Drew Bledsoe discussion split from a Wade Smith thread.

[Fatherof25]

I dont know what u all are talkin about on this thread but that title was very harsh!!! LOL

 

[3P]

I cleaned this out of the Wade Smith thread. We have forum for this sort of stuff, and I won't stand for fans of other teams overtaking legit threads. :shakeno:

 

[Justasportsfan]

I cleaned this out of the Wade Smith thread. We have forum for this sort of stuff, and I won't stand for fans of other teams overtaking legit threads. :shakeno:

I hope you weren't implyin it was me :D

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Do you remember a guy named Ricky Williams? It was a great trade at that time wasn't it?

Why did Spielman trade a 2nd for a 3rd string qb? That's because he thought it was a great move at that time. Unlike Drew who made probowl in his 1st year , do you see Feely making probowl this year?

Drew may have declined but compared to what we had then ,he was definitely better than Van Pelt.

Those were the numbers put up by Bledose BEFORE the Bills traded for him. The point was that his decline was documented already. He was already past his prime. Donahoe made the trade hoping he would return to a form that he hadn't played at for over two years.

That is the difference with the RW trade. Ricky's numbers had been going up. Yards rushing, catches, yards receiving, yards per carry, and games played all increased in each of his first three years in the league. He was a player just hitting his prime. The Dolphins would have been happy with just an equal performance to his 2001 season. Instead, they got much more.

 

[Justasportsfan]

Those were the numbers put up by Bledose BEFORE the Bills traded for him. The point was that his decline was documented already. He was already past his prime. Donahoe made the trade hoping he would return to a form that he hadn't played at for over two years.

That is the difference with the RW trade. Ricky's numbers had been going up. Yards rushing, catches, yards receiving, yards per carry, and games played all increased in each of his first three years in the league. He was a player just hitting his prime. The Dolphins would have been happy with just an equal performance to his 2001 season. Instead, they got much more.

even w/ declining numbers he was way better than Van Pelt and even went on to make probowl just like RW went on to lead the league. OUr situation coming from salaray cap hell and needing immediate help at qb promted TD to make the deal.

Did you see the nos. he put up when he first joined the bills? No one said he was declining when he broke Jim Kelly's record.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

even w/ declining numbers he was way better than Van Pelt and even went on to make probowl just like RW went on to lead the league. OUr situation coming from salaray cap hell and needing immediate help at qb promted TD to make the deal.

Did you see the nos. he put up when he first joined the bills? No one said he was declining when he broke Jim Kelly's record.

Nothing changes the fact that at this point it looks like a bad trade.

Just because he was better than Van Pelt doesn't make him worth a first round pick and all the money he is making. The salary cap argument makes no sense. If you are up against the cap, why overpay for an aging QB?

Donahoe thought he would get more production from Bledsoe and he was wrong. He should have been able to see it coming.

I saw how well he played at first, but once the defenses adjusted and took away the long pass, he was unable to get anything done. Teams will continue to take away the long ball (we've already heard it from this coaching staff) and put pressure on Bledsoe. He has not shown the ability to make quick decisions under pressure. Until he does, he will be in trouble.

 

[FlyingElvis]

I saw how well he played at first, but once the defenses adjusted and took away the long pass, he was unable to get anything done. Teams will continue to take away the long ball (we've already heard it from this coaching staff) and put pressure on Bledsoe. He has not shown the ability to make quick decisions under pressure. Until he does, he will be in trouble.

Good analysis.

Bledsoe's game is taking a 7-step drop, and throwing the ball down the field 25 yards on a rope. He does this well. Except NFL defenses don't allow this anymore because Belichick showed the NFL how to beat it. Same goes for Warner who hasn't been the same QB since Super Bowl 36. The same would go for Manning as well, except Peyton has the cerebral aspect of playing the position that allows him to read a defense prior to the snap, counter Belichicks schemes with his own, and read his progressions after the snap. Bledsoe does not have this ability. The game has passed him by. He'll still win some games with his arm alone, even against a Belichick defense like he did last September. But thats a far cry from taking a team deep into the playoffs against one quality opponent after another, where turnovers are deadly.

With that said. The guy can still be an effective backup somewhere. But not before the Bills eat dead cap money and release him to a team willing to sign him to a backup salary. Not in NE though, we've had enough.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Good analysis.

Bledsoe's game is taking a 7-step drop, and throwing the ball down the field 25 yards on a rope. He does this well. Except NFL defenses don't allow this anymore because Belichick showed the NFL how to beat it. Same goes for Warner who hasn't been the same QB since Super Bowl 36. The same would go for Manning as well, except Peyton has the cerebral aspect of playing the position that allows him to read a defense prior to the snap, counter Belichicks schemes with his own, and read his progressions after the snap. Bledsoe does not have this ability. The game has passed him by. He'll still win some games with his arm alone, even against a Belichick defense like he did last September. But thats a far cry from taking a team deep into the playoffs against one quality opponent after another, where turnovers are deadly.

With that said. The guy can still be an effective backup somewhere. But not before the Bills eat dead cap money and release him to a team willing to sign him to a backup salary. Not in NE though, we've had enough.

Several QBs can still get the ball deep on defenses. Manning, Culpepper, Favre, etc. The difference is that those QBs force you to play them honest. If you always drop back into a two deep zone, they will pick you apart with the short stuff. Ultimately it becomes a guessing game that the offense wins sometimes and the defense wins sometimes. Bledsoe (or more accurately, the Bills offense) has not shown the ability to make the defense pay for the style that they are playing.

