If stadium vote passes, Dolphins to stay in Miami through at least 2043

[jimmy42jack0]

So a city should pay almost nothing to keep a NFL franchise while taking the TAX money that a NFL franchise generates for the county and state? I won't even go into how many jobs the Miami Dolphins franchise provides for Dade county and the state of Florida. This concept that tax payers shouldn't pay to keep a sports franchise is naive IMO.

As far as the school stuff, give me a break. We have spent billions of dollars on our school system and all that has happened is it has gotten worse every year. You want to fix the school system, make teachers accountable. If your students get F's you should be high on the list to be let go. That's how you fix our school system.

I agree with you whole heartedy about giving breaks to major sports franchises to keep them in an area and keep that area's economy healthy

I disagree entirely about vilifying teachers though but I won't go into details of that on this thread.

I think Stephen Ross would do well to pay for his own renovations, get a future Super Bowl set for Miami and then renegotiate the team lease with the understanding of a continued fruitful relationship between the team, city and county

 

[dlockz]

So a city should pay almost nothing to keep a NFL franchise while taking the TAX money that a NFL franchise generates for the county and state? I won't even go into how many jobs the Miami Dolphins franchise provides for Dade county and the state of Florida. This concept that tax payers shouldn't pay to keep a sports franchise is naive IMO.

As far as the school stuff, give me a break. We have spent billions of dollars on our school system and all that has happened is it has gotten worse every year. You want to fix the school system, make teachers accountable. If your students get F's you should be high on the list to be let go. That's how you fix our school system.

The dolphins job impact for the state of florida and miami quite minimal. The promise of thousands of jobs by Mike Dee is an outright lie. Yes there will be temporary jobs in conbstruction but this is far from job creation because once the renovations are done those jobs are gone. The dolphins employ at most about 200 people.

 

[ohall]

I agree with you whole heartedy about giving breaks to major sports franchises to keep them in an area and keep that area's economy healthy

I disagree entirely about vilifying teachers though but I won't go into details of that on this thread.

I think Stephen Ross would do well to pay for his own renovations, get a future Super Bowl set for Miami and then renegotiate the team lease with the understanding of a continued fruitful relationship between the team, city and county

There are 3 teachers in my family, I'm not vilifying anyone. They share my opinion, and they go further, they blame most teachers unions. In every other profession, they keep the best, and they discard the bad. Why should they be immune to that? Yes I understand teachers are handcuffed in many ways, with all the LIB tendencies our school system has embraced. But we're talking about our children, our future here. We need to do what is best for them, not what makes a small minority of ppl feel better.

What annoys me about ppl whining about what Ross is asking for, he's not asking for a lot. The man could ask the city to pay for 100%, yet he's asking for only 43% and he's going to pay it ALL back. He's basically giving the whiners what they want, but there they are still whining. If the bill isn't passed, I hope Ross learns a very good lesson. Miami Dolphin fans that live in Miami are nothing more than front running fans, that don't know what they have. I'd make them learn a hard lesson. Make them miss what they once had.

 

[dlockz]

You call it welfare I call it good business. If Dade county won't take care of the Dolphins there are many many cities out there that will make them feel at home. If other cities take care of their sport franchises, why can't the Dolphins expect that from their city? If I was a sports franchise and I felt I was being ill treated, I may seriously think of saying bye bye because of that reality.



Because those tax payers get a return on their investment. If they don't understand that, then they deserve to lose that sports franchise.

And if you run a small business then you know you get certain tax breaks. If you don't, hire a better accountant.

Nobody has mistreated the dolphins. In fact the area where the stadium was built was donated to them. They have been given all kinds of subsidies and tyax breaks over the years.

Also its a myth that tons of cities that there are alot of cities that are vying to support an NFL team. There are actually very few that can actually support an NFL team as well as willing to pay for the initial costs of having one. Hell even LA has struggled to gain an NFL team. Owning an NFL team sounds nice and dandy but people know to lure a team there will cost the local taxpayers and its not all these cities are thriving right now

 

[Paper Tigers]

You call it welfare I call it good business.

A good business wouldn't need corporate welfare to stay afloat.

If Dade county won't take care of the Dolphins there are many many cities out there that will make them feel at home. If other cities take care of their sport franchises, why can't the Dolphins expect that from their city? If I was a sports franchise and I felt I was being ill treated, I may seriously think of saying bye bye because of that reality.

and my point was that if no county "made them feel at home" by bribing them corporate welfare we wouldn't have this problem to begin with. Football teams would stay in the areas that are the most profitable, still provide tax revenue and jobs and the taxpayers wouldn't have to be suckered into footing part of a companies bill.

