J. Martin Trade Idea

[phintim]

So tell me how that works.
You say Martin isn't black because his father is white. The same logic would imply that Martin isn't white because his mother is black (this position, btw, is the ignorant historical view that has existed in this country for a very long time and is still believed by far too many). So if he isn't white and he isn't black, what exactly are you saying he is?

Ignorant explain to me why? I would call Martin a mutt like I would call almost any American whose family has existed in this country more than fifty years we are a people of both different cultures and races. Unfortunately we have made an exception in this country for the African American community and provided it with an excuse for not fitting in. Sad.

 

[Daytona Fin]

This happened down the road from my house at a new golden corral.

[video=youtube;IKXrL5syc_s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKXrL5syc_s[/video]

 

[phintim]

Damn shame there isn't a Golden Corral in Miami proper. I make the drive to Homestead a few times per year. Lots of great stuff, including surprisingly good green beans. The pot roast is terrific.

I always get a kick out of message board posters who think they have to rip any of the buffet-type restaurants. A friend of mine used to test snobbishness like that all the time in Las Vegas. He got comps to any restaurant he wanted, at the major casinos. He'd call his wife and kids and tell them he was bringing them take home dishes from the fanciest joint in the hotel. They would rave about it at home. Only then would he laugh like hell and inform them that it came from the cheapest coffee shop at a dive casino.

Jonathan Martin will play in the NFL next season. Not exactly a tough call on that one. You're asking all 31 remaining teams to share the same biases and fear as posters here.

I hope your right about your last statement because if you really believe he wants to play in the NFL next year then this scenario will be over sooner than later. Which I hope. On the other hand my money is this is all about he money and fame and he will not. I will be happy if you can make me eat crow next year though.

 

[JTC111]

Ignorant explain to me why? I would call Martin a mutt like I would call almost any American whose family has existed in this country more than fifty years we are a people of both different cultures and races. Unfortunately we have made an exception in this country for the African American community and provided it with an excuse for not fitting in. Sad.

A mutt? As opposed to a purebred? I have ancestors that came from Italy, Ireland, England, and Scotland. The presence of Irish, English, and Scottish ancestry in my DNA doesn't make me not Italian. I'm all of those things. The exception you mention is not one born in the African-American community. It was a long held social and legal position in this country that a single drop of African blood made a person less than white and reduced them to second-class citizenry. Even a person with 7 white great-grandparents and 1 black great-grandparent was deemed "colored" and not entitled to all the rights enjoyed by whites. That's racism borne of ignorance. There's no good reason to perpetuate that kind of ugliness today. If JMartin self-identifies as black, he's not wrong; neither would he be wrong if he self-identifies as white or any nationalities of his father's ancestors.. This notion you have that calling him the n-word can't be racist because he's not a purebred African-American is the spawn of the same ignorance that stained this country with slavery, Jim Crow, segregation, etc.

 

[spiketex]

Your really purchasing the koolaide that the Martin camp is selling? Your thread points out that Martin probably has a medical condition that needs to be treated and that Martin also attended Stanford University considered by many the Harvard of the west. If you consider that Martin also studied pre-med as a undergraduate at Stanford and his parents are wealthy, Harvard graduates who practice law that points out 3 very important facts to consider in this scenario.
1. Martin is very intelligent
2. Martin undergraduate degree in medicine would put him in touch with his medical condition.
3. Martin comes from a family of resources. His family is both very rich and intelligent.

If Martin has a medical condition then one would be led to believe that between his medical degree or his parents resources they would have have figured it out much sooner than just now.

This whole issue about Martin being bullied and racism is ironic.

1. Incognito infers that he is going have intercourse with his sister and Martin infers he is going to kill Incognitos entire family.
2. Incognito texts Martin using the N word but in reality Martin is not black because Martins father is white so we are not talking about racism here we are speaking more about using language and a word that should not be used regardless of the situation.

IMO This is about fame and money my friend. Martins family is about to make a very big name for themselves over this issue and pocket lots of money in the process. Consider that they are already very rich and intelligent then follow the bread crumbs.

