Ja'wuan James vs Brandin Cooks

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by finomenal, May 21, 2014.

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Who would you have drafted?

  1. Ja'wuan James

    66.7%
  2. Brandin Cooks and a tackle later

    33.3%
  1. finomenal

    finomenal A True Fan

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    Although I understand why they took James where they took him, I generally don't like the idea of drafting a tackle in the first round when it's been proven you can get your tackle later. I'm a big believer of picking up skill players in the first round whenever possible. Elite talent at the skill positions are more of a rarity than linemen.

    I don't watch college football, so I'm only going off of the reports I've read on these two players. Based on that, Brandin Cooks sounded very intriguing to me. He doesn't seem to project to be a #1, but who cares? You pay a premium for speed (4.3). Having him on the field alone along with Wallace would have potentially made this offense very scary. His combine numbers suggest that he's your protypical "Percy Harvin" type WR who can line up all over the field.

    Who would you have taken between these two players?
     
  2. jim1

    jim1 Pro Bowler

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    He was the prize that teams wanted to trade up for, the targeted player when we passed up a 3rd to trade down from #19. Maybe Manziel was in play as well for the #19 pick, but from what I read Brooks was the main target. Part of me still thinks that we should have taken him, and I firmly believe that we should have taken the 3rd and slid down since James was the target.
     
  3. 123phins

    123phins Well-Known Member

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    I prefer James over Cook, and Landry over any tackle we could have gotten in the second
     
  4. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    neither player. James is nothing special just another guy and trading out of that pick was best option
     
  5. Bumpus

    Bumpus Are you gonna drink that? Administrator Finheaven VIP

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    After last year, I'd have been fine with drafting 327 O-linemen.

    I'm cool with how it worked out. :up:
     
  6. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    people act like we havent drafted linemen.
    1st overall
    15th overall
    77th overall
    42nd overall
    73rd overall
    110th overall

    all since 2008
     
  7. EJay

    EJay Scout Team

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    So the professionals that work for the Dolphins organization are flat out wrong regarding their opinion of James and you're right. Sell me on why.
     
  8. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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  9. FSU Truth

    FSU Truth inside my DNA Finheaven VIP

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    James....RT was the biggest hole, James was the best player at the position available and a 1st round talent.
     
  10. greasyObnoxious

    greasyObnoxious I love lamp Finheaven VIP Donator

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    that sure was gonna help us in 2014
     
  11. fininpsl

    fininpsl A True Fan

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    This is simply not true. If it was we wouldn't see tackles popping off the board in the top ten picks like we have the last few years while people generally have waited until later in the first round to start grabbing WR's and CB's. Out of the first 15 picks over the last 3 drafts (45 total picks) 44% (20 total) of those picks have been either offensive or defensive lineman. You can argue the merits of whether James as an individual player is worthy of being picked where he was, but the NFL doesn't agree with you that linemen are so easy to find later in the draft.
     
  12. fininpsl

    fininpsl A True Fan

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    Also your poll should read either Brandin Cooks and a tackle later or Ju'wuan james and Jarvis Landry later. The opportunity cost of not taking Cooks and a tackle later has a higher value the only Ju'wuan James.
     
  13. jim1

    jim1 Pro Bowler

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    Four of the Ravens' first eight picks were compensatory selections that couldn't be traded, making it difficult to maneuver. It was an elusive pursuit for the Ravens, who acknowledged before the draft that right tackle was one of their greatest needs.

    "You are correct," Ravens general manager Ozzie Newsome said. "The way the board was stacked, you could see that three or four went right away at the top of the first round. So, it wasn't stacked very well in that case. We were not going to just reach down and just take a player at the tackle position."

