Hey Fiedler Huggers...a doable Qb Upgrade | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Hey Fiedler Huggers...a doable Qb Upgrade

Originally posted by fin-atic
Hey Great BMarion!!

I bet the other 23 plus players who played each game would love to know Jay won all those games!!

I bet our defense had nothing to do wiht it did it? Or Ricky?

We won inspite of Jay, not because of Jay. Show me one game he has thrown for over 400 yards in? How many over three hundred?

Please don't insult my intelligence with that win record crap. He is lucky to have been carried by our defense and running game for three years.

UMMM, excuse me Mr. Natic, but I belive once apon a time we had a QB that never put up great #'s , but seemed to just win, had a great RB, well make that 3. All in all I really don't see a whole lot of difference in the way Bob's team was made up and the way the team of 2002 was made up, other than the fact that Bob's team came to win and shove the ball up places you don't want a football shoved.
 
Originally posted by dolfan06
lets see, i'm member #3 and you're #714 and you're telling me to get out. lets not forget moderator and i can wipe the floor with your posts. you are pretty stupid huh?

LMAO. You tell him 06. I don't think he knew you were a mod though......
 
On a side note, I just noticed I have over 1,000 posts. Do I get a special award or something? Maybe a star next to my name? I guess now I'm just part of the elite 1,000 post club......
 
Re: Re: Re: Hey Fiedler Huggers...a doable Qb Upgrade

Originally posted by fin-atic
Okay "Mr QB" wiseguy:

What logic do you have against these two guys in the face of their glaring statisitcs? C'mon Mel Kiper jr. lets hear what you briong to the table that is supported by facts.

Worse case scenario is they don't pan out and you look at the draft next year. Hell I am looking at athletes I think will be available not who I want. Is Palmer, or Grossman going to be there at #50? I don't think so.

I would rather have one of them who MAY pan out then Rosenfels. Hell even keep Jay as #2 and place the rookie at #3.

So why don't you bring something to the table dealing with facts and theories rather than be a smart as-s.

Well for starters I have watched Kingsbury and Dorsey play. Kingsbury plays in a system where they throw short passes and the WR does the rest. Kingsbury has no arm strength, he is projected to be a third round pick. As for Dorsey, have you seen his throws? His passes are weak, he can't put a tight spirrel on a football, and has below average arm strength. All he has is the mindset. I can GUARANTEE that neither of them will be quality QBs in the NFL, and both will be BACKUPS, while Jay had an 84 QB rating this year, and went 7-3!!!!!! His career record is 29-13, and although you can't put every win (or every loss, but I am sure you would blame every loss on him because you just use him as the scapegoat) on him, he has done a solid job and his record is one of the best in NFL HISTORY for the first 30 games started or something like that. All you can say against him are things like "he makes bad decisions" or "his arm strength sucks" or "he is unaccurate" but the stats say different, the film says different, and the team STRUGGLES with out him. Remember that Ray Lucas went 2-4 this year. Jay must be doing something right. I watched every single game this year. In the games he lost, he didn't have great games but they weren't games that he completely blew. He did throw 4 interceptions against KC, but 3 of those were in the last 8 minutes playing catchup. Or you can say he only went 11-25 against NE, but did you watch that game? Did you see the playcalling? No way you can blame that on Jay. So you can start talking and making fun of Jay or whatever, but the truth is that he will be starting here next year, and that he is a QB who is above average, and better then any FA QB or guys who will be released.
 
Originally posted by dolfan06
lets see, i'm member #3 and you're #714 and you're telling me to get out. lets not forget moderator and i can wipe the floor with your posts. you are pretty stupid huh?

And moderators have "ban" power.
 
Originally posted by dolfan06
lets see, i'm member #3 and you're #714 and you're telling me to get out. lets not forget moderator and i can wipe the floor with your posts. you are pretty stupid huh?

I guess early doesn't mean bright. Your number six means nothing to me. Wipe the floor with me? In your dreams. You better ask the moderators for help. You certainly can't do it on your own.

My "get out" reference means brinsg some facts to the argument. You Fielder Huggers are all the same. Once you are required to bring some stats to the table you have nothing. That lame winning record. And then you are silly enough to say "not many field generals can boast 10 win seasons."

