Jones vs. Weeden...let our debates commence | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Jones vs. Weeden...let our debates commence

Hayden Fox

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We have had some spirited debates around here concerning Weeden. Tomorrow he faces a legit defense and an offense that will get after his own defense.

Landry Jones has a huge opportunity to show progression and get into a BCS Bowl for possibly his final college game.

I am not a Jones guy, but think he is much better than Weeden. Jones could elevate up the draft charts if other underclassmen do not enter.

Strong arm. However, he is always in the gun, has had legit talent on the outside, gets all his plays/adjustments from the sideline and makes some questionable throws. However, does he have the tools to have a strong QB-orientated coach to develop him into a Matt Schaub?
 
Don't really for both QBs. If Weeden was 5 years younger, yes. But, it's Luck, Barkley, RGIII or bust IMO.
 
I'd much rather have Weeden. It's not about his upside, it's about his lack of downside.

Jones however has TONS of downside imo. He doesn't look or feel like a leader at all. There's not an inch of "it" factor whatsoever that I've seen. He is just god awful under pressure and totally melts. He also has horrible awareness in there, poor pocket presence. He's very skittish, bails way too early, and his footwork totally stinks as a result. He cannot step up into the pocket to lay in a throw at all when under pressure. Atrocious against the blitz and gets rattled. Forces throws into coverage too often for my liking. He locks onto receivers.

He is simply not a good improviser , at all.

Moreover, he is not running a read offense. He stinks in reads and in the NFL you better be good at it and he sucks at it. He DOES NOT KNOW HOW TO SCAN THE FIELD like let's say a Luck, Barkley, or Weeden can do with ease. Landry Jones is a lot like Henne of 2010 in many ways. In other words, Jones has no (or a poor) head for the game and doesn't come close to having all it takes for the position to lead a Pro team to glory.

Like Henne, Landry Jones' throws need more arc. And like Henne, Jones' deep ball is quite shaky. I think Jones is just another Gabbert who will totally fold in the NFL

If we pick jones I'm done with the dolphins, for good. I would EASILY take Nick Foles or Ryan Tannehill over Jones. Whatever team totally wastes a 1st round pick on Jones will be very sorry. Let's hope the Dolphins are not stupid enough.
 
I'd much rather have Weeden. It's not about his upside, it's about his lack of downside.

Jones however has TONS of downside imo. He doesn't look or feel like a leader at all. There's not an inch of "it" factor whatsoever that I've seen. He is just god awful under pressure and totally melts. He also has horrible awareness in there, poor pocket presence. He's very skittish, bails way too early, and his footwork totally stinks as a result. He cannot step up into the pocket to lay in a throw at all when under pressure. Atrocious against the blitz and gets rattled. Forces throws into coverage too often for my liking. He locks onto receivers.

He is simply not a good improviser , at all.

Moreover, he is not running a read offense. He stinks in reads and in the NFL you better be good at it and he sucks at it. He DOES NOT KNOW HOW TO SCAN THE FIELD like let's say a Luck, Barkley, or Weeden can do with ease. Landry Jones is a lot like Henne of 2010 in many ways. In other words, Jones has no (or a poor) head for the game and doesn't come close to having all it takes for the position to lead a Pro team to glory.

Like Henne, Landry Jones' throws need more arc. And like Henne, Jones' deep ball is quite shaky. I think Jones is just another Gabbert who will totally fold in the NFL

If we pick jones I'm done with the dolphins, for good. I would EASILY take Nick Foles or Ryan Tannehill over Jones. Whatever team totally wastes a 1st round pick on Jones will be very sorry. Let's hope the Dolphins are not stupid enough.

Going into the week 3, Jones was my number 2 QB.....that has changed quite a bit.
I have seen every OU game this season, and there is much truth in what you say....cept, Jones is more talented than Henne

Jones CAN make all the throws. I have seen him make some really really nice throws.....sometimes.
Jones DOES try to lead. He does have that element.
Jones CAN move in the pocket. In fact, this might be his best assett. For a guy his size, he is VERY savvy.

Now then.
Jones too often locks onto one target and never looks anywhere else.
Jones is erratic at times. And I mean VERY VERY erratic. I have seen him miss like Tebow misses. Not nearly as often, maybe 4 or 6 throws a game, but in the pros, that could be as many INT's.
I think that Stoops et el has done a good job of scripting what Jones is expected to do on any given play. He doesnt show the perpencity to think on the run, or even in the pocket sometimes.