    Read more: http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/...12-20140511,0,6317789.story#ixzz32RqjQtg6Four of the Ravens' first eight picks were compensatory selections that couldn't be traded, making it difficult to maneuver. It was an elusive pursuit for the Ravens, who acknowledged before the draft that right tackle was one of their greatest needs.
    "You are correct," Ravens general manager Ozzie Newsome said. "The way the board was stacked, you could see that three or four went right away at the top of the first round. So, it wasn't stacked very well in that case. We were not going to just reach down and just take a player at the tackle position."


    Read more: http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/...t-0512-20140511,0,6317789.story#ixzz32RqjQtg6
     
  14. fininpsl

    fininpsl A True Fan

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    Of course Ozzie could be wrong on James too. As for the Ravens acknowledging that they needed a RT, they needed one so bad they didn't take one with any of their 9 picks in the draft. It certainly wasn't a desperate need. You have to look at the context in which Newsome was speaking. He was defending his pick of CJ Mosely over a perceived need. For all we know had Moseley not been on the board James would have been their pick. He goes BPA period. The Dolphins didn't have the option of taking CJ Mosely over Ju'wuan James, so we will never know if the Fins would have done the same thing the Ravens did if given the opportunity.
     
  15. Mudder1310

    Mudder1310 A True Fan

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    While I'm a huge fan of Cooks, I don't think Miami gets the same level of lineman as Landry. So IMHO James+Landry is a better move than Cooks+whichever OL is at the Landry pick. To be fair I was surprised Landry lasted so long. He's one of those guys you tend to overlook, but hate to play against him. Always open, always making plays, no errors, blocking downfield, I hate that guy unless he's a Dolphin.
     
  16. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Finheaven VIP Donator

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    James & LANDRY > Cooks & late round tackle

    And as far as having to, "pay a premium for speed", see Wallace. I'd rather have a WR not a track star (see Raiders).
     
  17. BlueFin

    BlueFin Seer of Visions Finheaven VIP

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    Cooks will be special for New Orleans and Drew Brees will love him.

    There is a reason some teams continue to win and contend and others flounder.

    I like James...but the obvious right thing to do was draft a playmaker or trade down...period.

    Any other spin on that is just BS and rationalization.

    Trade down and draft James or Bitonio, the Landry and Billy Turner picks remain the same and we had an additional 3rd rounder that by staying put or moving up could have turned into any of the following:

    Trai Turner
    Chris Borland
    Preston Brown
    Tre Mason
    Terrence West
    Sidney Moncrief
    Gabe Jackson
    Louis Nix
    Brandon Thomas

    etc etc..............

    It would have been nice to double down on the guard position.
     
  18. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Except we got our NFL pass protection ready RT and a premier play-maker in Landry. That much is obvious, not BS or rationalization.
     
  19. FSU Truth

    FSU Truth inside my DNA Finheaven VIP

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    We will see how that works out for them....last season they didn't address the position and had to make a mid season trade....
     
  20. BlueFin

    BlueFin Seer of Visions Finheaven VIP

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    You make my point...you just rationalized reaching at least 10 to 15 picks too early when a trade moving you down 7 or 8 spots was sitting there....that is what is obvious.

    Your eval. of James as NFL ready is not obvious...it is speculation.

    Look, I like James...like most I saw him going in the second round.

    Some teams maximize the opportunities and value...others don't.

    The Brandon Marshal & Wes Welker trades are perfect examples of how this organization squandered talent and value.

    The James panic pick reminds me of the Vernon Carey panic pick.
     
  21. BlueFin

    BlueFin Seer of Visions Finheaven VIP

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    Ozzie Newsomes track record speaks for itself........
     
  22. Mudder1310

    Mudder1310 A True Fan

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    When Welker left I don't think anyone saw his potential. Not quite the same a the Marshall deal.
     
  23. trojanma

    trojanma FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    You cant have it both ways.
    You cant say that Brandon Cooks being a star is nothing but your speculation.

    You act like the Saints are big winners because the know something we don't about drafting. That is BS. They are big winners because they have Drew Brees. Remember you are talking about a team that gave up a first round pick to select Mark Ingram.