Hello? anyone home? For the same token none of them can boast our defense or our running game. Coincidence? I don't think so.

So accoring to you:

Jay is th reason we have won an average of ten games each of his three years.
The running game and defense are lucky to be along for the ride? Is that what you are saying?

If not then what rank do you put Jay at in the league? 1 or maybe 2?

Explain to me all of this and exactly how good Jay is. Show me why I should not feel we would be better off with a top 10 QB?

Bring something to this would you. You bore me with your threats of banishment and what number you are. You keep living in Disney World while we go home disappointed every year. I for one want change, I am sick of the losing crap, and I want a Super Bowl. You keep waving your banners and being King of the Homers. If the world goes the way you idiots want we will still be watching next year while other fans laugh at our "December collapse" and "Get blown out in the playoffs" habit.

Jesus people the Pats built a team and won it right on top of our fallen corspe. How embarrasing. And we haven't even come close.

Keep hugging.
 
Originally posted by fin-atic
I guess early doesn't mean bright. Your number six means nothing to me. Wipe the floor with me? In your dreams. You better ask the moderators for help. You certainly can't do it on your own.

who said anything about #6, and i didn't say anything about wiping the floor with you. your posts are a little suspect though!:rolleyes:
 
Tiresome

Originally posted by fin-atic
Gee Van. I will cry myself to sleep without your "respect".

So with your great cap brain tell me what will be our cap postion after we cut Rodgers and Ruddy? What will it be after we re-work Zach's contract Which has already been approached?
What about reworking Madison's?

You have no credibility when you don't realize that exisitng contracts can be re-worked, that the cap is going up. We are projected to be in good cap shape with the ability sign at least two free agents. that's straight from the Sun Sentinal not me.

You talk like what ever we have now is all we are going to have. You need to do your research before you attack someone elses credibility.

Take your "respect" and go jump in a lake. Give Fielder a hug before you leap.

Your almost as pompous as you are tiresome. Take a break and go kick your dog for awhile Fiedler bashing teenager.

Why don't you tell us how much money we'll save by cutting Rodgers and Ruddy.

Why don't you tell us how much we'll save by extending, not re-working Thomas' contract. Hint all published reports are wrong.

Explain to us why YOU have no credibility when you think it's possible to again restructure Sam Madison's contract. I'm 100% positive you can't answer this question? How smart is it to be outstanding almost $13M in bonuses on a overpaid underachieving CB? Remember you can pay now or you can pay later.

Finally straight from the Sun-Sentinel or Miami Herald doesn't ensure it's true. Published cap numbers from both papers are
usually wrong.

Take a deep breath and give it a rest Mr. Know-it-All.
 
Re: Tiresome

Originally posted by Aqua
Your almost as pompous as you are tiresome. Take a break and go kick your dog for awhile Fiedler bashing teenager.

Why don't you tell us how much money we'll save by cutting Rodgers and Ruddy.

Why don't you tell us how much we'll save by extending, not re-working Thomas' contract. Hint all published reports are wrong.

Explain to us why YOU have no credibility when you think it's possible to again restructure Sam Madison's contract. I'm 100% positive you can't answer this question? How smart is it to be outstanding almost $13M in bonuses on a overpaid underachieving CB? Remember you can pay now or you can pay later.

Finally straight from the Sun-Sentinel or Miami Herald doesn't ensure it's true. Published cap numbers from both papers are
usually wrong.

Take a deep breath and give it a rest Mr. Know-it-All.
OMG, guess when it comes to slapping the little kid around, i take a back seat!;) VERY GOOD!:D
 
So nice to know that a bunch of pot-bellied beer guzzling fans know so much more than the papers and writers who are on the team beat and cover them week to week and also know the principals. I love the part that says "all published reports are wrong" unless you are Wayne Huezinga or Rick Speilman than shut the hell up. You are the epitomy of arrogance to propose you know more than the team media. Thats a laugh!! " All published reports are wrong?" are you sure, I mean all of them?
*snicker* come on tell me some more how friggin smart you are. I am now finally getting some good laughs out of you amatuers.

You and Dolfan06 can go find Fiedler and have a nice big group hug.
 
