Jets Robertson Deal Falls Through

[Da Phinishisher]

Valid points fellas. To counter the Joey Porter point, we knew he was overpaid and had the same blind confidence (got to as fans), but he was just one huge commitment. The Jets have made several this year, which is why there is the speculation Mangini is on the hot seat...

 

[afishfan]

I have respect for your acquisition of talent, not trying to bait at all, but does all that guaranteed money accurately represent the talent you acquired? of course not, no team outright wins during FA in terms of value. The Jets have chosen to throw that money around so that is why the jets are catching some flak at the moment

well in their defense, there is a TON of decision making that goes into free agency if you do it right that none of us even think about. for one thing, even though we hear all the time how recently how stupid it is to sign players to big contracts cause they never pan out etc etc. I disagree if it is done correctly. In the last few years the cap has gone up significantly, so who really knows (regardless of cap space available) what kind of long term position the Jets may be in with cap- I'm sure they have some plan. Also, how can you get better quickly without some good signings?? One intelligent thing to do perhaps depending on how many players you having entering free agency is sign a bunch of guys one year and let marginal players (in your system) leave the next - that way you maximize supplemental picks (look at the pats this year - they probably just secured at least 4 3rd round draft picks next year - that is so huge!!!! you will not see them sign any free agents besides moss for this reason) they set this up to happen with one year deals to stallworth (who will get them a third rounder - ts unbelievable).

The jets need players just like us and the only signing I don't like is the Woody signing. The only way Faneca doesn't work out is if the Jets aren't good in two years. And in some ways it makes sense anyways (take a look at what Dave Dombrowski has done with the Detroit Tigers in a couple of years - he overpaid for Pudge and Ordonez and gave them credability instantly - now guys want to be there).

I like your aggressive approach. It wouldn't work for us (parcells brings the credability by his presence alone) and we probably are further away in some areas. I think it works for you guys though - as I am equally ecstatic about our free agency (with the exception of PACE!!! - jerks). The only signgin that might not work out is Smiley - but he was the best available guy for us - Fanaca doesnt make sense cause we need 3 positions filled on the line and we need to stick with younger guys if possible and he was a 2nd rounder and is 26.

The key to both teams .....good line (both working on it)....playmakers on defense (you guys got one closer with Pace). and Quarterback ( I'll take our guys) but neither of us have that position settled until we can get a guy to play with somewhere around an 85 qb rating and not take a ton of sacks and fumble the ball. If either team gets that qb play = regardless they will be a .500 team already - thats how the league works.

So any speculation about either team really doesnt matter = it all comes down to quarterback. and we both have questions, and perhaps we both have a potential answer (Beck and KK). its up to the qbs

 

[jetsman]

Valid points fellas. To counter the Joey Porter point, we knew he was overpaid and had the same blind confidence (got to as fans), but he was just one huge commitment. The Jets have made several this year, which is why there is the speculation Mangini is on the hot seat...

I'm not sure if he is on the hot seat,no one is,but I think after coming here he was trying not to be too disruptive and used players that didn't really fit his system.He got away with it the first year when we had a weaker schedule and won 10 games,but last season I think convinced him he needed to get rid of guys who don't fit the system,regardless of whether they are good players or not,i.e Vilma and Robertson.He is bringing in guys that are prototypical 3-4 guys and I think we will make big strides because of that fact.

 

[jvw]

I was visiting Gang Green (the Jets fan forum) and they were all talking about how their cap guru was the best in the business (sorry I cannot think of his name). Sounds to me like the Jets have overspent.

His name is Tannenbaum or something like that he is good

 

[Itsdahumidity]

I'm not sure if he is on the hot seat,no one is,but I think after coming here he was trying not to be too disruptive and used players that didn't really fit his system.He got away with it the first year when we had a weaker schedule and won 10 games,but last season I think convinced him he needed to get rid of guys who don't fit the system,regardless of whether they are good players or not,i.e Vilma and Robertson.He is bringing in guys that are prototypical 3-4 guys and I think we will make big strides because of that fact.

Oh make no mistake jetsman, mangini is definitely on the hot seat. What he's doing to your defense now should have been done on day one(he's either stubborn w/ his scheme or don't know how to run any other).

So it's at least a 2 year setback. With the coin you guys spent, your team better get to the playoffs for mangini's sake.

