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Dolphins' roster casualty and extension candidate

It pains me to see there are still Dolphins fans that think Welker is all that special, and at the same time probably still angry the Dolphins traded him.

For the last time--yes, Bess is Welker. I'm not sure if you've looked, but when Welker was in Miami (a much crappier team with no legitimate quarterback), he was a solid slot receiver that barely averaged 10 yards a catch and couldn't find the end zone very often. In Miami (without a regular capable quarterback), Bess has absolutely matched everything about his production.

I know Welker's constant production and 120+ catches seem, gaudy, but the reality is he is very much a product of the system he's in. He has a fantastic head coach (who loves shaming rivals), an elite quarterback who gets infinite time to throw, and has constantly been around other talent on offense (Moss, Gronk, etc.). Welker is a good slot receiver--he plays on mismatches, has good hands, runs crisp routes. But he is not an elite wideout in the sense of a Fitzgerald or Calvin Johnson or AJ Green. Is a good slot guy and that is all.

That is what Bess is, and there is no doubt in my mind Bess could replicate Welker's success if he were in New England. He has all the same attributes and doesn't lack in any categories. He IS Welker. A good slot guy with reliable hands. He easily matched Welker's production in Miami and Welker's production in New England is simply the result of a better quarterback, better offense and more passing attempts.

Hell, look at what Mike Furrey did with the Lions in his career year. Being a slot guy has its challenges but the production is almost entirely the result of mismatches and the nature of the position--short, high-percentage routes and throws. Look at Danny Amendola. It's all the same thing. Don't overrate Welker because he's in an elite offense that allows him to catch more balls than most.

Stop kicking yourself because the Dolphins traded Welker. While they essentially gained nothing from the trade, they also replaced him almost instantly with an identical player and wouldn't have been any better off these past six years with Welker in Miami. Plus he's turned into quite a ****y douche since he left, and I have no need for him.
 
ChrisJNelson said:
It pains me to see there are still Dolphins fans that think Welker is all that special, and at the same time probably still angry the Dolphins traded him.

For the last time--yes, Bess is Welker. I'm not sure if you've looked, but when Welker was in Miami (a much crappier team with no legitimate quarterback), he was a solid slot receiver that barely averaged 10 yards a catch and couldn't find the end zone very often. In Miami (without a regular capable quarterback), Bess has absolutely matched everything about his production.

I know Welker's constant production and 120+ catches seem, gaudy, but the reality is he is very much a product of the system he's in. He has a fantastic head coach (who loves shaming rivals), an elite quarterback who gets infinite time to throw, and has constantly been around other talent on offense (Moss, Gronk, etc.). Welker is a good slot receiver--he plays on mismatches, has good hands, runs crisp routes. But he is not an elite wideout in the sense of a Fitzgerald or Calvin Johnson or AJ Green. Is a good slot guy and that is all.

That is what Bess is, and there is no doubt in my mind Bess could replicate Welker's success if he were in New England. He has all the same attributes and doesn't lack in any categories. He IS Welker. A good slot guy with reliable hands. He easily matched Welker's production in Miami and Welker's production in New England is simply the result of a better quarterback, better offense and more passing attempts.

Hell, look at what Mike Furrey did with the Lions in his career year. Being a slot guy has its challenges but the production is almost entirely the result of mismatches and the nature of the position--short, high-percentage routes and throws. Look at Danny Amendola. It's all the same thing. Don't overrate Welker because he's in an elite offense that allows him to catch more balls than most.

Stop kicking yourself because the Dolphins traded Welker. While they essentially gained nothing from the trade, they also replaced him almost instantly with an identical player and wouldn't have been any better off these past six years with Welker in Miami. Plus he's turned into quite a ****y douche since he left, and I have no need for him.
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If what welker does is so not special how come nobody else has ever done it in NE. If he is such a product of the system why is he the only guy that has done that. People kill me with that crap that Bess would do the same. Better receivers in NE have not done the same. Again why has no other player in this elite offense ever did these things, simple answer because Welker is much better than u give him credit for.
 
dlockz said:
If what welker does is so not special how come nobody else has ever done it in NE. If he is such a product of the system why is he the only guy that has done that. People kill me with that crap that Bess would do the same. Better receivers in NE have not done the same. Again why has no other player in this elite offense ever did these things, simple answer because Welker is much better than u give him credit for.
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I'm not saying Welker is bad, but he's not elite either. Victor Cruz plays extensively out of the slot and you see what he does. (He's actually better than Welker because he's faster and has more deep-play ability.) But it's obvious that guys like Bess and Amendola are fully capable of the same thing, only their reception/yardage totals aren't as high because of the teams they are on.
 
dlockz said:
If what welker does is so not special how come nobody else has ever done it in NE. If he is such a product of the system why is he the only guy that has done that. People kill me with that crap that Bess would do the same. Better receivers in NE have not done the same. Again why has no other player in this elite offense ever did these things, simple answer because Welker is much better than u give him credit for.
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Because :crazy:
 
ChrisJNelson said:
I'm not saying Welker is bad, but he's not elite either. Victor Cruz plays extensively out of the slot and you see what he does. (He's actually better than Welker because he's faster and has more deep-play ability.) But it's obvious that guys like Bess and Amendola are fully capable of the same thing, only their reception/yardage totals aren't as high because of the teams they are on.
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maybe obvious to u. yes cruz and many others are faster but welker is way better than u give him credit for, too enamoured with measurables and not what he does on field
 
dlockz said:
maybe obvious to u. yes cruz and many others are faster but welker is way better than u give him credit for, too enamoured with measurables and not what he does on field
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It's the measurables that limit what he does. He can't play out wide or go deep. He can't stretch the field or outrun people. What he can do is catch the ball when he sits down in a hole with linebackers tasked to cover him. That's what slot guys do. And that's what he does. But he's not this incredible talent the Dolphins let slip away. They traded him because he was replaceable and they replaced him easily. The only regret Miami fans should have is that they turned that steal of a second-rounder into nothing of substance.
 