Because those tax payers get a return on their investment. If they don't understand that, then they deserve to lose that sports franchise.

And if you run a small business then you know you get certain tax breaks. If you don't, hire a better accountant.

...and those tax breaks are provided to any similar business as mine, I am receiving no special treatment because of my lobbying power, and/or because i'm buddy buddy with a few politicians. The same cannot be said for the Dolphins who will be receiving tax payer FUNDS (on top of tax breaks).

If you can't see the difference between providing uniformly equal tax breaks across the board and paying a single large corporation with tax payer money than we might as well end this debate now.

 

[FinsNCanes]

They might be better off moving to be honest. The only people moving to Florida are retirees and people who just want a second home/condo. They all come from Minnesota, Michigan, Mass, NY. Not to mention they have done nothing regarding trying to make this team exciting and attract younger fans in the local markets for a long time.

They didn't help themselves with the new logo either. Remember that turn out we had against San Diego? Sure seemed like a lot of Dolphin fans. Not saying we should move to LA or anything.

 

[ohall]

The dolphins job impact for the state of florida and miami quite minimal. The promise of thousands of jobs by Mike Dee is an outright lie. Yes there will be temporary jobs in conbstruction but this is far from job creation because once the renovations are done those jobs are gone. The dolphins employ at most about 200 people.

The Miami Dolphins pay paid $4 million in property taxes just last year. If the Miami Dolphins didn't build a stadium there, it would still be a dust bowl. That's what most of that area was before the stadium was built. There was a dust field, and basically a ghetto a few miles away from it.

Save the nonsense about the Dolphins impact is minimal. If you make a living because of the Dolphins I think you understand just how important they are. I'd say the impact is easily thousands. It may not come directly from the Dolphins pay roll, but most ppl understand how much money sports brings to an area. There are sports stores that sell t-shirts and etc that make a mint off of the NFL. That doesn't even take into account the direct local effect. The ppl that man the stadium, the grounds keepers, the ppl who supply all the products that ppl consume and buy while at the stadium. The buses that ppl use to get to the game that day. The gas ppl buy to get to that stadium, the food they buy to consume before the game. The money the state generates because so many cars use the turnpike that day. It goes on and on.

 

[dlockz]

The Miami Dolphins pay paid $4 million in property taxes just last year. If the Miami Dolphins didn't build a stadium there, it would still be a dust bowl. That's what most of that area was before the stadium was built. There was a dust field, and basically a ghetto a few miles away from it.

Save the nonsense about the Dolphins impact is minimal. If you make a living because of the Dolphins I think you understand just how important they are. I'd say the impact is easily thousands. It may not come directly from the Dolphins pay roll, but most ppl understand how much money sports brings to an area. There are sports stores that sell t-shirts and etc that make a mint off of the NFL. That doesn't even take into account the direct local effect. The ppl that man the stadium, the grounds keepers, the ppl who supply all the products that ppl consume and buy while at the stadium. The buses that ppl use to get to the game that day. The gas ppl buy to get to that stadium, the food they buy to consume before the game. The money the state generates because so many cars use the turnpike that day. It goes on and on.

Still a fairly minimal impact and you are forgetiing the substitution rule where those dollars would be spent elsewhere if the dolphins were not there. Yes the dolphins have impact but the impact is always greatly overstated.

 

[ohall]

A good business wouldn't need corporate welfare to stay afloat.



and my point was that if no county "made them feel at home" by bribing them corporate welfare we wouldn't have this problem to begin with. Football teams would stay in the areas that are the most profitable, still provide tax revenue and jobs and the taxpayers wouldn't have to be suckered into footing part of a companies bill.






...and those tax breaks are provided to any similar business as mine, I am receiving no special treatment because of my lobbying power, and/or because i'm buddy buddy with a few politicians. The same cannot be said for the Dolphins who will be receiving tax payer FUNDS (on top of tax breaks).

If you can't see the difference between providing uniformly equal tax breaks across the board and paying a single large corporation with tax payer money than we might as well end this debate now.

Ross seems to be a lot like you. He could ask for a hell of a lot more without feeling guilty.

