hoops scoops...potential #19 pick lb ryan shazier tale of the tape... | Page 11 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

hoops scoops...potential #19 pick lb ryan shazier tale of the tape...

I find the various opinions on Shazier interesting. I don't agree with j-off-her-doll that he's a top 10 player in the draft, but I like him more than hoops does. Shazier was very productive, but he's got to be a bit more consistent. I do think he'd be much better playing in Wheeler's role than he'd be trying to make him into a MIKE.
 
Shazier's more of a run and chase LB and not the read and react type or instinctual type this defense needs. Shazier will need to be covered up by a big strong D-line unit that will enable him to roam free all over the defense making plays. Last time I checked Tim Bowens and Larry Webster were retired and Jared Odrick, Randy Starks and Earl Mitchell are not the types of D-Lineman that eat up blockers so Shazier could run free. Miami's D-Line is smallish and a unit geared more towards a scheme for stunting, slashing and misdirection. I will admit Shazier is supremely athletic and very fast but question whether or not he is a perfect fit for a defense like Miami's, which is smallish in size and lacking the power based lineman needed for Shazier to have true success in the NFL. I'm very nervous Shazier could be the selection come Draft Day, not because of his talent, but because he doesn't fit in this defense.
 
sounds like the same stuff I heard when we signed Wheeler......we need a playmaker, he's fast, immediate upgrade to our "consistent but never playmaking LB's" in burnnett and dansby.....and we thought Ellerbe would play the middle I guess?,,,,and now it looks like neither lived up to their contracts and we downgraded immensely....and now people are defending another 1st round pick on a "playmaking LB"....don't give me a playmaking LB, give me a bookend, wall of stone, tackling machine, who knows the game of football like Beethoven knew a piano. The only turnovers/plays made by my LB in the middle I want to come from instinctual prowess and advantageous positioning pre and post snap....not some athlete who's lucky to be in front of a play. Not trying to bash either candidate but Mosely is by far my choice of the 2.
 
You don't get that kind of production with bad instincts. He should be a top 10 pick.
You don't project a big-school linebacker with 4.4 speed, great production, and good instincts to get picked in the late first round. You don't project him to get picked after another mid-late 1st LB. And yet that's where the majority of people have Shazier. One of those three things is missing.

Plays like this touchdown are an issue. Rather than reading the play, filling that lane on the inside, or shooting the gap before the pulling guard gets to him...Shazier hesitates just a little, takes some short sliding steps to the outside, and gets wiped out of the play by that pulling guard who beat him to the inside spot and sealed him easily. The TD goes right down the lane where Shazier should have been. This shouldn't happen to a guy with his initial explosion. And this is a play that's unfolding directly in front of him.
[video=youtube;cDGszrpFiPg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDGszrpFiPg[/video]
 
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Leave Ellerbe at MIKE. I'd rather have the better player at WLB in this D. Either way, I don't see Mosley as within 20 slots of Shazier. Shazier dealt with more O-linemen than Mosley, and Shazier outproduced Mosley BY A ****ING TON. We're not even discussing comparable prospects - player or athlete.

Shazier = top 10, all day, every day.

Mosley = top 40

I'll take Shazier to play any position on the field over Mosley.

You've sold me and I won't be disappointed if Shazier is the pick now, or Mosley or pretty much anyone. The only guy nobody on this forum is beating the table for seems to be Cyrus Kouandjio, so watch that be the pick...
 
Ohio State defensive plays per game 76.8 vs Alabama defensive plays per game 61.8

Everyone wants to discuss Shazier's production, but the defense played 19.5% more player per game...over 150 more snaps on the season...

Just thought I would add a little context...
 
Ohio State defensive plays per game 76.8 vs Alabama defensive plays per game 61.8

Everyone wants to discuss Shazier's production, but the defense played 19.5% more player per game...over 150 more snaps on the season...

Just thought I would add a little context...

you got to take into account where on the field that production comes from and how much of it will translate at the nfl level...there's nothing great about the actual lb play itself...in fact leaves a lot to be desired it's just masked by the athlete in a lot of it...of course everyones a plus athlete in the pros so i doubt it will be masked as much there...

if you separate what matters from what doesnt as a 43 lb in our d you just can't validate a 1st round pick here...unless you think the guys just gonna go through people like a hot knife thru butter clean to the ball everytime in the backfield on blitz pressures...you better get that kind of return to try and offset all the deficiencies
 
I'll admit that I was wrong about the blockers, but I was speaking from a more theoretical viewpoint than one based in facts since I haven't had the time that I have in the past to watch CFB. I noticed the heavy use of nickel defense by OSU in the MSU game where MSU just ran the ball down their throats and often the runs were right at Shazier, and that really accounts for a lot of the discrepancy between the two.
 
you got to take into account where on the field that production comes from and how much of it will translate at the nfl level...there's nothing great about the actual lb play itself...in fact leaves a lot to be desired it's just masked by the athlete in a lot of it...of course everyones a plus athlete in the pros so i doubt it will be masked as much there...

if you separate what matters from what doesnt as a 43 lb in our d you just can't validate a 1st round pick here...unless you think the guys just gonna go through people like a hot knife thru butter clean to the ball everytime in the backfield on blitz pressures...

