Jimmy Johnson on F/A | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Jimmy Johnson on F/A

People keep saying about Hill and Chubb being our first round picks and they look pretty good. The problem is the cost of them compared to first round (or any other round) picks. This is why trading picks for established players is the not the long term way to build a dynasty. You can go for it for a year or maybe two, but that's it.
 
dolfan91 said:
I agree. But Miami wouldn't be in this predicament if Grier had not signed Armstead and traded for Chubb, paying both huge sums of money. Miami is going to potentially lose out on their own players. Guys who deserve to get paid in Wilkins, Hunt and AVG.
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Dead horse > Grier DOES NOT sign any player without discussing ramifications with the HC. Yes, Grier gets some blame, but absolving Mcd, or any HC, by ignoring their involvement in the decision isn't fair to Grier or any GM. No GM sits in a vault and makes those decisions
Grier, talking to himself - well, I'll sign Murray, Kittle, and Diggs. No need to tell Mcd it'll cost all draft picks for 3 yrs or that he'll only be able to afford UDFAs for the next 10 yrs. I'll surprise him in February.
 
NY8123 said:
It's like saying I am trading my cake for pie but the pie doesn't count in the desert selection. Doesn't work that way.

2020 I am not even going into this draft since half the current team is starting because of it (7 current players)
2021 he went Waddle, Phillips, Holland + three other current players
2022 is where Hill comes into play and Chubb (Ez-E and Goode are solid backups, Tindall looks like a wiff).
2023 Cam Smith and Achane (Smith is by far not a bust at this point, dude has played one season and Achane looks the part. Higgins was drafted as a WR/TE they rarely contribute in year 1).

:shrug:
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It does for me when I'm only talking about Grier's drafting abilities. That is a totally different subject than the trades he has made. Ya he has given up draft picks for players but I'm not talking about that. So far the only player that he has drafted in the last two years that has made an impact is Achane. That is not good enough.
 
Ryan1973 said:
It does for me when I'm only talking about Grier's drafting abilities. That is a totally different subject than the trades he has made. Ya he has given up draft picks for players but I'm not talking about that. So far the only player that he has drafted in the last two years that has made an impact is Achane. That is not good enough.
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So for me the culmination of Grier's drafting abilities doesn't lie only on the past 2 years where he made huge free agent moves, I also take into account the two years prior where we have 13 drafted players currently contributing on the roster, 18 in total with trades. This does not count guys like Williams, Wilson and other FAs he didn't give up a draft picks for.

Drafting ability isn't about drafting, it is about filling team needs with the best players available, the Chiefs got some solid players in return for the Hill trade but none the quality of Hill. Also, having Patrick Mahomes, the best QB in the NFL thru 7 years makes moving on from guys like Hill easier than a typical roster. I love Tua but he isn't Mahomes, no one is not even the GOAT Tom Brady when comparing he first 7 seasons.

Grier has drafted multiple all-pros and pro-bowl talents, he's made several outstanding trades, Miami was penalized (wrongly in my opinion) a 1st round pick by the NFL which also hindered one of the draft classes or we would likely be talking about another player starting from 2023.
 
NY8123 said:
So for me the culmination of Grier's drafting abilities doesn't lie only on the past 2 years where he made huge free agent moves, I also take into account the two years prior where we have 13 drafted players currently contributing on the roster, 18 in total with trades. This does not count guys like Williams, Wilson and other FAs he didn't give up a draft picks for.

Drafting ability isn't about drafting, it is about filling team needs with the best players available, the Chiefs got some solid players in return for the Hill trade but none the quality of Hill. Also, having Patrick Mahomes, the best QB in the NFL thru 7 years makes moving on from guys like Hill easier than a typical roster. I love Tua but he isn't Mahomes, no one is not even the GOAT Tom Brady when comparing he first 7 seasons.

Grier has drafted multiple all-pros and pro-bowl talents, he's made several outstanding trades, Miami was penalized (wrongly in my opinion) a 1st round pick by the NFL which also hindered one of the draft classes or we would likely be talking about another player starting from 2023.
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But teams like the Chiefs seem to always draft well. They find impact players in the mid rounds. I just don't think Grier has done a good enough job of drafting young talent. You can't have your 2nd round pick sitting out all year like with what happened with Cam Smith this past season. I know Fangio didn't like him but so far he is bust until proven otherwise. Same goes for Channing Tindall who was a 3rd round pick in 2022.
 
The first round picks Grier traded for Hill and Chubb were at the back end of the draft, essentially a second rounder. At the time Hill,(MVP candidate) and Chubb (Top 10 pass rusher) were infinitely better than a late round project that would still be developing, something that may never happen. Third round picks rarely become regular starters, more like special team-er's or career backups. Hindsight is always 20/20, 'I told you so warriors'...
 
Ryan1973 said:
But teams like the Chiefs seem to always draft well. They find impact players in the mid rounds. I just don't think Grier has done a good enough job of drafting young talent. You can't have your 2nd round pick sitting out all year like with what happened with Cam Smith this past season. I know Fangio didn't like him but so far he is bust until proven otherwise. Same goes for Channing Tindall who was a 3rd round pick in 2022.
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I am not ready to write off Cam Smith. I'll give you Tindall, doubt that dude will ever sniff the field at this point but again Grier filled needs other ways in those years. KC is a well run franchise, having Andy Reid (who I feel is the best NFL coach of this era, beyond the Hoodie) is huge.

Miami has been saddled with coaching turnover and constant change, if you look at Franchises like KC, Pitt, San Fran, Dallas and New England there are two constants 1) a good QB and 2) low turnover in the front office. Miami had neither of those two until recent years.
 
fansinceGWilson said:
Dead horse > Grier DOES NOT sign any player without discussing ramifications with the HC. Yes, Grier gets some blame, but absolving Mcd, or any HC, by ignoring their involvement in the decision isn't fair to Grier or any GM. No GM sits in a vault and makes those decisions
Grier, talking to himself - well, I'll sign Murray, Kittle, and Diggs. No need to tell Mcd it'll cost all draft picks for 3 yrs or that he'll only be able to afford UDFAs for the next 10 yrs. I'll surprise him in February.
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Weak argument. When teams clean house they usually hire a GM first. The GM is supposed to have a vision of how they want to build the team. And he hires his coaching staff accordingly. Your giving Grier the excuse he uses when it comes time for evaluation of his job. It's bull crap. At the end of the day, he is responsible for building a winning roster. If he isn't doing that, he needs to be let go. Let him be a yes man for another team. He should've hired a coach with some ****ing experience. Since he's been GM, we haven't had one HC with HC experience... not a coincidence we aren't winning ****
 
Ryan1973 said:
Not really because they weren't drafted by the Dolphins. Grier had to trade for them.
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Can't have an intelligent and fair discussion on FH re evaluating Grier's Draft history. In case it isn't obvious, draft picks are effectively the currency of the NFL. To evaluate the full Draft performance you also have to account for the draft picks divested to acquire established players.
 
spiketex said:
Can't have an intelligent and fair discussion on FH re evaluating Grier's Draft history. In case it isn't obvious, draft picks are effectively the currency of the NFL. To evaluate the full Draft performance you also have to account for the draft picks divested to acquire established players.
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I get what your saying but I think what they are saying is it isn't just giving up the draft pick for them. It's the paying those guys crazy amounts of money immediately after. With the draft, you don't have to pay the players stupid amounts of money. That's probably what they were trying to get at.
 
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