Originally posted by dolfan06
who said anything about #6, and i didn't say anything about wiping the floor with you. your posts are a little suspect though!:rolleyes:

Typical, typical Fielder Hugger. I challenge you to make your arguments for Fiedler and this is how you respond?? Thats your big shot in the arm for his support?

My you are such a knowledgable fan! How do you do it?
*snicker*giggle*
Let me put it this way. If he was accused of murder and you were his attorney? He would fry!

Please give me more material. This is priceless. I showed your post to a couple people and they laughed almost as hard as I did.

Got anymore?

PS
Fiedler Hugging...is it like therapy?? If so its not working for you.
 
Originally posted by fin-atic
So nice to know that a bunch of pot-bellied beer guzzling fans know so much more than the papers and writers who are on the team beat and cover them week to week and also know the principals. I love the part that says "all published reports are wrong" unless you are Wayne Huezinga or Rick Speilman than shut the hell up. You are the epitomy of arrogance to propose you know more than the team media. Thats a laugh!! " All published reports are wrong?" are you sure, I mean all of them?
*snicker* come on tell me some more how friggin smart you are. I am now finally getting some good laughs out of you amatuers.

You and Dolfan06 can go find Fiedler and have a nice big group hug.

Honestly they are all wrong. Not saying that any fan knows more, but it has been said several times that all contract info is pure speculation, and there are only a hand full of people in the world that know the true details. Those would include the agent, client, Dave, Rick, a lawyer here and there, and about 5 guys at the league office. Next time you read an article about the new contract Joe Superstar just signed watch all the buzz worlds. You will see rumor, around, in the ball park, and many phrases just like it. They do have a much more educated opinion, but then again if they are wrong no one from the league would correct them.
 
We're fully capable of winning with Fiedler, and fully capable of winning without him. Ray Lucas was a special case, it took the team a while to switch gears and get use to him. Also, he was just plain terrible at times, no way around that at all.

Its time to stop worrying about the possibilities of what might happen with a different quarterback in the game, and time to start looking at the cold hard facts.

The first fact is, NO MATTER WHAT, Fiedler and his current contract are not here after the 2003 season. His base salary escalates to ridiculous levels and he's due a $2m roster bonus. He simply can't be here in 2004.

The other fact is, even without Fiedler at the helm all we need is competant QB play to win. Lucas despite his shortcomings, showed us that. The players aren't willing to buy the coaches' reasoning that we failed to make the playoffs because we went 2-4 under Lucas.

Nonetheless for me, I would use the unofficial feelers to determine the availability of Couch, Holcombe, and Bulger. I would not go for Warner, as I really think he's just finally lost it and his injury problems are going to stick.

I would not outright replace Fiedler with anyone short of Couch or Bulger, of the 4 QBs you mentioned. Holcombe would have to COMPETE for the job, because he could very well be a one-hit-wonder. And besides, if Couch isn't available on the block then I doubt Holcombe would be, since the Browns could easily just go another season with Holcombe behind Couch...pushing Couch to be better, and giving Holcombe more time to up his trade value.

It is also my firm belief that Bulger is staying a St Louis Ram. If the coaches don't put Warner up for trade, I doubt they'd put Bulger up either. Martz would just go with the hotter hand. But if they do anything, it would be getting rid of WARNER, not Bulger.

So that leaves kid Griese. He'll be available after June 1st, when the market and the money will be dried up. He'd have a tough time finding a starting gig after June 1st, but not an impossible task really. Not to mention he may want to sit the season out rather than play a season as a backup under a one year contract. Money is not a problem for him. Motivation is. He may also have issues coming to Miami and playing under the shadow of Bob Griese and Dan Marino.

I would not, absolutely would not, sign Jake Plummer because he's going to be offered a starter's market, and I'm not willing to pay him starters money and hand him a starters job.

So yes, our eyes should be peeled for QB upgrades, basically just like that have been peeled all along. The only QB move which we could have or should have done in retrospect might have been Brad Johnson, but who can say if BJ is really that good or if its Keyshawn and Keenan, along with Gruden thats turning him good. And besides, the chance to get BJ was I think BEFORE Norv arrived...back when we were running Gailey's system and BJ just wouldn't have fit. I mean sure we could have tried to get Bledsoe, but with what first round pick? Would you have given up on Ricky to get Bledsoe? Not me.

