Draft two Quarterbacks. | Page 6 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Draft two Quarterbacks.

Every QB needs a bunch a work coming in. Tom Brady wasn't "Tom" until after they won that second 'chip'
Tom Brady was pretty good qb in college. Drew Henson was never better than brady but he was like number 1 qb in nation going to Michigan..N.E made good choices the rest is history.
 
Kyle Allen is not putting butts in seats, imho. Let Ross worry about fan. Allen is looking pretty good as 2nd yr qb. Carolina got big decisions to make at end of yr. This was just a ideas..
 
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If Grier is THE guy, meaning no Tannenbaum, and he has the GM firepower we hired this year, then there will only be one QB chosen. Picking 2 is not trying to find the right guy, it's we can't find the right guy.
 
You draft the best available QB with the high pick whoever the **** he is but, you better be 1000% in love with his ass. Capisci. Then in the later rounds you draft another always maybe in 2nd or 4th round. We have 14 picks (there will be multiple positions of 2 or more picks bank it). 2 QB's 2 T 2 G/C 2 DB 2 DE 2 LB 2 DT. Plus, draft 10 Undrafted Rookies for a total of 24 new faces come April. Diamonds in the rough you never know. That's the plan all along since March 2019. Have all 4 QB's battle it out an best performance (in OTA's, Training Camp, practice, and pre-season wins starting job. Even if its Fitz for one more year.
 
While there are some similarities, it’s ultimately a different situation. Bill O’Brien didn’t gut the roster when he came in. He had an established roster with some stars on defense to lean on to rack up some winning seasons in a bad division early on. He had 3 straight 9-7 seasons with journeymen QBs like Fitzpatrick, Keemun, Hoyer and Osweiler. Two of those seasons won the division. That bought him enough time to get around to drafting Watson.

Flores will have no such luxury. I just don’t see how he can survive what will likely be multiple losing seasons without a young QB for fans to get excited about for the future.


Simple. That division doesn't have BB and Brady. It took 10 years for the Texans to beat the Patriots.
 
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Simple. That division doesn't have BB and Brady. It took 10 years for the Texans to beat the Patriots.
Good or bad ,The texans are in playoff every yr. That give thier coach time in nfl. Same thing Flores will need to do.. the keep is GM going forward...
 
If you take a QB high in the 1st and then take one in the 2nd you have no business in the league. You might as well announce that you don't think you took the right guy with your 1st which makes you look inept.

In other words...pure fear. The Miami Dolphins need to prioritize fear above all.

In the final months of my dad's life he provided a great summary that I'll never forget. I may have mentioned it previously. It went something like, "When you are a baby you're thrilled when you notice that other people are paying attention to you. Then you go through life paranoid about what other people think of you. As an old man you realize nobody gave a damn."

Exactly. Everyone has their own problems. It takes two to be embarrassed. Only fools volunteer themselves as embarrassed to the world. That lends to a life of avoiding clothes because they aren't in style, etc. A life of constantly worrying about what others are thinking, even if it's to your own detriment. On Miami Hurricanes sites they have been convinced that the FIU loss was the worst loss in program history, that the entire college football world is laughing at them. Meanwhile my sister's husband in Orlando is a Canes hater and always makes a related dig. When I was there for Thanksgiving he had no idea the loss to FIU happened at all.

He has his own issues to worry about. I saw and heard about plenty of them.

Sports is still in primitive stage, compared to where it's headed. Football analytics are catching up to the point that punting will steadily decline. You'll eventually see golfers putting both ways, just like baseball players picked up on switch hitting early. That was actually well ahead of its time. Countless other examples. The 3 point shot in college basketball makes sense given the distance and the math. Rick Pitino was among the early understanders. Then others improved on his application.

Drafting two quarterbacks has been done previously. I have provided examples like Joe Namath immediately followed by John Huarte with the Jets in 1965. Weeb Ewbank was not devoted to fear. He came to the Jets after serving as head coach of the Colts, where he saw the impact of Johnny Unitas. Ewbank was nearly fired multiple times before Unitas saved matters and won two NFL titles under Ewbank.

Everything tends to drift back to the beginning. I think my age helps because as a young boy I saw examples like Griese drafted one year after Rick Norton, and heard about the Namath/Huarte situation even if it was before my attention span was ready. If Joe Thomas was so embarrassed at what the league might think of himself and the Dolphins, then he probably dedicates to fear in 1967 and never drafts Bob Griese in the first round.