Weeden on the other hand, really reminds me ALOT of throwback guys like Tarkenton, or even Joe Montana greatly reduxed. He seems to make the right throw 90 percent of the time. He has great touch, and can throw the long ball very very well...and the kid has incredible savvy when in trouble.

Right now, I have Weeden light years ahead of Jones. Jones, in the right situation, sitting behind a very good QB for a few years, could end up being a really good 5 year project (Damn, I pray he doesn't go to the Cheatriots), but right out of the shoot, like we would need, he's not the guy for us IMVHO
 
Ball placement and pocket comfortability/presence. (or "FEEL" in the pocket)

Those 2 things you look for 1st and foremost. Look at all the top QB's and they're geniuses with their pocket presence, it's effortless for them, and all have terrific top-caliber ball placement.. The Brady's, Manning's, Brees, Roethlisberger's, Rodgers, etc ALL have both attributes locked down, in spades.

Weeden has more of those 2 EXTREMELY important attributes locked down than Landry Jones does, and by quite a margin. Plain and simple. So does Luck and Barkley.

When it comes to ball placement you have to watch the player and study him. Stats be damned. Because a 70% passer can have mediocre ball placement with all his throws while a 60% passer has very good ball placement. So forget going by stats, but really study the quarterbacks (and the offense they're running).

Then, for the next attribute you look for smarts and decision making. Reads. How can he lead an offense, improvising, and reading defenses pre and post snap.

Notice that Henne had poor ball placement and very poor pocket comfortability. He was also quite stupid and couldn't read defenses, he could only play consistently well against man 2 man defenses when it was all dumbed down for him greatly. And this is why it's impossible for Sanchez to ever be a Top 10 QB. He has poor feel in the pocket, and while he does have very good footwork his lack of pocket presence and feel in the pocket cannot be compensated for. Also, Sanchez does not have good ball placement. So he can never possibly be a Top 10 NFL QB by lacking in those 2 VITAL areas, just like Henne will never be that.

One of the reasons why I hated Gabbert as a prospect is his pocket feel/presence totally stinks. And it translated to the next level just as I thought it would. He's just terrified to get hit because he knows his presence stinks and he knows that he has no "feel" back there for the rush. He looks like a deer in headlights with any pressure around him and is just clueless out there. This was all very predictable if you really studied him in college. His lack of pocket presence destroys half of his overall game at the NFL level. And in the NFL, you're going absolutely NOWHERE as a team with that.

What made Marino so great along with all his great talents was his pocket presence. He was routinely the least sacked QB in the NFL year to year. This wasn't as much to do with the offensive line, as he was pressured quite a bit. Marino was one of the least mobile QB's in the NFL every year But Marino was a genius in the pocket and knew the exact moment to side step, step up, make the slightest moves while keeping his eyes downfield on his targets... coupled with his lightning release to get rid of the ball. His pocket presence was 2nd to none. Marino had tremendous FEEL in the pocket and this attribute cannot be understated. It was like Marino was literally born in a pocket behind a line of scrimmage, it was so "natural" for him to be back there it was ridiculous..

I remember when all the Top pass rushers were asked who's the hardest QB to get to or sack. Those pass rushers were the great late Derrick Thomas, Bruce Smith, the reverend and the minister of defense Reggie White, Kevin Greene and Mark Gastineau. And on the panel all but one said Marino. Despite Marino not being fleet of foot (in fact he was slow as a turtle), and not the strongest guy around - he was chosen by 4 of those top 5 pass rushers... i think the 5th guy chose Elway. Pocket presence. Pocket presence. Pocket presence.