I don't care HOW much you hate Fiedler you have to be very smart when talking about replacing your starting QB who has won games for you. Its very political.

My answer is Mark Brunell. For some reason rumor has it that he's leaving Jacksonville, and I would most DEFINITELY like to have him in Miami and any person who says they wouldn't like him is just being insecure about having a QB that hasn't already played and won for us.
 
Originally posted by fin-atic
So with your great cap brain tell me what will be our cap postion after we cut Rodgers and Ruddy? What will it be after we re-work Zach's contract Which has already been approached?
What about reworking Madison's?

You have no credibility when you don't realize that exisitng contracts can be re-worked, that the cap is going up. We are projected to be in good cap shape with the ability sign at least two free agents. that's straight from the Sun Sentinal not me.

You talk like what ever we have now is all we are going to have. You need to do your research before you attack someone elses credibility.

Any clown who at least reads the Sun Sentinel or Miami Herald knows roughly how much room we have. Or how about you read my posts from like say ohhhhhhh say YESTERDAY in clumpeds salary cap thread where I stated we save $2.85 million cutting Ruddy and Rodgers.

There is little room to manipulate contracts this time around as we've done a lot of that the past couple of years and there is little to save with Surtain, Madison, Taylor's contracts without seriously screwing over next year. If were lucky the new NFL Sunday ticket deal will increase the cap to roughly $76 million which would have us break even. The best cuts we can make is Ruddy/Rodgers $2.85 million savings and if we extend Zach we 'could' save up to $3 million this year. We could get some savings by tweaking Bowens/Marions deals but that would just make their hits bigger when they are cut at their march 1st bonus dates again for minimal ($500k) gain now. Even McKnight at best will save us $800k.

Our salary cap situation is not good at all. We could afford probably one contract close to what we offered Olin last year but after that it's incredibly slim pickings as we cut most of the fat last year. Last year it was easier because it was like picking off meat from Rosanne......however this year it's like picking meat off of Leann Rimes.

So before you talk about credibility you better check out peoples prior posts and your own since your talking about cutting Jay when that would actually ADD to our cap.
 
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Fin-atic I am not trying to pile on, but you have to realize a few things. You mentioned cutting this guy, and that guy to free up millions of dollars, but in realality those dollars don't exsist. I am sure you are familliar with the phrase "signing bonus." Excuse me if I sound insulting, but it doesn't sound like you know what this means. What it means is that we are going to give you X amount of money for signing your contract. It is given in a lump sum when the contract is signed, but what the players association faught hard for when they realized a salary cap was nessacary, the NFL let the teams spread said signing bonus out over the term of the contract. It basicly lets teams give the athlete huge money with out getting thrusted in to cap hell. Every player includeing undrafted rookie free agents get a signing bonus. the better the player the better the bonus. Here is the hook though. If you cut a player that is the term of the contract; thus, the rest of the signing bonus counts against the cap that year. The bonuses are also set up so they are easy to manage at the beginning of the contract, but inflate every year to give the player protection from being cut.

You said we should cut Jay, ok fine you don't like him, but it seriously wouldn't be wise from an economical standpoint. Jay has a very low base salary this year, and 1 mill roster bonus as of march 1st, so we would save say 1.75 mill if we cut him against the cap, right? No very wrong. He has a singing bonus in the range of 5 mill to 6.5 mill. Last year we payed about 500,000 of that, so that would leave Miami with at best 4.5 mill that would count against the cap this season. After you take away the 1.75 mill we would save we would be paying 2.75 mill against the cap this year for a guy that isn't on our roster.(note I know these numbers aren't perfect as i said in my last post, but for this lesson they work.) The same would be true for Rodgers who just singed his deal 2 years ago, and it would even be true to some degre for Ruddy.

You also said we should restructure all these contracts. Do you know what that means? Basicly you would be postponing paying this years cap "bonus" money by adding more money to future years. So yes we may get some cap releaf this year, but that money will count against the cap later on. Please see the Cowboys and 49ers a couple years ago who had over 20 mill against the cap for players that no longer played for them on Sunday. I know everyone would trade a SB win for a 3-13 season 3 years from now, but what if you end up like the Redskins who gambled and lost with that same princable and had to deal with the losing seasons, but never go the super bowl ring.
 
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