Yes, I've drunk the koolaid and really think that it's likely that there has been some harassment. I'm not fixated on the racial slurring, I think that it's likely that he learned to ignore it a long time ago - it is the tip of a sh*t iceberg. Richie has a background of being unable to control certain behavior especially when drunk (possible sociopath, but also clearly loved by many teammates). I also don't think that Martin is just driven by the motive of making money. Call me naive and feel free to chargrill me, but what I see is a smart young guy, who had always done well at everything until entering the NFL and was struggling to make it in his chosen vocation. He has been raised in a very affluent family, had the best education and it appears that he suffers from depression (and Incognito's father has alluded to suicidal tendencies on this website). He simply flipped out in an emotional display that probably disgusts him, but that doesn't make him crazy or simply a money digger. My read is that he is driven by personal achievement and the prospect of a big payout is just a backup scenario. I think that he probably enjoys playing the game and wants to do it well. Note, depression can be successfully treated with medication, but it can be tricky getting the right medication and dosage.
I thought that it was interesting to hear Incognito's former Nebraska kicker answer in a radio interview. As soon as he heard of Martin walking out re harassment, his immediate thought was Richie has finally gone too far.

 

[GoonBoss]

Your really purchasing the koolaide that the Martin camp is selling? Your thread points out that Martin probably has a medical condition that needs to be treated and that Martin also attended Stanford University considered by many the Harvard of the west. If you consider that Martin also studied pre-med as a undergraduate at Stanford and his parents are wealthy, Harvard graduates who practice law that points out 3 very important facts to consider in this scenario.
1. Martin is very intelligent
2. Martin undergraduate degree in medicine would put him in touch with his medical condition.
3. Martin comes from a family of resources. His family is both very rich and intelligent.

If Martin has a medical condition then one would be led to believe that between his medical degree or his parents resources they would have have figured it out much sooner than just now.

This whole issue about Martin being bullied and racism is ironic.

1. Incognito infers that he is going have intercourse with his sister and Martin infers he is going to kill Incognitos entire family.
2. Incognito texts Martin using the N word but in reality Martin is not black because Martins father is white so we are not talking about racism here we are speaking more about using language and a word that should not be used regardless of the situation.

IMO This is about fame and money my friend. Martins family is about to make a very big name for themselves over this issue and pocket lots of money in the process. Consider that they are already very rich and intelligent then follow the bread crumbs.

This is pretty much my argument. He is one of a life of that most of us have no idea. He has, at his disposal,
any ammount of wealth that would stagger most of us.

He's a *****. He deals with his issues by stamping on the ground like a child, and
leaving.

 

[phintim]

A mutt? As opposed to a purebred? I have ancestors that came from Italy, Ireland, England, and Scotland. The presence of Irish, English, and Scottish ancestry in my DNA doesn't make me not Italian. I'm all of those things. The exception you mention is not one born in the African-American community. It was a long held social and legal position in this country that a single drop of African blood made a person less than white and reduced them to second-class citizenry. Even a person with 7 white great-grandparents and 1 black great-grandparent was deemed "colored" and not entitled to all the rights enjoyed by whites. That's racism borne of ignorance. There's no good reason to perpetuate that kind of ugliness today. If JMartin self-identifies as black, he's not wrong; neither would he be wrong if he self-identifies as white or any nationalities of his father's ancestors.. This notion you have that calling him the n-word can't be racist because he's not a purebred African-American is the spawn of the same ignorance that stained this country with slavery, Jim Crow, segregation, etc.

I appreciate your explanation. While it might define a minority of our culture of our American past it is sad that you really consider that it defines who we are as Americans today. I am sure you will could find examples of your explanation in today's culture if you looked hard enough much like the Germans could for those whom believe in the superiority of the Arean race. The facts are if you really believe that is what the majority of Americans believe today you are incorrect and look no further than the White House for an example and also consider that the African American community represents around 13 percent of our country. Racism of the African American population certainly was a fact among the minority of our population in this countries past 50 to over 150 years ago. Hopefully the sins of our past have not become the excuses of our future!

 

[GoonBoss]

I appreciate your explanation. While it might define a minority of our culture of our American past it is sad that you really consider that it defines who we are as Americans today. I am sure you will could find examples of your explanation in today's culture if you looked hard enough much like the Germans could for those whom believe in the superiority of the Arean race. The facts are if you really believe that is what the majority of Americans believe today you are incorrect and look no further than the White House for an example and also consider that the African American community represents around 13 percent of our country. Racism of the African American population certainly was a fact among the minority of our population in this countries past 50 to over 150 years ago. Hopefully the sins of our past have not become the excuses of our future!

When we all become "American" we'll be equal.

But there's no money in victimization sales with that attitude.

 

[JTC111]

I appreciate your explanation. While it might define a minority of our culture of our American past it is sad that you really consider that it defines who we are as Americans today. I am sure you will could find examples of your explanation in today's culture if you looked hard enough much like the Germans could for those whom believe in the superiority of the Arean race. The facts are if you really believe that is what the majority of Americans believe today you are incorrect and look no further than the White House for an example and also consider that the African American community represents around 13 percent of our country. Racism of the African American population certainly was a fact among the minority of our population in this countries past 50 to over 150 years ago. Hopefully the sins of our past have not become the excuses of our future!

