hoops scoops...potential #19 pick lb ryan shazier tale of the tape... | Page 13 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

hoops scoops...potential #19 pick lb ryan shazier tale of the tape...

xXwarXx said:
I don't even consider this kid a 1st rnd player.

How many undersized linebackers make it in the NFL at a very productive level? Almost none...

I still don't even see what he does so well to warrant him being a 1st rnd pick. All I hear is about his athletism, Nothing about his linebacker skills. And his athletism when you consider he's undersized is a lot less impressive.
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You do realize he is almost exactly the same ht and wt as Patrick Willis, with more production at the college level, right?
 
xXwarXx said:
Its pretty common for combine weight and actual game weight to differ, you have to remember these players agents spend bug $ to prepare them for the combine, and that's all they focus on for a good amount of time before the draft.

That weight disappears once training camp and the season really gets going. We've seen this story with so many pass rushing busts over the years. Look small in college, bulk up, shoot up draft boards, never hear about them ever again.

I think shazier is right up that ally. I'd put him in the low 220s on game day.

Drafting a 220s, 2 down linebacker with low level football instincts, and doesn't offer much in coverage? I mean, I'm trying to like the guy. But every time I watch tape all I see is his skinny legs. And quite frankly, he's takes bad angles and gets pushed back quite often.

I see the upside though, I just don't pay much attention to upside when it comes in a small package. If you want upside draft Hageman.
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That's pretty much what I saw too. I think he's worthy of late 1st round grade because he is a good pass rusher, but its not a position Miami needs. We don't need to add another 3rd down pass rush specialist right now.
 
j-off-her-doll said:
Leave Ellerbe at MIKE. I'd rather have the better player at WLB in this D. Either way, I don't see Mosley as within 20 slots of Shazier. Shazier dealt with more O-linemen than Mosley, and Shazier outproduced Mosley BY A ****ING TON. We're not even discussing comparable prospects - player or athlete.

Shazier = top 10, all day, every day.

Mosley = top 40

I'll take Shazier to play any position on the field over Mosley.
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THIS !!!!

For someone to say Shazier has no instincts is just silly. Where a lot of people this mistake is by watching them presnap. Mosley has to give away his hand more because he is so much smaller and so slow to the ball. He knows he doesn't have the athletic ability or speed to make the kind of plays someone like Shazier can, so he tries to get more of a head start. Shazier baits players. He knows he won't have nearly the clean path to the ball that others have but he knows he can still out run their angles.

I will admit Mosley has exceptional skills in zone but he is average at best in man to man, and will be a serious liability in the NFL. Shazier in zone again baits the QB a lot. QBs in the NFL will kill him if he tries to do that in the NFL, but that is easily fixed. His awareness for feeling routes develope is very good. He anticipates where the ball will be and covers the ground to the spot amazingly quick.

The biggest difference between the two is Mosley tries to play safe, and Shazier is about making plays. Mosley will make the play that is right in front of him, but Shazier is about changing the game.

For someone to question the play recognition of a player with 23 tackles behind the LOS loses all credibility. If you want to try saying Mosley has a slight advantage in that area you might get some people to buy it, I'm not one of them, but to say he has BAD recognition just makes you look silly.
 
Never been a fan of LBs coming from OSU. And nothing has changed.
 
Zounds said:
That's pretty much what I saw too. I think he's worthy of late 1st round grade because he is a good pass rusher, but its not a position Miami needs. We don't need to add another 3rd down pass rush specialist right now.
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a situational pass rusher??? he'd be a 3 down lb...a late one against misdirection and off tackle etc at that
 
hooshoops said:
a situational pass rusher??? he'd be a 3 down lb...a late one against misdirection and off tackle etc at that
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I'd have him in there on passing downs as a rookie. Him and Phillip Wheeler could play nickle LBs. Thats it. Coyle can let him have the A gap all day, but I dont want him defending the POA on running downs.
 
Zounds said:
I'd have him in there on passing downs as a rookie. Him and Phillip Wheeler could play nickle LBs. Thats it. Coyle can let him have the A gap all day, but I dont want him defending the POA on running downs.
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so you'd make him a nickle package defender...problem with that is one that's not enough bang for your 1st round pick buck for starters but more than that he'd have a lot of coverage responsibilities and so you wouldn't be able to use that blitz pass rush as much...and that's the best thing he does is accelerate and close to the qb and the ball...

that 4 point stance stuff on the edge where he runs around tackles on the edge in college that's pretty much useless in the pros unless he learns some rush moves...not to mention the 6 ft 1 and 237 means he doesnt have the length and will get washed out by solid foot athlete tackles when they get those long arms on him and engulf him...doesnt have the power either to win against tackles...pretty much a useless trait for the nfl that one is
 
I could see Coyle using him in his A Gap pressures along with being an asset in coverage.
 
hooshoops said:
so you'd make him a nickle package defender...problem with that is one that's not enough bang for your 1st round pick buck for starters but more than that he'd have a lot of coverage responsibilities and so you wouldn't be able to use that blitz pass rush as much...and that's the best thing he does is accelerate and close to the qb and the ball...
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Which is exactly why I don't think we (or anyone) should draft him at #19 overall. I dont think we should spend another 1st round pick on another part time player. I think Mosley is a true every down LB, which merits a #19 overall pick.
 
Zounds said:
Which is exactly why I don't think we (or anyone) should draft him at #19 overall. I think Mosley is a true every down LB, which merits a #19 overall pick.
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just making sure...there's not top 20 value there for miami...
 
hooshoops said:
.not to mention the 6 ft 1 and 237 means he doesnt have the length and will get washed out by solid foot athlete tackles when they get those long arms on him and engulf him...doesnt have the power either to win against tackles...pretty much a useless trait for the nfl that one is
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Oh and that too

---------- Post added at 05:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:54 PM ----------
hooshoops said:
just making sure...there's not top 20 value there for miami...
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I think Shazier can be a good player if a team has a plan for him, but its just not worth a #19 pick to Miami for a part time player imo.
 
The funniest part about the love for shazier is People here want him as a replacement to Wheeler.







Same exact weaknesses.
 
when the opposition doubles those undersized dts this year in the nickle on early downs you're all gonna wish you had a lb with some instincts in the unit...cause that's coming...double a dt and make massive hay in the run game against our front and lb core...if you dont offset it with some instinctual lb play its curtains in the run d...mitchell all of 300 lbs and a penetrator starks another gap shooter and odrick are gonna be easy double team pray and into the 2nd level with this lb core
 
IF he cant play MLB then we still have a gaping hole. I dont believe he played inside at any time during college.
 
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