Marino wouldn't have been the QB he was if he had Landry Jones' poor pocket presence/feel. Poor pocket presence "IN THE NFL" (as college offenses CAN BE Disguised better to hide it a bit) leads to more broken plays. Leads to more sacks. Leads to more mistakes for the QB and more mistakes for the offense in general. It destroys an offense's rhythm as an offense is based on timing and rhythm (rhythm meaning from play to play on a drive , and KEEPING that rhythm is extremely important)..Also Leads to more punts. And in many cases, turnovers. All this is Exactly what you don't want in your offense. Poor pocket presence leads to so many negative things.

then you look for the more technical things like how is the QB in play action, how's his release, and as CK mentioned and explained quite well in some of his recent posts regarding RGIII - how does he see over the line. Can he scan the field well. Can he look off receivers and do it seamlessly. How is his overall readiness ? How is the footwork (and there's many elements that go into this that I won't go into now). How is he with his 3, 5 and 7 step drops ? Can he pump fake at the perfect moments. How's his delivery motion. Is he the type of QB that can stretch every inch of the field, or not ? Also is the young QB versatile where he can run more than one or 2 offenses... and not just the one he ran in college.

Arm strength is extremely overrated, the most overrated thing to look for. People say that NFL teams love "big arms", that's baloney. Because once a college QB is in the discussion, he has "enough arm". The attributes I mentioned are far more important than a Jamarcus Russell or Jeff George cannon arm. People get blinded by arm strength and simply don't know what to look for when judging QB's coming out of college.

There's more things I can list to explain more., but that's a start.
 
Foles will start emerge over time. Watch his 2010 games.
 
Ball placement and pocket comfortability/presence. (or "FEEL" in the pocket)

Those 2 things you look for 1st and foremost. Look at all the top QB's and they're geniuses with their pocket presence, it's effortless for them, and all have terrific top-caliber ball placement.. The Brady's, Manning's, Brees, Roethlisberger's, Rodgers, etc ALL have both attributes locked down, in spades.

Weeden has more of those 2 EXTREMELY important attributes locked down than Landry Jones does, and by quite a margin. Plain and simple. So does Luck and Barkley.

When it comes to ball placement you have to watch the player and study him. Stats be damned. Because a 70% passer can have mediocre ball placement with all his throws while a 60% passer has very good ball placement. So forget going by stats, but really study the quarterbacks (and the offense they're running).

Then, for the next attribute you look for smarts and decision making. Reads. How can he lead an offense, improvising, and reading defenses pre and post snap.

Notice that Henne had poor ball placement and very poor pocket comfortability. He was also quite stupid and couldn't read defenses, he could only play consistently well against man 2 man defenses when it was all dumbed down for him greatly. And this is why it's impossible for Sanchez to ever be a Top 10 QB. He has poor feel in the pocket, and while he does have very good footwork his lack of pocket presence and feel in the pocket cannot be compensated for. Also, Sanchez does not have good ball placement. So he can never possibly be a Top 10 NFL QB by lacking in those 2 VITAL areas, just like Henne will never be that.

One of the reasons why I hated Gabbert as a prospect is his pocket feel/presence totally stinks. And it translated to the next level just as I thought it would. He's just terrified to get hit because he knows his presence stinks and he knows that he has no "feel" back there for the rush. He looks like a deer in headlights with any pressure around him and is just clueless out there. This was all very predictable if you really studied him in college. His lack of pocket presence destroys half of his overall game at the NFL level. And in the NFL, you're going absolutely NOWHERE as a team with that.

What made Marino so great along with all his great talents was his pocket presence. He was routinely the least sacked QB in the NFL year to year. This wasn't as much to do with the offensive line, as he was pressured quite a bit. Marino was one of the least mobile QB's in the NFL every year But Marino was a genius in the pocket and knew the exact moment to side step, step up, make the slightest moves while keeping his eyes downfield on his targets... coupled with his lightning release to get rid of the ball. His pocket presence was 2nd to none. Marino had tremendous FEEL in the pocket and this attribute cannot be understated. It was like Marino was literally born in a pocket behind a line of scrimmage, it was so "natural" for him to be back there it was ridiculous..

I remember when all the Top pass rushers were asked who's the hardest QB to get to or sack. Those pass rushers were the great late Derrick Thomas, Bruce Smith, the reverend and the minister of defense Reggie White, Kevin Greene and Mark Gastineau. And on the panel all but one said Marino. Despite Marino not being fleet of foot (in fact he was slow as a turtle), and not the strongest guy around - he was chosen by 4 of those top 5 pass rushers... i think the 5th guy chose Elway. Pocket presence. Pocket presence. Pocket presence.

