your position and totally agree he should have responded differently when his mother decided to go public. I just saw it at the time as the Head Coach being unwilling to work with a player who the Dolphins drafted to be part of the building block for the teams future.

Neither Flores or Fitzpatrick were blameless in this situation but at the time I blames Flores more than Fitzpatrick. I understand why many posters were upset with Fitzpatrick and were happy to see him traded for a first round pick.

I just wasn’t one of those posters and I still wish they had worked out the problems and Fitzpatrick was still a member of the Dolphins. I believe with him at safety, the Dolphins would have the best safety duo in the entire league. Yet he is in Pittsburg and in the end it worked out for him and the Dolphins were able to draft Jackson.
‘Hopefully Jackson eventually works out and proves he was a worthy pick for the Dolphins trading Fitzpatrick.

I absolutely believe that Flores was more at fault here. He is an older man and an authority figure... I don't care for Minkah, but Flores? Way worse... sadly, I've met WAY too many coaches like this guy.

 

[PCmor]

Dolphins never could have run the offense they have now if Watson was behind center. He holds the ball too long.

He'd also get crushed behind our current line as a result.

I never wanted him, but watching him with the Browns last night you really got a clear picture of the problems he has that sometimes get forgotten because of his impressive physical tools.

 

[PCmor]

I absolutely believe that Flores was more at fault here. He is an older man and an authority figure... I don't care for Minkah, but Flores? Way worse... sadly, I've met WAY too many coaches like this guy.

To be fair, you've officiated most of those coaches.

 

[EJay]

I stated at the time the trade rumors were going around that Watson was a better NFL QB than Tua, AT THAT TIME.

My issue with Watson is I just don’t think he is a good person and as a long time Dolphin fan, I just had no interest in the Dolphins trading for a person I see as a pervert.

At the time Tua was just learning to play in the NFL and he was struck behind a terrible offensive line, an awful offensive coaching staff and a HC who seemed to want to undermine him every chance he got.

So they still had no idea what type of QB Tua would turn out to be and Watson as you point out had been a solid starter in his time with the Texans.

We are just fortunate that the trade was never made and Tua ended up remaining in Miami instead of being traded to another NFL team. While in 2021 Watson was the better NFL QB, I believe in 2023 Tua is the better QB and I only expect him to continue to grow and end up having a much better career than Watson.

You and I seem to be in lock step on all this. I was just pushing back on royalshank’s (and others) assertion that Watson hasn’t been a winner.

Clearly you understand that he was an elite level QB prior to all the drama, and that Tua had the potential to be as good or better which is why neither of us wanted to see a move made.

So far, what we thought was true is becoming true.

 

[Feverdream]

To be fair, you've officiated most of those coaches.

...and have ejected so few of them.

 

[fishfanmiami]

Good discussion guys however Watson does not play for our team so i am moving this to the NFL forum

Plus fuk him. Trading for him would have been one of the biggest blunders ever for the Fins

 

[TheMageGandalf]

I am not one of those who thinks Tua has a weak arm. He can make every throw needed in the NFL and the fact he can’t throw it as far as some other QB’s is irrelevant to me. There just aren’t a lot of offensive plays that call for the QB to hit a receiver 70 yards downfield.

You don't need a bazooka to kill a flea.

Just ask cool Joe...because Montana wasn't launching it 70 yards downfield to Rice....but what was it? 4 SB rings? said that was Ok.

 

[BrowardDolfan]

You don’t positively know any differently.

I’d argue that Grier didn’t really want Watson so badly, since he didn’t actually make the move. I mean, he did draft Tua after all, apparently despite the objections of the then head coach.

When push came to shove, it was Flores that was fired while Tua remained a Miami Dolphin. Both things Chris Grier had direct control over.

It was only reported that way through every major media outlet that Ross held up the deal because 2 of the 22 accusers refused to settle, but believe what you like.

And you're right, he did draft Tua which makes his, let's say "near betrayal", all the more concerning that he would give up on him that quickly. And remember, the trade rumors started in August 2021, cooled off, and then ramped up again in October 2021 right before the trading deadline. This wasn't a last minute situation. Luckily for the Dolphins, the 2 accusers didn't settle and Grier grew a backbone by the end of the 2021 season.