What is the saying....a lot of what he does can't be measured on a stat sheet...
 
I finally got around to watching a few games of this guy, and I'm on the fence. Awesome athlete, but he's going to get blocked by bigger guys in the NFL, especially when playing offenses with ZBS or lines with moving parts. I like him as a pass rusher, but I would honestly be worried if he had to cover, or if he had to press the POA for a tackle. Those lanes wont be open for him in the NFL. If I'm a running team in the NFL, I'd run right at him. His tackles are going to come 5 yards downfield from pursuit and running from the backside or running around blocks. He has a bit of Reshad Jones in him with taking some bad angles or misreading the play too. That being said, he is still a good pass rusher and good pass rushers are worth a first round grade, but its also something that Miami doesn't need imo.
 
I think Ryan Shazier's lack of "instincts" are being overstated here considerably. He made a lot of plays at Ohio State practically by himself because he read and diagnosed plays early and had the physical ability to get to the ball. You don't just stumble upon 10 tackles a game and 40.5 TFLs in 2 seasons of work. That's not how this works.

I remember a few years ago a lot of people making the same arguments about Luke Kuechly's inability to defend the run, accusing him of being a tackle stat accumulator that made most of his tackles down the field rather than making impact plays at or near the line of scrimmage. Everyone (smart) agreed that Kuechly had tremendous instincts in the passing game but his ability to defend the run was very much in question. Nobody's been questioning that ability in Carolina.

Awsi Dooger also brought up a great point about Shazier being 3 years out of high school. Hyperbole about his "no clue" instincts aside, any perceived deficiency in instincts should be kept within the context of a purely common sense based development curve. He's been a standout at Ohio State for all 3 years he's been there. He had the most tackles any true freshman had at Ohio State for 15 years, and in 2013 was a rare junior captain. There literally has not been a more productive linebacker in the entire country the last two years.

The final point to bring up is it's not a coincidence that scouts bring up the name Brian Urlacher when talking to Bob McGinn about Shazier. This is a name I've continually brought up for months. I would hate to see how much people would have killed Brian Urlacher coming out of New Mexico for his lack of polished "instincts" at linebacker, considering he didn't even play linebacker there. He was a rover, more defensive back than linebacker. He was an immediate impact player with the Bears but was notorious for taking false steps and bailing himself out with his incredible athleticism.

Long before the combine, Chicago knew plenty about Urlacher's ability. He was an All-America free safety at New Mexico who also played a little wide receiver and returned kicks and punts. His combination of size and athleticism made him an attractive prospect as an NFL linebacker, so much so that the Bears made him the ninth pick in the draft and immediately penciled him in as their starter on the strong side.

"I look for the kid to be a franchise-type player," says Kansas City Chiefs coach Gunther Cunningham, who coached Urlacher in the Senior Bowl. "He's going to carry a team on his back some day. Why do I say that? Because of his skills and the type of person he is."

As Chicago went through a minicamp last week in Lake Forest, Ill., Urlacher looked very much like a rookie trying to find his way. "He looked a little off at times," said Bears coach Dick Jauron. "But he's athletic, and that's what we drafted."

"For the most part, I'm lost," Urlacher admitted. "I'm still looking at one thing instead of the whole picture. I just roamed in college. Here everything is much faster, especially being closer to the line of scrimmage. You don't have as much time to react because the linemen are on you so quick."

"He has to learn how to play his position," says Mark Hatley, the Bears' vice president of player personnel.

A great character with incredible physical tangibles that made a ton of plays in college but doesn't have as polished positional instincts as older and more experienced players? Sound familiar?
 
:lol:

Omar Kelly ‏@OmarKelly 4h

"@RuckChang305: Shazier is like Vernon Gholston freakish athlete not the best football player» I completely agree. 133 tackles? Where?


Brian Hartline ‏@brianhartline 52s

@OmarKelly @RuckChang305 Absolutely not. COMPLETELY diff player. You should be ashamed with that analysis.
Brian Hartline ‏@brianhartline 1m

@OmarKelly @RuckChang305 go to the corner!
 
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