You have a certain POV and I have another. I believe in ppl paying their fair share, IMO you don't. The ppl of Miami should finally pay their fair share for all the benefits the Dolphins have brought to Miami. I hope they pass the bill, but some how I think there's a good chance they won't. And if that occurs IMO Ross would be well in his rights in time to leave Miami.

 

[ohall]

Still a fairly minimal impact and you are forgetiing the substitution rule where those dollars would be spent elsewhere if the dolphins were not there. Yes the dolphins have impact but the impact is always greatly overstated.

I don't believe Miami would be what Miami is currently without the Miami Dolphins franchise. There prob wouldn't be any Marlins, Heat or Panthers in Miami. So no, I don't think those dollars would have been spent other places. I don't think there would have been as many other places if they weren't there.

There is a reason why cities want sport franchises. It's not because those franchises don't generate jobs and tax money for those cities.

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

I didn't really want to bring this up, since it's going to cause some people to flip out, but here it is: Personal Seat Licenses.

If Ross has to finance this thing privately, my guess is that it will definitely involve PSLs. He already paid what, a billion dollars for the team? What's the net operating profit of an NFL team, year to year? They leaked the books of the Panthers, and you're looking at about 20 to 40 million dollars in operating profit yearly for a struggling NFL franchise. I don't know if Miami's situation is favorable or unfavorable -- I'd guess about the same factoring in everything from ticket buyouts to less public assistance -- but that's a pretty good starting point. I'd love to see the books. But so far this has not been a strong investment for Steve Ross. The Dolphins -- and the stadium -- are underperforming assets.

There's no way he's going to foot the bill for a brand new stadium or 389 million dollars worth of renovations without soaking someone. It's just not going to happen.

And yes, PSLs would be a disaster. An absolute disaster.

 

[z926538]

So a city should pay almost nothing to keep a NFL franchise while taking the TAX money that a NFL franchise generates for the county and state? I won't even go into how many jobs the Miami Dolphins franchise provides for Dade county and the state of Florida. This concept that tax payers shouldn't pay to keep a sports franchise is naive IMO.

Replaying what you just said:

So a city should pay almost nothing to keep a plumbing franchise while taking the TAX money that a plumbing franchise generates for the county and state? I won't even go into how many jobs the Joe's Plumbing franchise provides for Dade county and the state of Florida. This concept that tax payers shouldn't pay to keep a plumbing franchise is naive IMO.

Why is a sports franchise different from any other business franchise on this issue. Quick answer: it isn't.

 

[Paper Tigers]

Replaying what you just said:

So a city should pay almost nothing to keep a plumbing franchise while taking the TAX money that a plumbing franchise generates for the county and state? I won't even go into how many jobs the Joe's Plumbing franchise provides for Dade county and the state of Florida. This concept that tax payers shouldn't pay to keep a plumbing franchise is naive IMO.

Why is a sports franchise different from any other business franchise on this issue. Quick answer: it isn't.

Right on sir. A business is a business no matter what size or how high profile it might be...and one does not deserve tax payer money any more than another.

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

You can thumbs down the post about PSLs, but how do you think stadiums that took no public financing (MetLife being the only example in the last 15 years) got built? With the cash from Personal Seat Licenses.

At some point, Joe Robbie Stadium is going to need either a major renovation (what's being proposed) or a replacement. And trends in the NFL strongly, strongly indicate that there will be some public financing, personal seat licenses, or a combination of both. Assuming that this measure does not pass and Ross elects not to privately finance the renovations now, the issue will be front and center for the next owner of the Dolphins in eight to twelve years. And that's when the threat of moving the team will become reality. It's still not likely to happen, but the threat will be used as leverage to beat a better deal (for the team) out of the county.

 

[ohall]

Replaying what you just said:

So a city should pay almost nothing to keep a plumbing franchise while taking the TAX money that a plumbing franchise generates for the county and state? I won't even go into how many jobs the Joe's Plumbing franchise provides for Dade county and the state of Florida. This concept that tax payers shouldn't pay to keep a plumbing franchise is naive IMO.

Why is a sports franchise different from any other business franchise on this issue. Quick answer: it isn't.

Not as many ppl as the Dolphins. What you are asking the Dolphins to do is to take less than what their counter parts are getting in other cities. I like to compare apples to apples.

A sports franchise is totally different.

---------- Post added at 04:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:50 PM ----------

Right on sir. A business is a business no matter what size or how high profile it might be...and one does not deserve tax payer money any more than another.

No all businesses are not the same. I doubt you pay $4 million dollars in property taxes per year with your small business. If you do, you aren't a small business.