ChrisJNelson said:
It's the measurables that limit what he does. He can't play out wide or go deep. He can't stretch the field or outrun people. What he can do is catch the ball when he sits down in a hole with linebackers tasked to cover him. That's what slot guys do. And that's what he does. But he's not this incredible talent the Dolphins let slip away. They traded him because he was replaceable and they replaced him easily. The only regret Miami fans should have is that they turned that steal of a second-rounder into nothing of substance.
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Correction they traded him because they had no choice , we tendered him at a cheaper level and NE bit on it. Welker is one of the best at what he does ever and if u want to fool yourself into thinking that he is only beating lb's I guess u havent watched the games. there is nothing special about Welker except what he does on field. Teams know where NE is going on key plays and yet Welker still makes the play. 5 seasons 110 receptions or more and people still wanna act like he is just another guy on this board. No Welker is not a deep threat but players get it done all kinds of ways and that doesnt make him any less of a receiver.
 
dlockz said:
Correction they traded him because they had no choice , we tendered him at a cheaper level and NE bit on it. Welker is one of the best at what he does ever and if u want to fool yourself into thinking that he is only beating lb's I guess u havent watched the games. there is nothing special about Welker except what he does on field. Teams know where NE is going on key plays and yet Welker still makes the play. 5 seasons 110 receptions or more and people still wanna act like he is just another guy on this board. No Welker is not a deep threat but players get it done all kinds of ways and that doesnt make him any less of a receiver.
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No, it makes him Davone Bess.
 
ChrisJNelson said:
No, it makes him Davone Bess.
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Well like I said your opinion but Bess is no Welker he is a poor man's Welker. Please tell me why no other receiver in NFL history has ever done the things that Welker has done if he is so non elite. people have tried to use its just Brady but he had 111 receptions with Cassel. People tried to say it was Moss on other side and he is still doing it years later. Teams know that Brady is looking to go to Welker and he still gets open and makes the play thats a sign of true greatness
 
dlockz said:
Well like I said your opinion but Bess is no Welker he is a poor man's Welker. Please tell me why no other receiver in NFL history has ever done the things that Welker has done if he is so non elite. people have tried to use its just Brady but he had 111 receptions with Cassel. People tried to say it was Moss on other side and he is still doing it years later. Teams know that Brady is looking to go to Welker and he still gets open and makes the play thats a sign of true greatness
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I feel sorry for people that think Welker is "great." Such a waste of regret.
 
I honestly wonder what people are missing in regards to Mike Wallace...

Davone Bess, who already gets open with ease, will have more space to work with..

Brian Hartline, who just put up 1000+ yards going against #1 corners all year, will be going against #2's and will also have more space...

Our tight end (im hoping for tyler eifert) will be able to settle anywhere on the field and be open....bc...

Lamar Miller is in our backfield. Ryan Tannehill play-action with Lamar Miller in the backfield and Mike Wallace willing and able to get behind ANY DEFENSE IN THE LEAGUE at ANY TIME is absolutely lethal...

The days of putting 8 in the box v the Fins are over. You better keep your FS 25 yards back..

To me, the key to this off season is Mike Wallace. We sign him, and we can draft BPA every round for the next 3 years. Mike Wallace deserves BIG money. And i don't care if he's had an attitude in Pitt. If Stephen Ross is serious about rejuvenating this franchise...this is precisely how you do it.
 
Tiko377 said:
ehhh feel weird about Misi but it doesnt seem like he has passion for the game... i remember reading articles that he never watched a game of football.

but he did improve this year then his previous year.
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Did you watch the Dolphins AT ALL this year? Koa Misi is the most relentless player we have on defense...him and Cam Wake. And he, simply put, does NOT miss tackles.

I could care less if he likes watching football growing up. He has that samoan warrior streak in his blood and i definitely want that dude on my team..
 
dcnr226 said:
Did you watch the Dolphins AT ALL this year? Koa Misi is the most relentless player we have on defense...him and Cam Wake. And he, simply put, does NOT miss tackles.

I could care less if he likes watching football growing up. He has that samoan warrior streak in his blood and i definitely want that dude on my team..
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I think you're a little to excited about Misi. He had a strong year but there's little upside there and he's nothing but a solid run stopper. I have to imagine he only has another year or so starting before he's upgraded in Miami. He's also of Hawaiian descent, not Samoan...
 
ChrisJNelson said:
I feel sorry for people that think Welker is "great." Such a waste of regret.
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i feel sorry for people that somehow want to rationilize away what a great player Welker is. They see it with their own eyes and still want to make up a reason for why its happening.
There is a reason NE dropped crazy money at the time on a player such as Welker to aquire him, they recognized something in him and they were right. I have no regret because at time the trade seemed more than good. I did not see Welker as that type of player at the time and most people didnt. NE recognized it more power to them, there is a reason they are where they are. So go through life thinking that Bess or others are just as good at what they do its your right but doesnt make you right. Meanwhile 672 receptions later.
 
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