    Also comparing our situation to Baltimores is disingenuous as well since they had the option of Moseley which would have been a very difficult choice for us.
     
  24. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Finheaven VIP Donator

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    It's not my evaluation. Check just about any scouting report on James and you'll find a plug n play RT with NFL ready pass protection skills. And all of it is speculation with every rookie.

    I'll take an 8 year starter, 9 season career tackle any day.

    Before or after 2009?
     
  25. BlueFin

    BlueFin Seer of Visions Finheaven VIP

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    Tony Mandarich was a number one overall pick....was he a lock or a plug and play player?

    There are no guarantees anybody will translate their college success to the NFL...and JuWan James is no LOCK to start 9 years at right tackle in the NFL at all...much less at a pro bowl level.

    The point here is based upon player evaluations...universally JuWan James was not considered in the top tier of tackles in this draft and Martin was the last of that group to go before our pick.

    There were HIGHER rated players than JuWan James on the board...players considered playmakers that we passed on to take the lower rated James....that is a reach.

    Trust me...I hope James works out, I am a 44 year Dolphin fan.

    The point here is....if James turns out to be a bust and playmakers that were passed on become great NFL players it is another example of the Dolphins passing on better players to fill a need. And it will doom this regime and Hickey's career as a GM.

    To argue against these facts is true cognitive dissonance and pure rationalization of our teams pick in order to feel better about it at days end.

    Again, I like James...just not at pick 19 of round 1.
     
  26. BlueFin

    BlueFin Seer of Visions Finheaven VIP

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    Well...I would hope our leadership...coaching, GM etc etc etc........would have the talent to recognize.

    I remember many....I mean many on this board that were upset at Welker leaving this team.
     
  27. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer 5 Years of Posting Excellence. Finheaven VIP Donator

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    We'll see what happens. I like Jarvis Landry but I'm just not convinced he's going to be the kind of top tier receiver the Dolphins need to finally acquire.

    My biggest complaint about Ja'Wuan James is that I still believe we could have traded back even just 2-3 spots and still drafted him. But I realize that *is* the kind of petty, armchair GM type of complaint that I probably shouldn't make in the first place.
     
  28. SF Dolphin Fan

    SF Dolphin Fan Seasoned Veteran

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    I believe Brandin Cooks was the best player available when Miami picked at #19. I also think Carlos Hyde was the best player available in round 2 when the Dolphins traded back a few times.

    I would have loved to have drafted those two 1-2. The team could still have traded up for Turner, but he would likely have to play RT rather than a guard spot. I think Miami could have found a guard in the 4th or 5th maybe Yankey or Dozier. I think Dozier might be a better fit as Yankey is more of a short area guy.

    So maybe the Dolphins draft looks more like this:
    1. Cooks WR
    2. Hyde RB (with one trade down instead of two)
    3. Turner OT/OG
    4. Dozier OG
    5. Tripp LB
    6. Hazel WR
    7. Fede DE or Anthonio "Tiny" Richardson OT
     
  29. uk_dolfan

    uk_dolfan Founder of the FH Adam Gase fan club Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    Would cooks have been a good RT? I have my doubts
     
  30. BlueFin

    BlueFin Seer of Visions Finheaven VIP

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    No...but he would have been an explosive addition to the offense and scored some touchdwns.

    Moses and others were around in round 2 and beyond and that was the point.
     
  31. jetsh8r

    jetsh8r A True Fan

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    The only player we have hit on is the one we spent a first round pick on. We waited in 2010 and ended up with Jerry.
     
  32. uk_dolfan

    uk_dolfan Founder of the FH Adam Gase fan club Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    From right tackle? Impressive for a converted wr
     
  33. Valandui

    Valandui Lumberjack Batman Donator

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    It should have.
     
  34. greasyObnoxious

    greasyObnoxious I love lamp Finheaven VIP Donator

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    "should" isn't going to win you anything
     
  35. finomenal

    finomenal A True Fan

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    Clever guy...
     
