ESPN's McShay has us taking........Mark Ingram

[Pinkboy]

Robert Quinn is on my short list of Top 5 favorite prospects as I see it now, strictly in terms of for the Dolphins, and the fits they could make. In fact, I'd be hard pressed to pick anyone over Quinn. The reason is simple, he does flash DeMarcus Ware a lot on the tape he does have. We need pass rushers, first and foremost. Having Misi and Quinn lined up outside, with Wake roaming around all over the place, is the kind of thing that makes Mike Nolan's defense go from really good to potentially elite. This is the kind of move that could allow for a cut of Crowder in the offseason if we feel we can move on, and not require a major upgrade to be made at ILB. The intelligent draft posters on here almost unanimously agree pass rushers hold a premium value, and Quinn presents the most pro ready 3-4 OLB in the draft, IMO. If our first pick is on D, a year after we spent 7 of 8 on D, it BETTER be for an impact player. No picks with guys who are safe picks. I liked the "safe" Odrick pick this past year, but the same type move made for a D player this year and I may lose all faith in this regime.

excellent post. We need one more bonafide pass rusher to take this defense to another level...

and a ballhawk in the secondary.

We get those 2 main pieces, and the Dolphins are perennial playoff participants. it's almost impossible to not make the playoffs when your D is allowing less than 17 pts per game.

Continuing to build this defense into a championship caliber defense is the quickest way for Miami to become a super bowl contender imo... because we're not going to find an Andrew Luck in the draft anytime soon.

just a couple pieces away... a couple pieces.

 

[bootang25]

excellent post. We need one more bonafide pass rusher to take this defense to another level.

and a ballhawk in the secondary.

We get those 2 pieces, and the Dolphins are perennial playoff participants.

it's almost impossible to not make the playoffs when your D is allowing less than 17 pts per game. Building this defense into a championship caliber defense is the quickest way for Miami to become a super bowl contender imo... because we're not going to find an Andrew Luck in the draft anytime soon.

just a couple pieces away... a couple pieces.

I didn't post here with any frequency leading up to the draft, but everywhere I did post my number one prospect for our team was Earl Thomas. I wanted his coverage/ballhawk skills more than any other skillset in the draft, and he has proven it already in a major way for the Seahawks. I fear looking at the Safety class as it stands this year, that there is no Eric Berry or Earl Thomas in this draft. I have never said a bad word about the Odrick pick, I liked it. I would have LOVED Thomas.

I am 100% in agreement our defense is those 2 pieces away. Another pass rushing specialist, and a ballhawk Safety.

I am thinking the Safety position will again have to be looked at through free agency. IMO, Bell should be offered a paycut to stay as a backup, if he doesn't want that, we can release him. Clemons moving to SS would be my next move, and then look for the ballhawk Safety. I just don't see that kinda guy in this draft. Though my dad tells me that their is a guy for Temple who is supposed to be awesome. Haven't heard a lot about him though.

 

[hoops]

clemons at ss is no good...he's not nearly the physical sure tackler to man the position...chris clemons in the box is not a good thing vs a downhill runner...plus his change of direction in a coming up support role from a dead stop is not good...

and like i've tried to tell so many of these guys on this damn site all season he's late reacting to the ball and has zero ball instincts for the position...the only thing that keeps him from being a liability is those wheels of his...they help make up for a lot of his deficiencies...when the balls vertical over his head he has a hard time tracking it...

he's an average free safety...you can't teach a guy ball skills and instincts...he doesn't have them...but at ss imo he's a fail...reshad jones is much more physical and stout in run support...problem with him is he has stiff hips and doesn't transition out of his pedal all that well or have great speed...i'd plug him at strong before i ever put clemons there though...

 

[bootang25]

We get those 2 main pieces, and the Dolphins are perennial playoff participants. it's almost impossible to not make the playoffs when your D is allowing less than 17 pts per game.