Marino wouldn't have been the QB he was if he had Landry Jones' poor pocket presence/feel. Poor pocket presence "IN THE NFL" (as college offenses CAN BE Disguised better to hide it a bit) leads to more broken plays. Leads to more sacks. Leads to more mistakes for the QB and more mistakes for the offense in general. It destroys an offense's rhythm as an offense is based on timing and rhythm (rhythm meaning from play to play on a drive , and KEEPING that rhythm is extremely important)..Also Leads to more punts. And in many cases, turnovers. All this is Exactly what you don't want in your offense. Poor pocket presence leads to so many negative things.

then you look for the more technical things like how is the QB in play action, how's his release, and as CK mentioned and explained quite well in some of his recent posts regarding RGIII - how does he see over the line. Can he scan the field well. Can he look off receivers and do it seamlessly. How is his overall readiness ? How is the footwork (and there's many elements that go into this that I won't go into now). How is he with his 3, 5 and 7 step drops ? Can he pump fake at the perfect moments. How's his delivery motion. Is he the type of QB that can stretch every inch of the field, or not ? Also is the young QB versatile where he can run more than one or 2 offenses... and not just the one he ran in college.

Arm strength is extremely overrated, the most overrated thing to look for. People say that NFL teams love "big arms", that's baloney. Because once a college QB is in the discussion, he has "enough arm". The attributes I mentioned are far more important than a Jamarcus Russell or Jeff George cannon arm. People get blinded by arm strength and simply don't know what to look for when judging QB's coming out of college.

There's more things I can list to explain more., but that's a start.

To begin with Greyboy, I respect your opinions, I usually find myself agreeing with them, and I usually enjoy your posts. This one- not so much, although I do agree that Brandon Weeden is far superior to Landry Jones as a pro prospect- it's not even close. A lot of your points regarding footwork, pocket presence- spot on. But- the issue of arm strength...

What are the chances that Jeff George or Jamarcus Russell would have been #1 overall picks if they didn't have tremendous arms? Slim and none- or to be even more specific, none. Who is the last #1 overall QB pick who didn't have a big arm? Who is the last top 5 QB selection who didn't have a big arm? Top 10?

Some of these points seem to develop a life of their own and become repetetive, ie Barkley's arm is reminiscient of Drew Brees- I don't get this one at all, I see very little simlarities in their throwing motions. And yet out of the blue people spout off on this. Coincidence? I think not.

And this one-arm strength is way overrated? This one is a headscratcher. What's next, elusiveness isn't an important trait in a RB? How about running with power? Maybe I overrated Rashard Mendenhall coming out of Illinois, because these traits are just overrated...

The clearest example I can think of counter to your point that "once a college QB is in the discussion, he has enough arm"- is Josh Heupel. I saw this guy throw live at training camp- after one throw I found myself looking to my left and right for other fans' reactions. After a couple of throws I wanted to laugh, not to be mean or callous regarding Heupel, but it was just more proof as to how stupid Dave Wannestedt was. I mean, this guy Heupel CLEARLY didn't have the arm for playing in the NFL. Heupel was known for being a heady QB. He led Oklahoma to a national championship. He's listed at 6-2, 215 lbs. And yet he lasted until the 6th round and was quickly blown out of the NFL. Why? He had a weak arm- good enough obviously to succeed in college, but absolute crap for the NFL. He was a waste of a 6th rd pick. NFL scouts WANT to see big arms- and this guy was a straight up boner of a pick, even in the 6th rd. Dude could not play.

First round QBs obvioulsy don't always pan out- look at JP Losman, Jim Druckenmiller, take your pick. Losman can absolutely rip it- Druckenmiller had a huge arm. Two examples of many. They might not pan out, but the 1st round is generally reserved for good sized QB's with big arms. Average arms last longer- can you think of why Joe Montana lasted until the final pick of the 3rd round in the 1979 draft?

"Despite his performance on the field, Montana was not rated highly by most scouts. At one combine, Montana rated out as six-and-a-half overall with a six in arm strength, used to judge how hard and how far a prospect could throw the ball. By comparison, Jack Thompson of Washington State University rated an eight, the highest grade among eligible quarterbacks.[SUP][11]
[/SUP]
In the 1979 NFL Draft, the San Francisco 49ers selected Montana in the third round with the 82nd overall pick."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Montana

To paraphrase Lou Holtz- the race doesn't always go to the swift and the strong, but that's how I'm betting. Why do NFL scouts value strong arms? The answer is simple- because they give Quarterbacks a competetvie advantage.
 