 

[jetsman]

His name is Tannenbaum or something like that he is good

Yes,you're correct.

 

[jetsman]

Oh make no mistake jetsman, mangini is definitely on the hot seat. What he's doing to your defense now should have been done on day one(he's either stubborn w/ his scheme or don't know how to run any other).

So it's at least a 2 year setback. With the coin you guys spent, your team better get to the playoffs for mangini's sake.

He couldn't do it from day one because we didn't have the cap space.I explained in my earlier post why I believe he waited.

 

[PMZQ]

Ouch, thats horrible news.

:up: :beer1:

 

[jetsman]

:up: :beer1:

....annnnnddddd.....completely UNTRUE............:sidelol:

 

[Itsdahumidity]

He couldn't do it from day one because we didn't have the cap space.I explained in my earlier post why I believe he waited.

Oh, I didn't read the entire thread but I'm not talking about the big signings. He should have traded Vilma & Robertson for bigger players, thus getting proper value in return. 3 # ones down the toilet, sheesh I thought we threw away picks.

 

[Da Phinishisher]

Just curious Jets fans, what kind of expectations the media is putting out there after the moves so far. Are playoffs being mentioned? I'm just wondering cause I remember how it was for Miami and Porter, but I live in Denver and they had an offseason last year similiar to yours this year and SB was being touted.

 

[whatsburning]

We should bring Robertson in for a 5th or 6th rounder to play end on the line. He runs a 4.85 and would be good at rushing the passer out of a 3-4 as an end. I can see him doing great things if we get him for the end spot. He is a little bigger than most, but we could get him to either slim down a little bit or just play big.

Why in the world would we want to help the Jests salvage their cap situation?? This suggestion is the same thing that happened with the Wes Welker deal... NE signed him to a ridiculous offer sheet worth more than 5 mil a year, then offered an extra 7th to us to get him outright, then signed him to a cap-friendly 3 mil/year deal. All for a 7th round pick??? We could've let him go to NE for the 2nd round tender, and have him count against their cap for 5 mil +/year instead of the manageable 3 mil.

 

[pags77]

Just curious Jets fans, what kind of expectations the media is putting out there after the moves so far. Are playoffs being mentioned? I'm just wondering cause I remember how it was for Miami and Porter, but I live in Denver and they had an offseason last year similiar to yours this year and SB was being touted.

Definitely not a Jets fan but living in NY, get to listen to a lot of local sports-talk and most "experts" like the bold moves the Jets are making.
The offensive line should be a strong point for this team with Faneca taking a leadership role and making guys like Mangold and Ferguson better. There is a recognition that they need playmakers at the QB and RB position to compliment the talented O-line they have put together. They are looking for playmakers in the draft.
On the defensive side, they feel they are bringing in the "right" players to make the base 3-4 work. The feeling was Vilma and Robertson were more suited for the 4-3.

 

[swankdaddy7]

Most contracts are imaginary numbers that are never reached because the base salaries are backloaded with HUGE amounts of cash that the player will never actually get paid.He is probably scheduled to make around $10 million per year in base salary in the final two years of that deal,which is $20 million.
The team will either renegotiate that deal around year 4 or cut the player with no significant cap penalty at that time,other than the remaining prorated bonus money.The deal is actually for the guaranteed potion and nothing more really.That means we will actually pay him in the neighborhood of around $26-28 million for this deal.

You are not refuting the ESPN report that $26 million is paid in the first three years. Therefore it is not as backloaded as you are trying to state. That's an average of $8.7 million per year over the first three years.

 

[jetsman]

You are not refuting the ESPN report that $26 million is paid in the first three years. Therefore it is not as backloaded as you are trying to state. That's an average of $8.7 million per year over the first three years.

I take ESPN with a grain of salt until the team confirms the details.ESPN also reported we traded Vilma for a conditional 2009 4th round pick.That turned out to not be the case.We traded Vilma for a 2008 4th rounder and a conditional 2009 pick which can beno lower than a 3rd and as high as a 2nd rounder.

Even if they pay $26 mil in the first three years,there could be a clause for automatic renegotiation based on certain easily reached incentives.Trust me,you guys are hoping we broke the bank,but I know our GM,and one thing he is not going to do is screw up the cap.Your man Parcells called him an ABSOLUTE GENIUS and rising STAR when he was with the Jets organization.So far,that has proven to be true.