Buffalo fans were frustrated by Gilbrides seemingly mindless stubbornness to throw deep. Ultimately he may be proven correct, because it may be the only style offense that Drew has a chance in. The throws in short yardage situations may have been an attempt to give Drew a shot when the defense needs to play honest because of the down and distance.

The new coaching staff is foregoing those opportunities and they aren't any more effective because Drew must string together long drives to score and he hasn't been able to do that consistently.

Couple Drew's ineffectiveness in the short passing game and the offensive line's inability to give enough time to throw deep and you have problems.

Another observation I have about Bledsoe is that he doesn't seem to audible at the line very often. I've heard him say many, many times that the defense was in a cover two and they were taking away the long pass that was called. Can't he read that before the snap? Why not audible into another play that is more effective against the two deep zone? Why run that pattern at all? He also seems to look to that initial receiver anyway and that takes time that he cannot afford to take.

 

[FlyingElvis]

Several QBs can still get the ball deep on defenses. Manning, Culpepper, Favre, etc. The difference is that those QBs force you to play them honest.

Well, thats why I included Manning in my post. Mostly because I've seen him play more recently against good defenses (Pats, Titans). He can and will make you pay because he can improvise and adapt to what the defense is giving him. He killed the Pats in week 1 running James up the middle, when he correctly observed that the Pats were going to play a lot of nickel (in fairness, this was likely the gameplan, but he also audibled in some runs). I also included Manning because I wanted to avoid the topic of mobility, because thats not necessarily whats at issue here.

Couple Drew's ineffectiveness in the short passing game and the offensive line's inability to give enough time to throw deep and you have problems.

Drew's short passing game has always been questionable. While in NE, he was very effective throwing to the TE (Coates) as a dump off pass if he got in trouble. Coates caught everything, even with 2 defenders drapped all over him. Or the occasional dump off to an uncovered FB (say Sam Gash). So, he could drop back, hone in on his primary receiver, and if covered, he'd dump it off to a single alternate receiver (again usually Coates). But they couldn't put RB or WR screens in or some of the other elaborate stuff that Weis runs, because he couldn't execute them.

 

[Justasportsfan]

Nothing changes the fact that at this point it looks like a bad trade.

.

Just like the Ricky Williams trade? Now that he's left and his mental issues that was foreseen back then has caught up with the fins, was it worth 2 1st rds. and a 4th? If you knew that Rw was gonna quit would you have traded for him for 2 seasons? That's what I meant by hindsight is 20/20. No one said it was a big mistake at that time. It was the biggest FA news that overshadowed the draft nd that the Pats could've gotten more for him but only the bills were in dire need of a solid qb. He was solid for half a season and 2 games last year ,just like RW was solid for 2 but at the price of 2 1st's and a 4th.

 

[Justasportsfan]

Well, thats why I included Manning in my post. Mostly because I've seen him play more recently against good defenses (Pats, Titans). He can and will make you pay because he can improvise and adapt to what the defense is giving him. He killed the Pats in week 1 running James up the middle, when he correctly observed that the Pats were going to play a lot of nickel (in fairness, this was likely the gameplan, but he also audibled in some runs). I also included Manning because I wanted to avoid the topic of mobility, because thats not necessarily whats at issue here.

Drew's short passing game has always been questionable. While in NE, he was very effective throwing to the TE (Coates) as a dump off pass if he got in trouble. Coates caught everything, even with 2 defenders drapped all over him. Or the occasional dump off to an uncovered FB (say Sam Gash). So, he could drop back, hone in on his primary receiver, and if covered, he'd dump it off to a single alternate receiver (again usually Coates). But they couldn't put RB or WR screens in or some of the other elaborate stuff that Weis runs, because he couldn't execute them.

we all know now that pressuring Drew is the way to stop him that's besides the point . It still doesn't account for your implication that the bills give away our draft picks which is what I reponded to in the 1st place. The only draft pick we gave away and got nothing in return is the Losman trade. That's it.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Just like the Ricky Williams trade? Now that he's left and his mental issues that was foreseen back then has caught up with the fins, was it worth 2 1st rds. and a 4th? If you knew that Rw was gonna quit would you have traded for him for 2 seasons? That's what I meant by hindsight is 20/20. No one said it was a big mistake at that time. It was the biggest FA news that overshadowed the draft nd that the Pats could've gotten more for him but only the bills were in dire need of a solid qb. He was solid for half a season and 2 games last year ,just like RW was solid for 2 but at the price of 2 1st's and a 4th.

Whatever....

If you want to ignore that at the time of the trades Ricky was producing and Drew was not, go ahead. I just believe that Drew's poor performance was more predictable than Ricky quiting.

 

[Justasportsfan]

Whatever....

If you want to ignore that at the time of the trades Ricky was producing and Drew was not, go ahead. I just believe that Drew's poor performance was more predictable than Ricky quiting.

it ain't over is it. Drew could turn his game around but RW is gone. Kinda like your Wanny/Marv logic.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

it ain't over is it. Drew could turn his game around but RW is gone. Kinda like your Wanny/Marv logic.

Thats why I've been careful to not say that he won't be able to adapt. Stranger things have happened. Sadly, I like Bledsoe and think he showed a lot of class when he lost his job to Brady. If he played on another team, I could actually root for him.

Ricky could also return and have his rights traded. The RW saga isn't over yet, but I don't believe he'll be a Dolphin again.

 

[ltfinfan]

i was one of those ppl who thought the bills made a good trade. i was envious too. the only reason drew wasn't producing before he got traded was because he was hurt.
the one game they put him in after brady got hurt he looked really good in.