Continuing to build this defense into a championship caliber defense is the quickest way for Miami to become a super bowl contender imo...

just a couple pieces away... a couple pieces.

I think people don't see the irony in that the common trait from all of four AFC teams that beat us so far this year is the way they stockpile defensive talent. Show me a top 5 pick at Wide Receiver on any of the really dominant teams. It rarely happens. However, stockpile elite defensive talent, and you can usually find the elite teams. Those top spots in the draft are often occupied by the fastest football players, and you find as you move to the next level the importance of speed is only a small variable in the equation. Teams fall in love with speed, and everytime you have a Chris Johnson, it sets the process back another 5 years it seems. People hate on the Odrick and Long picks, cornfed good ol boys, but these are the type of players you will find on EVERY Super Bowl champion sans a few.

 

[bootang25]

clemons at ss is no good...he's not nearly the physical sure tackler to man the position...chris clemons in the box is not a good thing vs a downhill runner...plus his change of direction in a coming up support role from a dead stop is not good...

and like i've tried to tell so many of these guys on this damn site all season he's late reacting to the ball and has zero ball instincts for the position...the only thing that keeps him from being a liability is those wheels of his...they help make up for a lot of his deficiencies...when the balls vertical over his head he has a hard time tracking it...

he's an average free safety...you can't teach a guy ball skills and instincts...he doesn't have them...but at ss imo he's a fail...reshad jones is much more physical and stout in run support...problem with him is he has stiff hips and doesn't transition out of his pedal all that well or have great speed...i'd plug him at strong before i ever put clemons there though...

Excellent points. I think my disdain for not having the ballhawk at his position drives me to wanting him elsewhere. I think a move that has to be made is Bell being released, or him taking a paycut. I think it would be hard to upgrade both spots, so if I had my choice I'd start at FS. Then I would probably have both Jones and Clemons battle it out for SS, maybe even bring in a vet (if Bell won't take the paycut) A guy that could cover a ton of room back there would go a long way in helping to hide some of the SS's deficiencies, no matter who it is back there.

 

[hoops]

Excellent points. I think my disdain for not having the ballhawk at his position drives me to wanting him elsewhere. I think a move that has to be made is Bell being released, or him taking a paycut. I think it would be hard to upgrade both spots, so if I had my choice I'd start at FS. Then I would probably have both Jones and Clemons battle it out for SS, maybe even bring in a vet (if Bell won't take the paycut) A guy that could cover a ton of room back there would go a long way in helping to hide some of the SS's deficiencies, no matter who it is back there.

within the next year or so i'd be looking to lose bell and vernon careys contracts...take pay cuts or release them...bell is definitely showing signs of a drop off and right tackle feet shouldn't be that hard to find...carey also looks to me like he gets a little larger weekly...lol

but right now at least for me we got other fish to fry...like getting younger at rb and bringing in a real threat mismatch te and upgrading brian hartline at the #2 wr and shoring up this interior oline etc and finding a real ilb opposite dansby

and hell maybe qb also...

 

[bootang25]

within the next year or so i'd be looking to lose bell and vernon careys contracts...take pay cuts or release them...bell is definitely showing signs of a drop off and right tackle feet shouldn't be that hard to find...carey also looks to me like he gets a little larger weekly...lol

but right now at least for me we got other fish to fry...like getting younger at rb and bringing in a real threat mismatch te and upgrading brian hartline at the #2 wr and shoring up this interior oline etc and finding a real ilb opposite dansby

and hell maybe qb also...

