Dolphins' roster casualty and extension candidate | Page 6 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Dolphins' roster casualty and extension candidate

ChrisJNelson said:
I can't help fix your memory. There is nothing Welker did in Miami (save for that game where he served as our kicker) that Bess hasn't done. If anything, Bess has done it better in Miami.
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My memory is fine. Miami was just learning how to use Welker and we had Joey harrington at qb. of course Bess has done better in Miami he has been here much longer than Welker was in Miami. He is a starter and Welker was not we had a former pro bowler and a future pro bowler at wr keeping him off field. even Miami does not believe Bess is all that based on his contract
 
dlockz said:
My memory is fine. Miami was just learning how to use Welker and we had Joey harrington at qb. of course Bess has done better in Miami he has been here much longer than Welker was in Miami. He is a starter and Welker was not we had a former pro bowler and a future pro bowler at wr keeping him off field. even Miami does not believe Bess is all that based on his contract
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Bess has no value in "sticking it" to a division rival like Welker does in New England, nor does he have the fanfare or a rapport with an already-established elite quarterback. But if you look at Bess' numbers in Miami and honestly don't believe he could significantly improve them as the PATRIOTS' slot guy, you're nuts.
 
ChrisJNelson said:
Bess has no value in "sticking it" to a division rival like Welker does in New England, nor does he have the fanfare or a rapport with an already-established elite quarterback. But if you look at Bess' numbers in Miami and honestly don't believe he could significantly improve them as the PATRIOTS' slot guy, you're nuts.
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Never said he couldnt somewhat improve them Im saying he would not do what Welker has done in NE
 
dlockz said:
Never said he couldnt somewhat improve them Im saying he would not do what Welker has done in NE
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Comparing Bess' best year (2010) to Welker's 122-catch year, here's the difference:
-2.7 more catches per game for Welker
-3.1 more targets per game for Welker
-47 more yards per game for Welker

Pretty sure Bess could've boosted his Miami performance up to those levels in an elite offense with Tom Brady.
 
ChrisJNelson said:
Comparing Bess' best year (2010) to Welker's 122-catch year, here's the difference:
-2.7 more catches per game for Welker
-3.1 more targets per game for Welker
-47 more yards per game for Welker

Pretty sure Bess could've boosted his Miami performance up to those levels in an elite offense with Tom Brady.
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U could use would have and could have's with all kinds of players but no I dont think even in NE that Bess would have 5 110 receptions seasons or even one

I mean seriously 3 more receptions per game is alot and he is targeted exactly 3 more times so Welker makes all of those catches.
Here is the difference Welker has done it and nobody else has ever done it. So we know one thing for a fact , that Welker can do it everything else is all speculation
 
ChrisJNelson said:
See? That's just nonsense.
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No thats my opinion and nothing u can present can invalidate it. You can say maybe and thats about it. You dealing in what ifs. Thats still 31 more receptions than he has ever had. How many other ne receivers have ever done that ? Its far from a sure thing that Bess would do it
 
dlockz said:
No thats my opinion and nothing u can present can invalidate it. You can say maybe and thats about it. You dealing in what ifs. Thats still 31 more receptions than he has ever had. How many other ne receivers have ever done that ? Its far from a sure thing that Bess would do it
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Of course we can't know since Bess was never on the Patriots in the team's prime, but we can use our brains and player evaluation skills. Like I showed, Bess would just need 2-3 more catches a game in New England than he gets in Miami. Based on what I've seen of Bess (and I'm not a HUGE fan of the guy because there's no upside and he's pure slot), I'd say it's pretty obvious he could accomplish that kind of production boost in the Patriots' environment.
 
ChrisJNelson said:
Of course we can't know since Bess was never on the Patriots in the team's prime, but we can use our brains and player evaluation skills. Like I showed, Bess would just need 2-3 more catches a game in New England than he gets in Miami. Based on what I've seen of Bess (and I'm not a HUGE fan of the guy because there's no upside and he's pure slot), I'd say it's pretty obvious he could accomplish that kind of production boost in the Patriots' environment.
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Well last I checked we both have brains. You summize that any good slot receiver could put up these numbers. My brain tells me that what he had one in NE is special and not just any good slot reciever could do it.
Thats like the arguement that Bush could lead the league in rushing based on his average per carry and that if he ran the ball more he would. Teams prepare for Wes Welker and he still week in and week out produces at a level that no receiver has ever done. No he is not a deep threat but he is the best at what he does and Bess is not in his class. If it was so easy every good team would have a guy putting up Welker numbers.
 
dlockz said:
Well last I checked we both have brains. You summize that any good slot receiver could put up these numbers. My brain tells me that what he had one in NE is special and not just any good slot reciever could do it.
Thats like the arguement that Bush could lead the league in rushing based on his average per carry and that if he ran the ball more he would. Teams prepare for Wes Welker and he still week in and week out produces at a level that no receiver has ever done. No he is not a deep threat but he is the best at what he does and Bess is not in his class. If it was so easy every good team would have a guy putting up Welker numbers.
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It's not easy, but it's not easy because 31 teams don't have Belichick and Brady, not because 31 teams don't have Welker. ;)
 
ChrisJNelson said:
It's not easy, but it's not easy because 31 teams don't have Belichick and Brady, not because 31 teams don't have Welker. ;)
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Last time I checked other teams have good coach and qb combos. Peytong manning never had a slot receiver produce like that over an over
 
ChrisJNelson said:
I'm not sure why there's the misconception here that I'm saying these guys will be cut. I'm simply exploring reasoning for and against. As I say with practically each guy, I don't see a move looming simply because of team need and abundant cap space already.

As for your post, hooshoops, I appreciate the detail and opinions. Always fun to discuss.

And finally, as for Bess--like I said, maybe he doesn't get cut this year. But my question is if you re-sign Hartline, sign a starting free agent and draft one or two guys high that you expect to contribute, do you really pay Bess what he's making to be that third, fourth or fifth guy when he doesn't even play special teams. Like I said, I get the fanfare here because he's a great story, but anyone that thinks there's a ton of upside there or that he's irreplaceable is mistaken.

---------- Post added at 02:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:25 PM ----------



Bess is Welker. He's Amendola. He's well below the elite slot receiver in the game, which is Victor Cruz. He's a pure slot guy and there are fairly easy to replace. I like Bess too but he doesn't offer any upside or playmaking ability. The Dolphins wouldn't miss him if they re-signed Hartline and did their job acquiring talent in the draft and free agency.
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I disagree with your Bess assessment. He is a playmaker as he is virtually "Mr. First Down" and has tremendous hands. If your definition is only about touchdowns then yes he isn't but the lack of touchdowns has a lot to do with overall QB play as much as defenses scheming on Bess because he's our only option. IMO of course.
 
If Dan Marino was on the 49ers he would have matched Montana's superbowls
 
matt11390 said:
I disagree with your Bess assessment. He is a playmaker as he is virtually "Mr. First Down" and has tremendous hands. If your definition is only about touchdowns then yes he isn't but the lack of touchdowns has a lot to do with overall QB play as much as defenses scheming on Bess because he's our only option. IMO of course.
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I'm not trying to criticize Bess. I think he's good at what he does. I just mean a playmaker in that he doesn't have the size to come down with deep balls, doesn't have the speed to stretch the field. But there is absolutely something to be said for a good slot receiver that can catch those short passes, convert third downs, etc. Bess is limited and isn't going to get much better than he already is, but he absolutely is good in his role.
 
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