If two guys fit your criteria, then absolutely they should be taken and other chess pieces ignored. I'm not a huge fan of conventional wisdom when it strays from logic and value. The value in the current NFL is making darn sure you are near the top of the heap in quarterback play...year after year. That enables close games to fall your way. Sure they'll be down seasons. You don't care. You own the card. The teams that rely on piece by piece but lack the quarterback are in rebuild mode all the time. It's never as great as it looks. Seattle was eligible to restore quickly and somehow sit at 10-2 with a mediocre roster, while Denver is flopping around.

***

BTW, Jake Fromm has massive opportunity this week. Everything sets up for him. I'm not clear on how the quarterbacks settle this year. Fromm may be a hand size reject. But if he's ever going to restore and reassert, this is the week. Georgia was rated above LSU in preseason. Fromm was obviously rated well above Joe Burrow. Georgia has a far superior defense to LSU. Yet the college football world expects this week to be a ho-hum renouncement of Burrow and LSU clearly above Fromm and Georgia.
 
Drafting QBs in sequential years is not the same as taking two in the same draft.

QBs are difficult enough to identify and give the proper coaching so they can shine... without splitting your attention between two of them right out of the box; never mind the issues created by trying to roster two green QBs at the same time.

Draft one this year, draft another next year... or if you must take two, take the second one on the third day and cut him in hopes he makes it to the practice squad.
 
I gave a lot of full-throated cries in protest at spending a 2nd round pick on Josh Rosen, when that pick could've been used on Juan Thornhill or Chase Winovich. But even I'm a little surprised that the people who were in heavy support of that decision have essentially forgotten he exists, and are now pondering the merits of taking two QBs in the first couple of days of the 2020 draft.

I get that there's a consistency to it. Keep stabbing at the problem until you kill it. It's just that it's only been like half a minute since so many of those people were acting like anyone who disagrees about the wisdom of the trade is a simpleton.

All that Josh Rosen has managed to show in that half-minute is that he'll struggle behind a terrible OL (which we already knew from Arizona), whereas Ryan Fitzpatrick (who has established a long career of being more of a spark plug versus pressure) will do better under those same conditions. We've learned that Rosen, whose college coaches warned this would be the case, takes a bit of time to really learn a new offense. In other words, we didn't learn anything we didn't already know.

But now he's yesterday's refuse.

It just goes to show why I argued so often and so strongly that this was a wrong-headed idea in the first place. There was never a realistic win scenario. He could defy my projections and turn out to be a truly delightful quarterback, but the Miami Dolphins were never destined to find that out for themselves. Or at least, if Miami fans have their way, they'll never find that out for themselves.

As for the idea of selecting two quarterbacks in the 2020 draft, I am not sure that I am on board with that. I have long subscribed to the policy espoused by many of you, keep stabbing at the problem until it's dead. But I also think you've got to be smart about it, hence the disagreement about the Josh Rosen trade. There's no sense pissing away valuable resources in exchange for no-win scenarios.

One hesitation I have about the double-dip is that QB classes can have a tendency sometimes to have contagious risk to the downside. There are classes out there where it didn't matter if you took QB1 or QB10. Inevitably, you end up comparing these QBs to one another, and that can result in the entire crowd being overrated. Double-dip one of those classes and you end up with a weird risk scenario where if your 1st QB ends up being a waste of resources, the odds increase that your 2nd QB is also a waste of resources.

Another hesitation I have is that, like it or not, Ryan Fitzpatrick is going to be here in 2020 because they value his ability to mentor and teach a new kid (like, hopefully, Tua Tagovailoa). And yet, Josh Rosen is probably going to be here as well. The seats start to fill up and there are only so many reps to go around. You need reps to try and improve these guys. You also need reps to try and find out what they have, so that you don't make the mistake of shoving the wrong one out the door. If you were ever thinking about double-dipping the 2020 class then you certainly should not have bothered with the Josh Rosen trade...and maybe it should work the opposite way, too (trading for Josh Rosen means you should not double-dip in 2020). Although, since I never held out much hope for Josh Rosen, I'm not 100% sold on this particular line of logic. But the Dolphins most likely are.

But I am susceptible in particular to what Awsi brought up about IF two quarterbacks come up that fit your system and evaluation standards. You're not just drafting two to draft two. You would be taking Tua Tagovailoa, and the finding that Jordan Love or Jake Fromm are still available to you in the 2nd or 3rd round, and saying well crap, I didn't expect these guys to still be available and it can't hurt to get another one.
 
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If we draft Tua and another QB that we like is available in the 2nd or 3rd round then yes draft two. The Redskins did this with RG3 and Kirk Cousins in 2012. The Tua injuries concern me. So insurance would be nice but what happens with Rosen?
 
