Jake Long vs. Matt Ryan

[Vaark]

You call it idoltry because it suits your arguement. Does not make it so.

As I said 16 tds 11 int 6 fumbles 87 rating quarterback a

14 tds 12 int 11 fumbles 80.3 rating quarterback b


Please tell me that quarterback b did a better job.

Also yes the Ravens went further but Flacco was pretty bad in the playoffs. He completed 44 percent of his passes with 1 td and 3 int with a qb rating of 50. I think if you look at what the Raven did in the playoff it had much more to do with thier defense then his subpar play in the playoffs. Im sure he had his sealegs by then. The Ravens wins had much more to do with the other team turning the ball over. Titans fumbled 5 times and lost 2 along with an interception and Miami's 4 interceptions and 2 fumbles 1 lost. So unless you think that Flacco had a better season than Pennington since he did take his team further Im sure you cannot use this to help your Flacco arguement. Ryan was much better against superbowl runnerup Arizona in thier game then Flacco was against superbowl champ Pitt.

last 5 games:

Ryan: 84.4 rating, 5ints, 1022 yds
Flacco: 83.9 rating, 4 ints, 975 yds

To ignore the distance Flacco had to travel to get to game 13 vs Ryan is pure idolatry, yes. Sure on the basis of 17 games, Ryan was better and deserved the accolades.. but last year no one performed better than Manny Ramirez once he got traded to the Dodgers. However, while he was the de facto MVP, his body of work just was not big enough. Ditto Flacco. So yes, I will concede that over the course of the season, Ryan was better, but over the last 1/3rd of the season and beyond, they were at the least, comparable.

I know you suffer from "lastworditis" so I'm probably (lol) done with this topic. Either way, you'll spin this ad nauseum to support your intractable position. I'll just catch up with you on the next Fins player bash-fest.

 

[dlockz]

last 5 games:

Ryan: 84.4 rating, 5ints, 1022 yds
Flacco: 83.9 rating, 4 ints, 975 yds

To ignore the distance Flacco had to travel to get to game 13 vs Ryan is pure idolatry, yes. Sure on the basis of 17 games, Ryan was better and deserved the accolades.. but last year no one performed better than Manny Ramirez once he got traded to the Dodgers. However, while he was the de facto MVP, his body of work just was not big enough. Ditto Flacco. So yes, I will concede that over the course of the season, Ryan was better, but over the last 1/3rd of the season and beyond, they were at the least, comparable.

I know you suffer from "lastworditis" so I'm probably (lol) done with this topic. Either way, you'll spin this ad nauseum to support your intractable position. I'll just catch up with you on the next Fins player bash-fest.

Well not sure we were bashing any dolphin player. I never disagreed they were comparable over the last 5 regular season games. If they had a rookie of the last third of the year then maybe it would be the media drinking the kool aid. this award is given for the whole season and that is not comparable. also I noticed you did not have much to say on the playoffs for Flacco since u gave him so much credit for his team advancing.

 

[dolfan94]

I am in the belief that an o-line, a running game and some receivers make a QB. Matt Ryan with us last year is like Matt Stafford this year with the Lions. Stafford might be better than Ryan, but wont have anywhere as close to a succesfu season as Ryan because they're entire team sucks.

If we hadnt taken Jake Long, our o-line would've looked awful. Our receivers were very questionable and we got a coupe of diamonds in the rough, and our running game was pretty good, but Ronnie was coming off of an ACL injury and Ricky hadnt played for a long time. We didnt know about Cobbs either.

Our mindset last year wasnt contending for a playoff spot, let alone make it to the playoffs. Our mindset was building from the ground up. That's why we let JT go. That's why we let ZT go. We were rebuilding. It wouldn't matter what our record was at the end of the season. What would matter was how our guys were developing.

And they did develop tremendously. And we did find a few diamonds in the rough. And we did have some sinking veterans reemerge. And Chad P. fell into our hands and we found our way into the playoffs. Would that have happened with Matt Ryan and no Jake Long?

ABSOLUTELY NOT

 

[dlockz]

I am in the belief that an o-line, a running game and some receivers make a QB. Matt Ryan with us last year is like Matt Stafford this year with the Lions. Stafford might be better than Ryan, but wont have anywhere as close to a succesfu season as Ryan because they're entire team sucks.