I would love if we could identify a hybrid guy, that Percy Harvin type, the X factor, we might be able to kill two birds with one stone. Aaron Hernandez. Someone like that. Finding that versatility helps move C up a round, or frees up a few extra million to overpay for a very good, not great C. Our regime at least talks the talk about versatility. I expect they look for this "matchup nightmare" on offense no matter what position they play. Ireland has never been shy, no matter what you believe of his decisions. You would have to think if he is as smart as he thinks he is, he has to add a playmaker first and foremost on the offensive side of the ball

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

I would love if we could identify a hybrid guy, that Percy Harvin type, the X factor, we might be able to kill two birds with one stone. Aaron Hernandez. Someone like that. Finding that versatility helps move C up a round, or frees up a few extra million to overpay for a very good, not great C. Our regime at least talks the talk about versatility. I expect they look for this "matchup nightmare" on offense no matter what position they play. Ireland has never been shy, no matter what you believe of his decisions. You would have to think if he is as smart as he thinks he is, he has to add a playmaker first and foremost on the offensive side of the ball

Jerrell Jernigan and Randall Cobb is who I always end up coming back to as my favorites in this particular draft class when I look for a Percy Harvin type "X-factor" guy...

..or James Rodgers and T.Y. Hilton as smaller versions...


There are numerous WR prospects in this draft that are exceptional deep threats that fit in a #2 or #3 WR role that have the speed to stretch the field and lift the coverage on the other side of a dominant, true #1 wide receiver... I think you can get one in the mid-late rounds... some that are also dangerous kick returners.


D.J. Williams is the guy I've always made the Aaron Hernandez comparison with... they're virtual clones of one another.... although Williams is probably a bit more versatile as far as playing H-back... while Hernandez is probably slightly more "wide receiver"ish in skillset...

Mike McNeill is a guy who I think you can get in the mid-late rounds that could end up a steal... he's more "wide receiver"ish in skillset, but not quite as dynamic as Hernandez or D.J. Williams.. but he's a guy who is in that WR/TE "hybrid" mold that Nebraska uses to split out wide and create mismatches in the passing game... I can find ways to use a player like this... and get more than what I bargained for by using a mid-late round pick on him.

 

[bootang25]

I can find ways to use a player like this... and get more than what I bargained for by using a mid-late round pick on him.

The problem is we have tried to use the same approach to finding these hybrid TE guys, the acorn approach. John Nalbone. Kory Sperry. Joey Haynos. Mickey Shuler. Jarod Mastrud (not even sure I spelled that right, lol) David Martin? And people were mad we got rid of Martin, like who cares. The problem is some acorns are bigger than others. I hope that whatever approach, whether RB/WR or TE/H-Back/WR that we invest heavily in this, whether free agent money or in terms of draft value.

 

[bootang25]

There are numerous WR prospects in this draft that are exceptional deep threats that fit in a #2 or #3 WR role that have the speed to stretch the field and lift the coverage on the other side of a dominant, true #1 wide receiver... I think you can get one in the mid-late rounds... some that are also dangerous kick returners.

Are there any Greg Jennings types that you see, guys in particular. Which ones are your favorites, and why? I think this is one of those roster moves that could be Home Runs, adding a guy with Jennings ability. Not quite #1, but does everything you ask for in a WR. People do not understand the small amount of major needs we have left, and if we can find some perfect fits for the last few pieces we have left to put in, we will continue to be well on our way. Minor tweaks are what the good teams have to do, we are almost there.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

The problem is we have tried to use the same approach to finding these hybrid TE guys, the acorn approach. John Nalbone. Kory Sperry. Joey Haynos. Mickey Shuler. Jarod Mastrud (not even sure I spelled that right, lol) David Martin? And people were mad we got rid of Martin, like who cares. The problem is some acorns are bigger than others. I hope that whatever approach, whether RB/WR or TE/H-Back/WR that we invest heavily in this, whether free agent money or in terms of draft value.

Joey Haynos looks like a school bus coming in and out of his breaks... John Nalbone can't catch... Mickey Shuler got an undraftable grade from me last year as a prospect, he was primarily a blocking TE, not even close to teammate Andrew Quarless as a receiving threat...

Mike McNeill is a WR in a TE's body... completely different scenario. He's the closest thing to David Martin of any of these guys mentioned.. David Martin was a WR at Tennessee who grew into a TE... which is basically what I'm looking for... a rocked up WR playing the TE position.