I gave a lot of full-throated cries in protest at spending a 2nd round pick on Josh Rosen, when that pick could've been used on Juan Thornhill or Chase Winovich. But even I'm a little surprised that the people who were in heavy support of that decision have essentially forgotten he exists, and are now pondering the merits of taking two QBs in the first couple of days of the 2020 draft.

I get that there's a consistency to it. Keep stabbing at the problem until you kill it. It's just that it's only been like half a minute since so many of those people were acting like anyone who disagrees about the wisdom of the trade is a simpleton.

All that Josh Rosen has managed to show in that half-minute is that he'll struggle behind a terrible OL (which we already knew from Arizona), whereas Ryan Fitzpatrick (who has established a long career of being more of a spark plug versus pressure) will do better under those same conditions. We've learned that Rosen, whose college coaches warned this would be the case, takes a bit of time to really learn a new offense. In other words, we didn't learn anything we didn't already know.

But now he's yesterday's refuse.

It just goes to show why I argued so often and so strongly that this was a wrong-headed idea in the first place. There was never a realistic win scenario. He could defy my projections and turn out to be a truly delightful quarterback, but the Miami Dolphins will never find that out for themselves. Or at least, if Miami fans have their way, they'll never find that out for themselves.

As for the idea of selecting two quarterbacks in the 2020 draft, I am not sure that I am on board with that. I have long subscribed to the policy espoused by many of you, keep stabbing at the problem until it's dead. But I also think you've got to be smart about it, hence the disagreement about the Josh Rosen trade. There's no sense pissing away valuable resources in exchange for no-win scenarios.

One hesitation I have about the double-dip is that QB classes can have a tendency sometimes to have contagious risk to the downside. There are classes out there where it didn't matter if you took QB1 or QB10. Inevitably, you end up comparing these QBs to one another, and that can result in the entire crowd being overrated. Double-dip one of those classes and you end up with a weird risk scenario where if your 1st QB ends up being a waste of resources, the odds increase that your 2nd QB is also a waste of resources.

Another hesitation I have is that, like it or not, Ryan Fitzpatrick is going to be here in 2020 because they value his ability to mentor and teach a new kid (like, hopefully, Tua Tagovailoa). And yet, Josh Rosen is probably going to be here as well. The seats start to fill up and there are only so many reps to go around. You need reps to try and improve these guys. You also need reps to try and find out what they have, so that you don't make the mistake of shoving the wrong one out the door. If you were ever thinking about double-dipping the 2020 class then you certainly should not have bothered with the Josh Rosen trade...and maybe it should work the opposite way, too (trading for Josh Rosen means you should not double-dip in 2020). Although, since I never held out much hope for Josh Rosen, I'm not 100% sold on this particular line of logic. But the Dolphins most likely are.

But I am susceptible in particular to what Awsi brought up about IF two quarterbacks come up that fit your system and evaluation standards. You're not just drafting two to draft two. You would be taking Tua Tagovailoa, and the finding that Jordan Love or Jake Fromm are still available to you in the 2nd or 3rd round, and saying well crap, I didn't expect these guys to still be available and it can't hurt to get another one.

I've been high on Rosen since day one. Yes, he needs a clear pocket, and yes, it may take him a bit to get things figured out, but I'm old school. I still believe in letting a pocket QB sit for a bit.

My take has been... fix the line (bring in a FA Guard, draft a Tackle and a Center, or even two tackles in the first) and put Rosen in for all of 2020. I wouldn't keep Fitzpatrick at all. Thank him for his service and then allow him to leave as a valued mentor, but now process-stopping piece.

Couple this with the drafting of a QB in this draft and let that guy sit for a year while we evaluate Rosen fairly.

I won't throw a tantrum if they don't do this, after all... the coaches have seen Rosen in dozens of practices and I haven't. But to me, this seems like a pragmatic approach to development.
 
Fitz has one year left on his contract and Tua can not only sit a year but is better off going straight to IR for the year.

We keep Fitz and Rosen one more year. Hope Rosen beats Fitz at some point.

2021 we start Rosen and sit Tua. I think 1 yr to IR and another year sitting will do Tua and his hip well.

2022 is Tua-time.
 
I have a sneaky feeling the fins will end up with both Hubert and Fromm or fromm and Hurts
I don’t have that feeling ,but we need two tackles though and two pass rushers deep draft for tackles.
 
If Grier isn't truly sold on a QB this draft, than for the love of all things holy, don't draft just a guy (IMO, Fromm and Herbert are just a guy). If Tua declares for the draft, draft him in the second round along with Hurts. Or wait until 2021 and draft either Lawrence or Fields in 2021.
 
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