If we hadnt taken Jake Long, our o-line would've looked awful. Our receivers were very questionable and we got a coupe of diamonds in the rough, and our running game was pretty good, but Ronnie was coming off of an ACL injury and Ricky hadnt played for a long time. We didnt know about Cobbs either.

Our mindset last year wasnt contending for a playoff spot, let alone make it to the playoffs. Our mindset was building from the ground up. That's why we let JT go. That's why we let ZT go. We were rebuilding. It wouldn't matter what our record was at the end of the season. What would matter was how our guys were developing.

And they did develop tremendously. And we did find a few diamonds in the rough. And we did have some sinking veterans reemerge. And Chad P. fell into our hands and we found our way into the playoffs. Would that have happened with Matt Ryan and no Jake Long?

ABSOLUTELY NOT

Many said the same thing about Atlanta when they passed on a tackle.
I do agree we probably dont make the playoffs with Ryan although I think he would have done a solid job. Long term though we cannot know for sure that is best because we dont know if Henne or White will be good NFL qb;s but we know Ryan is one and by many accounts is looking better this year. If we had drafted Ryan Im sure we would have looked at a tackle and they can be found after the first pick. Both Ryan and Long were superior rookies last year alhough its much more common for a tackle to be good as a rookie. Last year everyone though Atlanta would suck so its easy to say now he had a better team.

 

[dolfan94]

Many said the same thing about Atlanta when they passed on a tackle.
I do agree we probably dont make the playoffs with Ryan although I think he would have done a solid job. Long term though we cannot know for sure that is best because we dont know if Henne or White will be good NFL qb;s but we know Ryan is one and by many accounts is looking better this year. If we had drafted Ryan Im sure we would have looked at a tackle and they can be found after the first pick. Both Ryan and Long were superior rookies last year alhough its much more common for a tackle to be good as a rookie. Last year everyone though Atlanta would suck so its easy to say now he had a better team.

I never thought Atlanta would suck. They had a pretty good team last year. Not too different than from when Michael Vick was there. Only with a better QB right now.They were a QB away from being a playoff team and everyone knew it. They just didnt think Matt Ryan was THAT guy.

And this is how I sum it up: Matt Ryan was the better fit for the Falcons, and Jake Long was the better fit for the Dolphins

 

[dlockz]

I never thought Atlanta would suck. They had a pretty good team last year. Not too different than from when Michael Vick was there. Only with a better QB right now.They were a QB away from being a playoff team and everyone knew it. They just didnt think Matt Ryan was THAT guy.

And this is how I sum it up: Matt Ryan was the better fit for the Falcons, and Jake Long was the better fit for the Dolphins

I think both players fit the fins because we needed both.
Nobody predicted Atlanta to have a winning season last year.
They also needed Oline among other things.

 

[j-off-her-doll]

At the #1 position, taking a QB is usually too big a risk. Ryan was seen as much less of a 'sure thing' than people like Ryan Leaf. If you miss with the #1, you're bent over for years to come. Stud LT's rarely miss - at least when you compare their hit-or-miss rate with top-rated QB's.

Also, you're just as likely to find a great QB later in a draft.

 

[Dolphins3]

I like to analogize the 2008 NFL Draft to the 1984 NBA Draft.

In 1984, the NBA draft went like this:
1. Hakeem Olajuwan - Houston Rockets
2. Sam Bowie - Portland Trailblazers
3. Michael Jordan - Chicago Bulls

In 2008, the NFL draft went like this:
1. Jake Long - Miami Dolphins
2. Chris Long - St. Louis Rams
3. Matt Ryan - Atlanta Falcons

Do the Rockets regret not taking Michael Jordan? Of course! Do they lie awake at night, kicking themselves for passing on Jordan? Probably not. Hakeem got them 2 rings. The Rockets went with the "safe" pick and took a Center. Miami followed the same strategy.

Of course, this analogy is flawed, cause Jordan ended up being the greatest of all time. And cause the book on Jake Long and Matt Ryan is yet to be written.

But I think you get my point.

Yeah, the analogy isn't quite the same. Olajuwan ended up being the best center of his generation (and conventional wisdom at that time was that you go big). Portland already had Clyde Drexler and didn't need another player of that mold (though it would have been a great backcourt). Jordan ended up being one of the best players ever (not THE best, but top 4).

