Jets Show Interest In Ronnie Brown

[nyjunc]

Do you think I should believe Mark Sanchez is elite? Have him win a ring and have the Jets make the playoffs every year or close to it and we'll talk. The QBs I mentioned above are elite b/c they've won rings and are at the top of the league in wins and other important statistics.

when did I ever say Sanchez was elite? of course he isn't elite.

what important stats has Eli been at the top of other than leading in INTs? Eli had an excellent postseason this year and a good one 5 years ago but he needs to be consistently great all year to be a true elite QB.

 

[DuderinoN703]

I am counting the latest era in Jets history where the Jets have been one of the best teams, an elite team, in the NFL. In the last 6-10-12 they have been one of the better teams in the AFC but not elite.

You named SB champs, they give out a trophy to those guys. They are elite but others are elite too. You still haven't answered my question on how there can be multiple elite QBs per year but not multiple elite teams?

I also disagree about the Jets being one of the better team in the last 6-12 years. In '09 and '10 they were good, which I've acknowledged, b/c of where they finished. What about going 6-10 in 2003 and 4-12 in 2005 and 2007? That isn't being better. Their best record since 2000 is 11-5.

Pittsburgh: 12-4 three times, 10-5-1, 10-6, 15-1, and 13-3. They've had one .500 season, one 6-10 season, and one 9-7 season.
New England: Won 10+ games each season since 2003. Their last ****tiest season was 5-11 in 2000.
Indy: With a healthy Manning had won 10+ games each season from 2002-2010. Two SB appearances with one win.

Those are the elite AFC teams. I'll even throw in San Diego who since 2000 has won 10+ games in four seasons and Baltimore who have won 10+ games five times since 2000.

 

[DuderinoN703]

when did I ever say Sanchez was elite? of course he isn't elite.

what important stats has Eli been at the top of other than leading in INTs? Eli had an excellent postseason this year and a good one 5 years ago but he needs to be consistently great all year to be a true elite QB.

I know you didn't say that but you're making it seem like a team can be elite without the QB being elite. This isn't true. The last elite team with a ****ty QB was Baltimore with Dilfer but the NFL has changed more to the offensive side of football since 2000.

I've already told you I'm not getting into the Eli elite discussion. Stick to the topic at hand which is the Jets not being elite.

 

[nyjunc]

I know you didn't say that but you're making it seem like a team can be elite without the QB being elite. This isn't true. The last elite team with a ****ty QB was Baltimore with Dilfer but the NFL has changed more to the offensive side of football since 2000.

I've already told you I'm not getting into the Eli elite discussion. Stick to the topic at hand which is the Jets not being elite.

The last team to win w/o an elite QB was the 2011 NY Giants and the 2007 NY Giants, prior to that it was TB w/ Brad Johnson in '02, NE in '01(Brady wasn't yet elite), Dilfer in '00, pre-'00 you'd have to go back to '90 & '91 w/ Jeff Hostetler & Mark Rypien(though Rypien had an elite year).

Explain to me how a team has the most playoff wins and most title game apps yet they aren't elite? how does that work exactly? are you saying only NFC teams have been elite the last 3 years?

 

[Vaark]

I am willing to give the jest credit for one very good year (2010) including a legitimate wild card entry into the playoffs and 2 legitimate wins against decent competition. However, even then they did not carry their own division, and that's with 2 teams in it playing sub .500 ball, so there's that.

To try to package that single season as "elite" by sandwiching it in between a worse than mediocre team who lost 6 of 7, beat competition playing at barely a .300 winning rate and couldn't win at home in the game they needed to against a team that no longer cared that once gifted into the POs went on a 2 game winning streak against questionable competition....and then incredibly the most recent team which went 8-8, including losing 5 out of their last 9 and falling short in the games they needed to win, including vs us. That's ridiculous as is depicting a team with 1 very good year as "elite" then and carrying it forward to now.

At best I will concede 1 good year, 1 year so incredibly lucky that the league immediately revised their late season scheduling policies and 1 just plain mediocre year where for once the team couldn't compensate for subpar QBing and the HC couldn't control a cancerous lockerroom.

3 years elite? WTF??? LMAO!!

 

[nyjunc]

Thanks Vaark for giving the Jets credit in 2010, I feel much better now

Let's try a blind test here over a 3 year stretch.

Team X has more playoff wins than any team in their conference
Team X has advanced to their conf title game more than any team in the NFL
Team X is tied for the lead w/ most playoff wins in this span.

Team X isn't elite?

 

[DuderinoN703]

The last team to win w/o an elite QB was the 2011 NY Giants and the 2007 NY Giants, prior to that it was TB w/ Brad Johnson in '02, NE in '01(Brady wasn't yet elite), Dilfer in '00, pre-'00 you'd have to go back to '90 & '91 w/ Jeff Hostetler & Mark Rypien(though Rypien had an elite year).