For the second time in the same thread. Weeden does remind me somewhat of Joe Montana. I'm not saying he will be Montana or could even hold his jockstrap, but there are definitely some similarities.
 
After seeing both play, my humble, non-expert opinion is that the major downside to Weedon is his age. With Jones, it's skill. I will take the age downside over skill any day. I honestly have no idea why draftniks keep slurping Jones. Strong arm? Big deal. The guy makes horrible decisions, stares down receivers, and isn't incredibly accurate. He honestly reminds me of Chad Henne. Also, I don't think the guy has thrown a TD in 2 games. I just don't understand the infatuation. I swear, if Barkley is off the board and the Phins take this guy just to take someone in the 1st round, I will lose it.
 
After seeing both play, my humble, non-expert opinion is that the major downside to Weedon is his age. With Jones, it's skill. I will take the age downside over skill any day. I honestly have no idea why draftniks keep slurping Jones. Strong arm? Big deal. The guy makes horrible decisions, stares down receivers, and isn't incredibly accurate. He honestly reminds me of Chad Henne. Also, I don't think the guy has thrown a TD in 2 games. I just don't understand the infatuation. I swear, if Barkley is off the board and the Phins take this guy just to take someone in the 1st round, I will lose it.


Okay, so one thing to keep in mind.

Jones has lost his All american receiver AND top two running backs for the season. That is a large part of why he hasn't been as successful the last couple of weeks...that being said, I still take Weeden over Jones any day all day!!!
 
over under on late throws/throws into coverage jones makes tonight??? i'm setting the bar at 4.5...i'll take the over...kids late all the time...and he will force the ball into coverage
 
For the second time in the same thread. Weeden does remind me somewhat of Joe Montana. I'm not saying he will be Montana or could even hold his jockstrap, but there are definitely some similarities.

I honestly don't get that comparison.
 
This is going to be a great game. Last year that Oklahoma defense really forced Weeden into a bad game, one of the few bad games I saw him play all year last year.

People think Iowa State was a bad game for Weeden. It wasn't. I reviewed that game pretty thoroughly. The whole "Weeden got exposed for not being able to throw if forced to move his feet" criticism is like the Pabst Blue Ribbon hipster favorite right now, but it has very little substance to it. I tracked 18 throws that Brandon Weeden threw that were not caught, two of them called back on penalty.

Do you know how many of those incomplete passes were pressured throws? Only three. One he threw away with four defenders in his face (literally, four). Another was his first interception of the game, which he earned by falling off the throw and thinking his arm alone would somehow magically put the ball into a super tight window. That's an over-confidence interception and it happens. In fact, it SHOULD happen to quarterbacks, and if I never see it happen, it's more of a red flag to me than it is when I do see it happen. The final pressured incomplete pass was one where he stepped up and out and worked the pocket beautifully to try and get his throwing lane so he could throw underneath to the perimeter, but the defensive end did a great job retracing and stabbing his arm out to hit the ball. That wasn't an accuracy or feet issue, it was a defensive end making a good play.

Otherwise I found several plays where he either did feel pressure, or the play call asked him to move his feet, and he completed the pass, or the ball was dropped. For instance he gets on a roll to his right side, throws the ball on the run, a bullet that goes no less than 41 yards through the air and hits Josh Cooper right in the diaphragm in a small window in tight man coverage...and Cooper juggles the ball going out of bounds. For a guy that supposedly can't throw when he has to move his feet, that sure was a pretty incredible throw.