"...it is sad that you really consider that it defines who we are as Americans today." - I never said anything about that being the viewpoint of the majority today. I have no idea if it's a position held by the majority. I was disputing your statement and when asked, supplied the reason I felt it was offensive. That said, racism is certainly not just a thing of the past. It's alive and well today and more out in the open than it's been for quite a while.

 

[phintim]

"...it is sad that you really consider that it defines who we are as Americans today." - I never said anything about that being the viewpoint of the majority today. I have no idea if it's a position held by the majority. I was disputing your statement and when asked, supplied the reason I felt it was offensive. That said, racism is certainly not just a thing of the past. It's alive and well today and more out in the open than it's been for quite a while.

Open yes alive and well not close. It's serves an excuse to hold us back instead of moving forward.

---------- Post added at 12:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:18 AM ----------

When we all become "American" we'll be equal.

But there's no money in victimization sales with that attitude.

So your post implies that African Americans are not true Americans I disagree.

 

[GoonBoss]

Open yes alive and well not close. It's serves an excuse to hold us back instead of moving forward.

---------- Post added at 12:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:18 AM ----------



So your post implies that African Americans are not true Americans I disagree.

No, that's what you said. That's not what I said, nor did I imply it. I'd say anyone that
self identifies as a hyphenated American is not identifying as an "American". They are
identifying with "Self" first, and American second.

My people are from Germany and Russia. I don't identify with either of those places.
I'm an American, not a German or a Russian. I'm over it.

I'd suggest that other people should get over their hyphenations too. But that's just me,
and there's no reason to get over hyphenation, because there is no benefit to do so.

 

[phintim]

Yes, I've drunk the koolaid and really think that it's likely that there has been some harassment. I'm not fixated on the racial slurring, I think that it's likely that he learned to ignore it a long time ago - it is the tip of a sh*t iceberg. Richie has a background of being unable to control certain behavior especially when drunk (possible sociopath, but also clearly loved by many teammates). I also don't think that Martin is just driven by the motive of making money. Call me naive and feel free to chargrill me, but what I see is a smart young guy, who had always done well at everything until entering the NFL and was struggling to make it in his chosen vocation. He has been raised in a very affluent family, had the best education and it appears that he suffers from depression (and Incognito's father has alluded to suicidal tendencies on this website). He simply flipped out in an emotional display that probably disgusts him, but that doesn't make him crazy or simply a money digger. My read is that he is driven by personal achievement and the prospect of a big payout is just a backup scenario. I think that he probably enjoys playing the game and wants to do it well. Note, depression can be successfully treated with medication, but it can be tricky getting the right medication and dosage.
I thought that it was interesting to hear Incognito's former Nebraska kicker answer in a radio interview. As soon as he heard of Martin walking out re harassment, his immediate thought was Richie has finally gone too far.

Incog is like the kid whom called wolf once too often and eventually gets eaten. So it is easy to understand the Nebraska kickers statement along with many others in the NFL probably happy believing that Incog is finally getting his just reward. On the other side you have a very intelligent guy Martin who couldn't handle the rigors of an athletic career. At the NCAA level I witnessed this when highly successful high school athletes who were also very successful at the classroom level could not translate that same success at the college level. They truly believed their intelligence would pole vault over less intelligent athletes. While intelligence is certainly a important factor it is not the end all and because those intellectual athletes could not accept their own athletic inferiority they would mentally crumble in some cases. IMO Martin has a boatload of resources available to him for this to really happen unless he wanted it to happen.

 

[phintim]

No, that's what you said. That's not what I said, nor did I imply it. I'd say anyone that
self identifies as a hyphenated American is not identifying as an "American". They are
identifying with "Self" first, and American second.

My people are from Germany and Russia. I don't identify with either of those places.
I'm an American, not a German or a Russian. I'm over it.

I'd suggest that other people should get over their hyphenations too. But that's just me,
and there's no reason to get over hyphenation, because there is no benefit to do so.

Cool we agree then we are all Americans first and foremost and our heritage should not become an excuse ton hold us back from moving forward.

 

[GoonBoss]

Cool we agree then we are all Americans first and foremost and our heritage should not become an excuse ton hold us back from moving forward.

Absolutely.

In Martin's case, I think he had opportunities afforded to only the children of the elite of society, and
it made him softer, rather than harder.