Long was the right pick. The only way you could really second guess us taking Long would be if there was another left tackle that we could have picked up via free agency, trade, or the draft (Ryan Clady, Jeff Otah, Chris Williams, and Sam Baker were all in that class and we never had a shot at any of them if we had taken Ryan). Without a quality line, Ryan would not be effective for us (you can't throw passes when you are on your back). The Rams already have a quality (though often injured) QB in Bulger. Chris Long will be a decent player. No matte rhow good Ryan ends up, I wam happy with the Jake pick.

 

[Dolphins3]

Many said the same thing about Atlanta when they passed on a tackle.
I do agree we probably dont make the playoffs with Ryan although I think he would have done a solid job. Long term though we cannot know for sure that is best because we dont know if Henne or White will be good NFL qb;s but we know Ryan is one and by many accounts is looking better this year. If we had drafted Ryan Im sure we would have looked at a tackle and they can be found after the first pick. Both Ryan and Long were superior rookies last year alhough its much more common for a tackle to be good as a rookie. Last year everyone though Atlanta would suck so its easy to say now he had a better team.

Pat White will not be an NFL QB. Think Kordell Stewart (who actually was far better than I ever believed he would be as a full-time QB). White will be aslash-type player. That's his niche in the NFL. I'd actually rather have Tebow (who will not be an NFL QB either and should be a mid-to-late round pick next year) than White for our offense.

 

[Dolphins3]

At the #1 position, taking a QB is usually too big a risk. Ryan was seen as much less of a 'sure thing' than people like Ryan Leaf. If you miss with the #1, you're bent over for years to come. Stud LT's rarely miss - at least when you compare their hit-or-miss rate with top-rated QB's.

Also, you're just as likely to find a great QB later in a draft.

Exactly.

 

[Dolphins3]

This again?

Wait, what happened to all the Brady Quinn threads?

I am still bothered more by the 2007 draft and the Ginn pick than I am over the whole Jake vs Matt debate. I hope Ginn works out. We'll see. Let me put it this way... if both Ginn and Quinn end up being busts, I would rather we had picked Quinn. At least then I would know we made the right choice (if we selected Quinn and he ended up being a bust, it wouldn't bother me near as much as if Ginn ends up being a bust. If Ginn ends up a bust, we not only got a bad player, we picked the wrong bad player to boot). Sorry if that doesn't make sense. It's awkward to word. Busts happen. It's just easier to dislike the bust that never should have been picked to begin with.

 

[dlockz]

At the #1 position, taking a QB is usually too big a risk. Ryan was seen as much less of a 'sure thing' than people like Ryan Leaf. If you miss with the #1, you're bent over for years to come. Stud LT's rarely miss - at least when you compare their hit-or-miss rate with top-rated QB's.

Also, you're just as likely to find a great QB later in a draft.[/quote

you are no more likely to find a great qb later in the draft than a great T.
In fact most drafts have less qb's that are legitimate NFL prospects than any other position. Although there is a high percentage of misses at qb there is no data that shows waiting to take a qb till later is a sound strategy.

look at the best qb's in football
Peyton Manning
Phillip Rivers
Eli Manning
Ben Roth
Jay Cutler
Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees
Chad Pennington


Getting a Tom Brady late in the draft is alot more luck than actual scoing.

 

[j-off-her-doll]

look at the best qb's in football
Peyton Manning
Phillip Rivers
Eli Manning
Ben Roth
Jay Cutler
Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees
Chad Pennington


Getting a Tom Brady late in the draft is alot more luck than actual scoing.

Of these QB's, only 3 were top 10 picks, and I'm still not sold on Eli. Unless you're absolutely sold on a QB with the top pick, it's best to pass. In most drafts, Ryan wouldn't have been a top QB prospect.

 

[DUB]

We made the "safe" pick. In retrospect it wasn't the "best" pick. The question wouldn't matter if Henne was looking like a real Pro QB. If Henne continues to sag it will be second guessed forever...

Exactly, if Jake didn't work out at LT he could move to several other positions, RT, LG( Robert Gallery). If Matt Ryan can't play QB you set your franchise back years. It was the safe pick for all the money involved.

 

[dlockz]

Of these QB's, only 3 were top 10 picks, and I'm still not sold on Eli. Unless you're absolutely sold on a QB with the top pick, it's best to pass. In most drafts, Ryan wouldn't have been a top QB prospect.

no way u can quantify that ryan would not be a top pick in most drafts.
Itsall about speculation.