  36. Valandui

    Valandui Lumberjack Batman Donator

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    True, but it's proof that we've hardly been ignoring the OL over the years.
     
  37. greasyObnoxious

    greasyObnoxious I love lamp Finheaven VIP Donator

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    That's true, but it was still a mess. It still might be. I hope not.
     
  38. Buff

    Buff From a galaxy far far away.... Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Filled both positions of need with the best RT available, plus the best hands in the draft. I think its time for everyone to move on and see what James can do.
     
  39. Roman529

    Roman529 Moon Runner / The 3 AM Crew

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    To me we have to fix the O-line first. Cooks would have been a luxury pick, but unfortunately we are not a team that can take risks because we have to shore up our line thanks to two F-ups named Martin and Incognito, who are longer here.
     
  40. Gonzo

    Gonzo Widerstand Administrator Finheaven VIP

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    Based on who was available at the picks (and who may have been available if we hadn't drafted him):

    1) Cooks or Lee
    2) Landry, James, Moses, or Turner (though how do you pass up on Landry after he falls?)
    3 (w/ the trade up)) Marcus Martin

    And no, that's not hindsight. I've been a proponent of getting Pouncey's eventual replacement for a while.
     
  41. tay0365

    tay0365 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    A tad little premature on that evaluation on James, don't you think? Especially when you consider in college, he played the position he will be playing in the NFL as well as anyone.
     
  42. tay0365

    tay0365 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Basically of all those players, seems the ones in the 1st round actually worked out better then 2nd round and beyond, so maybe taking a chance on another 1st round talent for the position we need the most might not be a bad idea.
     
  43. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I'll take James b/c that pick led to Landry. I'll take work ethic and by far the most exceptional hands out of all 2014 drafted WR's (only 2.5% drop rate @ LSU. Well to do college WR's avg 6-7%) over a little flash n dash any day. Plus, you can't ask too much more out of James so far as he looks to start from day one at RT (though, it could be argued that wasn't a difficult spot to upend).
     
  44. Martel13

    Martel13 Since '84 Super Donator

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    Brandin Cooks is gonna light it up in this league imo
     
  45. BlueFin

    BlueFin Seer of Visions Finheaven VIP

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    Well...it's early but they both appear to be good players.
     
  46. Tannenbombs

    Tannenbombs FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Cooks is the superior player but I can see why James was the pick. He's a good starting right tackle and it was a HUGE need. This is one of the rare cases where need outweighs BPA because your quarterback was sacked 58 times the year before. I had him as a mid/late round 1st so it's not like they reached for him, he's a plug and play RT. If they would have been able to seal the deal with Zach Strief, then Cooks should have been the pick. James was a good pick.
     
  47. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Simple minded fantasy football analysis.

    James was a great pick.
     
  48. Tannenbombs

    Tannenbombs FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Not at all. Cooks was the best route runner and YAC receiver in the draft. Sure handed and has OUTSTANDING athleticism. 4.31 40, 36 inch vertical, 3.81 20 yard shuttle, and 6.76 3 cone are unreal #s. Not taking anything away from James but saying that is simple minded fantasy football analysis you're ****ing high. Cooks is better than any receiver on the roster right now. I still like the James pick but NO ONE had James rated as a higher prospect. I'm not taking anything away from James he will be a good starting RT long term. And it was a huge need. I get the pick. It was a good one. But no one anywhere had Ja'Wuan James rated as a better prospect than Brandin Cooks. Why don't you ask TedSlimmJr., Ckparrothead, or Hooshoops who is the BETTER PROSPECT OVERALL?
     
  49. finomenal

    finomenal A True Fan

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    Hey now. Don't disparage the weed smokers. :lol:
     
  50. BlueFin

    BlueFin Seer of Visions Finheaven VIP

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    Cooks was my pick.....but it's hard to criticize the James pick with the much needed improvement in the O-line we've seen so far.
     

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