You have a thick skull seeing as you continue to try and get me to talk about Eli Manning and his being elite. No.

Tampa Bay has never been elite. I also never said Brady was elite in '01.

---------- Post added at 06:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:06 PM ----------

Explain to me how a team has the most playoff wins and most title game apps yet they aren't elite? how does that work exactly? are you saying only NFC teams have been elite the last 3 years?

Here's my explanation for the 10th time. You don't get to or win the Super Bowl, you aren't elite. It's as simple as 1+1 = 2

What NFC teams did I list as elite aren't in your opinion? You're jealous of the Giants so I don't expect you to respect them. Green Bay? Championship. New Orleans? Championship.

Anyone else you want to mention?

---------- Post added at 06:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:08 PM ----------

Thanks Vaark for giving the Jets credit in 2010, I feel much better now

Let's try a blind test here over a 3 year stretch.

Team X has more playoff wins than any team in their conference
Team X has advanced to their conf title game more than any team in the NFL
Team X is tied for the lead w/ most playoff wins in this span.

Team X isn't elite?

You mock Vaark's apparent accepting of the Jets good year in 2010 but honestly man I think that's what you want here. Why else spend hours on end trying to get people to see your view of the New York Jets? If we all agreed they were elite, what then?

---------- Post added at 06:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:10 PM ----------

Thanks Vaark for giving the Jets credit in 2010, I feel much better now

Let's try a blind test here over a 3 year stretch.

Team X has more playoff wins than any team in their conference
Team X has advanced to their conf title game more than any team in the NFL
Team X is tied for the lead w/ most playoff wins in this span.

Team X isn't elite?

You can give me a phantom example all you want, I've used facts from the start in this conversation. I will repeat myself until the cows come home.

No title = no being elite. Win all the regular season games you want and make the playoffs all you want. The goal is to win it all. Do that and you're elite. Continue to fall short, you are not elite.

 

[Vaark]

Thanks Vaark for giving the Jets credit in 2010, I feel much better now

Let's try a blind test here over a 3 year stretch.

Team X has more playoff wins than any team in their conference
Team X has advanced to their conf title game more than any team in the NFL
Team X is tied for the lead w/ most playoff wins in this span.

Team X isn't elite?

Depends how many times they've stepped up to both get into and then win the Superbowl over a relative amount of time depicted by winning seasons. (ya know, a little like the guy who won the SB MVP 2 out of the last 4 campaigns). If you don't win championships, you are just an also-ran. And that's the litmus test most reasonable, objective and non-connected fans and media apply. It just is what it is. Like that expression: "Scoreboard" and all of that :idk:

edit: but not to worry, I have thought of a way to impartially determine just what "elite" is once.. stay tuned

 

[DisturbedShifty]

Thanks Vaark for giving the Jets credit in 2010, I feel much better now

Let's try a blind test here over a 3 year stretch.

Team X has more playoff wins than any team in their conference
Team X has advanced to their conf title game more than any team in the NFL
Team X is tied for the lead w/ most playoff wins in this span.

Team X isn't elite?

No. Because if team X were elite they would have made actually made two Super Bowl appearances in the said three year time frame. Not gotten to the door step and then fall short. If anything they are a great team, but certainly not elite.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

 

[DuderinoN703]

I am willing to give the jest credit for one very good year (2010) including a legitimate wild card entry into the playoffs and 2 legitimate wins against decent competition. However, even then they did not carry their own division, and that's with 2 teams in it playing sub .500 ball, so there's that.

To try to package that single season as "elite" by sandwiching it in between a worse than mediocre team who lost 6 of 7, beat competition playing at barely a .300 winning rate and couldn't win at home in the game they needed to against a team that no longer cared that once gifted into the POs went on a 2 game winning streak against questionable competition....and then incredibly the most recent team which went 8-8, including losing 5 out of their last 9 and falling short in the games they needed to win, including vs us. That's ridiculous as is depicting a team with 1 very good year as "elite" then and carrying it forward to now.

At best I will concede 1 good year, 1 year so incredibly lucky that the league immediately revised their late season scheduling policies and 1 just plain mediocre year where for once the team couldn't compensate for subpar QBing and the HC couldn't control a cancerous lockerroom.

3 years elite? WTF??? LMAO!!

In my opinion of being elite or not, it isn't an achievement one can gain quickly or lose quickly. You can't be elite without winning a title for starters.

Let's say the Jets won the SB in 2009. Then they make the playoffs the next two years (it doesn't matter what they did in them). Are they elite in my definition? Yes. If they win it in 2009 and fail to make the playoffs the next two years, are they elite? No.

It isn't as simple as being elite in just a matter of one year. Making the playoffs yearly without getting to the league championship isn't being elite. Can you be called elite when you constantly fail to advance as far as you can and win?