 

[bootang25]

Mike McNeill is a WR in a TE's body... completely different scenario. He's the closest thing to David Martin of any of these guys mentioned.. David Martin was a WR at Tennessee who grew into a TE... which is basically what I'm looking for... a rocked up WR playing the TE position.

Where is McNeill slated to come out around? Which Round?

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Where is McNeill slated to come out around? Which Round?

Couldn't tell you... but he doesn't have the production to go in the first few rounds. He's a guy that teams are going to have to study the tape on, and see how he fits in their offense. Like I said, I watch how Nebraska uses him, and I can find a roster spot for a player like him. I think a team could have a potential steal on their hands if they select him anywhere in the 5th-6th rounds...

If he tests well in post season evaluations, he could probably work his way even higher than that. He's a low risk/potential high reward type prospect... because he's going to slide under a lot team's radar and be overshadowed by "names"...

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Are there any Greg Jennings types that you see, guys in particular. Which ones are your favorites, and why? I think this is one of those roster moves that could be Home Runs, adding a guy with Jennings ability. Not quite #1, but does everything you ask for in a WR. People do not understand the small amount of major needs we have left, and if we can find some perfect fits for the last few pieces we have left to put in, we will continue to be well on our way. Minor tweaks are what the good teams have to do, we are almost there.

Justin Blackmon reminds me of Greg Jennings... Dwayne Harris... James Cleveland... Greg Salas... Frantrell Forrest... Aldrick Robinson... etc... all of these guys play in similar type offenses that Jennings played in at Western Michigan, and any one of these Seniors could end up being the next Greg Jennings..


Ryan Broyles, Jarrett Boykin, Torrey Smith, Jeff Fuller, B.J. Cunningham, Greg Childs, etc.. are all favorites of mine when it comes to draft eligible underclassmen...


When it comes to pure, underrated deep threats, I look at Denarius Moore, Markeith Summers, Kris Adams, Derrell Johnson-Koulianos, Armon Binns, Jonathan Baldwin, Titus Young, etc...


When it comes my favorite Senior WR's, it's guys like Ronald Johnson, Leonard Hankerson, Vincent Brown, Austin Pettis, etc...


When it comes to potential slot receivers/return specialists... I look at guys like Jeremy Kerley, David Gilreath, etc...

When it comes to big, tall, rangy, possession type receivers, my favorites are guys like Kris Durham, Chris Matthews, Derek Moye, Niles Paul, Terrance Tolliver, etc...


Basically, I like to categorize every position, and grade them accordingly compared with other prospects that bring the same qualities to the table as prospects... It doesn't make sense for me to compare Mark Ingram to LaMichael James for example, they're two completely different backs, that will be used completely different...

It doesn't make sense for me to compare Michael Floyd to Jerrell Jernigan... because they have completely different skillsets and will be used completely different...

I break positions down according to certain strengths, weaknesses, and skillsets... and group them accordingly. That way I can have a better understanding of exactly how a player fits my particular team and place a value on that.

It doesn't make sense for me to compare a ballhawking free safety who's strength is coverage and picking off passes, to an in-the-box strong safety who's used primarily as an 8th defender in the box and racking up 100+ tackles...

 

[bootang25]

This should be in essence the way a draft should be conducted. If you can stockpile the premium talent, you do. But if not, you should be able to identify what type of player could make this offense explosive. For us, sense would ask for speed from the running back or wide receiver positions. It makes no sense for us to draft another possession receiver, or big receiver. Ranking the players whose best role matches what we need narrows down that prospect list, and makes it easier. A great example of not drafting the right guy for a role was us taking Ted Ginn. Aside from that "fearless" attitude that DeSean Jackson has shown, they are similar type players. Philly simply asks Jackson to run, to use his speed. We drafted Ginn to be something he was incapable of being. The way you break down the draft is in reality how a good drafting team would do it. Awesome and insightful job