---------- Post added at 06:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:14 PM ----------

No. Because if team X were elite they would have made actually made two Super Bowl appearances in the said three year time frame. Not gotten to the door step and then fall short. If anything they are a great team, but certainly not elite.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

I wouldn't even call them a great team. How great can you be if you get that far twice and lose both times? They had a great run in the playoffs but that's it. I'd say this about ANY team that had the same track record.

 

[RockyMtnPhinfan]

Of course they are, "The Meatball" is the coach. He is as hardheaded and stubborn as my wife.

 

[Vaark]

In my opinion of being elite or not, it isn't an achievement one can gain quickly or lose quickly. You can't be elite without winning a title for starters.

Let's say the Jets won the SB in 2009. Then they make the playoffs the next two years (it doesn't matter what they did in them). Are they elite in my definition? Yes. If they win it in 2009 and fail to make the playoffs the next two years, are they elite? No.

It isn't as simple as being elite in just a matter of one year. Making the playoffs yearly without getting to the league championship isn't being elite. Can you be called elite when you constantly fail to advance as far as you can and win?

---------- Post added at 06:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:14 PM ----------



I wouldn't even call them a great team. How great can you be if you get that far twice and lose both times? They had a great run in the playoffs but that's it. I'd say this about ANY team that had the same track record.

I don't disagree so long as at least one of those years they won it all. Or hell, at least they carried their own division. Or double hell, at least they accessed the playoffs the old fashioned way in that "they earned it."

Did you really think that Buffalo through their run was "elite?" I didn't because every year in the SB they found a way to choke when it counted most! I thought they were very good considering what it took to get there, but be it a choking team or an inferior team, no matter which one you choose, cannot be elite if they don't make the final cut.

You know with some folks, there's a flexible curve that tends to get applied conveniently. In this case, it's making it to 2 Conference Title games, not winning it; Can't you just as easily foresee that shifting "elite" definition instead having been either "getting to the SB once" or even "getting to the Conference Championship 2x in 3years." IMO, there's too much poetic license being used when defining the word "elite." It's incomprehensible how a QB who won the SB MVP 2 out of the last 4 years is NOT "elite" but a team who couldn't even sniff the SB 4 out of the last 4 years is. Go figure :idk:

 

[DuderinoN703]

I don't disagree so long as at least one of those years they won it all. Or hell, at least they carried their own division. Or double hell, at least they accessed the playoffs the old fashioned way in that "they earned it."

Did you really think that Buffalo through their run was "elite?" I didn't because every year in the SB they found a way to choke when it counted most! I thought they were very good considering what it took to get there, but be it a choking team or an inferior team, no matter which one you choose, cannot be elite if they don't make the final cut.

The Bills are the one exception I think. Getting to the SB four straight years is something unheard of. Yeah they choked it all away but still it's a remarkable achievement. If anything they were AFC-elite. It's the one exception out of all of the examples we could discuss.

---------- Post added at 06:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:22 PM ----------

What about when Junc says the Jets have been one of the best AFC teams since 2000? See my post #77 for details

 

[Vaark]

The Bills are the one exception I think. Getting to the SB four straight years is something unheard of. Yeah they choked it all away but still it's a remarkable achievement. If anything they were AFC-elite. It's the one exception out of all of the examples we could discuss.


---------- Post added at 06:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:22 PM ----------

What about when Junc says the Jets have been one of the best AFC teams since 2000? See my post #77 for details

I dunno about SD considering both Marty and Norv are choke artists themselves, but in principal I agree with you about the other teams, each of which have not only made the SB during their reigns but won them at least once. I don't think Baltimore is elite, but if it's between them and the jest, they've actually been to to the POs 4 x in 4 years, actually won their own division, and have won 5 PO games, so if I had to choose between the 2, it would be a no brainer. The Colts in 09 shellacking the jest when the starters were playing instead of Curtis ****ing Painter and his scary 4QBR just makes it easier to dismiss any claims of elitism since it effectively negates any illusion that 1 year was anything more than a lucky gift. And don't get me wrong, I'm thankful for that.

 

[DuderinoN703]

I dunno about SD considering both Marty and Norv are choke artists themselves, but in principal I agree with you about the other teams, each of which have not only made the SB during their reigns but won them at least once. I don't think Baltimore is elite, but if it's between them and the jest, they've actually been to to the POs 4 x in 4 years, actually won their own division, and have won 5 PO games, so if I had to choose between the 2, it would be a no brainer. The Colts in 09 shellacking the jest when the starters were playing instead of Curtis ****ing Painter and his scary 4QBR just makes it easier to dismiss any claims of elitism since it effectively negates any illusion that 1 year was anything more than a lucky gift. And don't get me wrong, I'm thankful for that.

Baltimore was elite in the early 2000s. Some of their defense still remains from those years and once those guys are gone, the elite tag (which I don't really consider them) would wear off if they don't make another SB run. San Diego isn't elite but has had some success since 2000.