The most remarkable aspect of that game was how people watching the game could let their ears cancel out their eyes. The announcer for that game was talking out of his anus all night, incorrectly diagnosing plays all over the place not just on the Oklahoma State offense but on the Iowa State offense as well. He's the one that kept bringing up over and over again about forcing Weeden to move his feet. Perfect example is a 3rd & 6 where Weeden was not pressured at all, but he had already had two tipped passes at the line, one that turned into an interception, so understandably he took the reminder to make sure to work your passing lanes from the back of the pocket. So he does, and he does it ideally. If you're trying to hit a tailback that leaks out to the middle on a delay, you need to create your own passing lane because he's sitting right behind where the linemen are. So that's what Weeden does, he shuffles from the back of the pocket and creates his passing lane so he can check it down on the delay to a guy who didn't have a defender within 10 yards of him. As Weeden is stepping left, he throws the ball. The tailback had leaked up the field and to his right, and he should have kept running right to run through the catch. Weeden led him on the front shoulder. But what does Jeremy Smith do? Freezes instead of running through, reaches out with his hands to the front shoulder, gets the ball right in cradle of his two hands, and drops it. What does the announcer do? He crows about how the defense forced Weeden to move his feet and so "Weeden missed him!". My favorite tweet right after the play was from a friend, who isn't a big Weeden fan and doesn't think he's the answer for the Dolphins, and said "If by 'missed him' you mean hit him right on target in the hands, yeah he missed him". But what do people do? They let their ears cancel out their eyes.

What happened in that game was pretty much a perfect storm of chicanery from an excellent defensive football team that found the extra possessions on offense to keep up with Oklahoma State until one more costly mistake ended the game. You have two fumbles from Joseph Randle. You have two interceptions that resulted from defensive linemen tipping the ball at the line. You have a surprise onside kick recovery. You have dropped 3rd down passes. You've got a 4th & 2 play call from Todd Monken that quite literally gave Brandon Weeden only one valid throw option, that being a 48 yard throw to the wide side of the field to a receiver running a deep fade against single coverage. These things are how you lose football games.

I have so much respect for the guys running the Iowa State defense after breaking down that game. You have some smart, athletic defenders on that defense. Everyone talks about corner Leonard Johnson, and he did do a pretty good job on Justin Blackmon, but upon review the linebackers A.J. Klein and Jake Knott had more effect on this game, as did safety Jacques Washington who forced a fumble AND came up with a pick.

A.J. Klein was perfect hell on the Oklahoma State ground game, and did really well against the pass as well. Here's a great example. Oklahoma State is trying to run a read-draw. They've got a 3 by 1 setup with 3 receivers strung out on the left and 1 receiver on the right. But the key is Josh Cooper lined up as the inner most slot receiver, and Joseph Randle is lined up in the backfield even with Brandon Weeden to his right, opposite side from where Cooper is. This is a play where Weeden has to read the strong side linebacker and if he backs up to cover Cooper then he hands the ball to Randle on the draw play. If the linebacker crashes down, he throws the slant to Cooper. A.J. Klein KNEW this play was coming, because he studied the film and knew what the 3x1 with Cooper and Randle set up for a triangle read on the Sam meant. He didn't back pedal, OR crash down. He stayed patient and rocked slightly backward to make Weeden respect the coverage and give the ball to Randle on the draw, and then Klein snapped forward and crashed the lane as quickly as he could.

On another 3rd & 3 play, I think Todd Monken kind of recognized that Iowa State sees those read-draws coming so he starts calling more assertive run plays. This one was a run out of Oklahoma State's favored diamond formation, with two upbacks split to each side of Weeden and a tailback behind him. They run the ball to the left and Oklahoma State does a perfect job getting a hat on a hat all the way around. Joseph Randle has a clean hole and the only unblocked man is Klein, coming from the back side of the play. In these situations, you get a hat on a hat and then it's up to the runner to make the last guy miss. Klein scrapes through the trash and pounds Randle to the ground 1 yard short of converting the 1st down.

I'll give you another example of Klein's film study making a difference in the game. Klein once again has used his film study to recognize that given the defensive look, Brandon Weeden is going to want the weak side slant in single coverage. Prior to the snap, in order to bait Brandon into this, Klein begins cheating to the strong side, letting Brandon see him. Then right at the snap, like a whip crack, he bolts back over to the left side to play robber on the slant pattern. Lucky for Brandon Weeden that Klein overran the passing lane a little, because that could have been an earned interception. Klein does overrun it a little though and Weeden throws it into the open window, but Klein did a fantastic job athletically stabbing his back hand into the lane and knocking down the ball. Ball goes incomplete.

And on the final interception of the day, you have to look at what Jake Knott did on this play. I see what Weeden was reading and he had the right read all the way. They got Justin Blackmon matched up on the interior on a dig route with linebacker Jake Knott in man coverage, with his back turned to Brandon Weeden. Weeden sees this and thinks, there's not a linebacker in college football that can turn his back on me and cover Justin Blackmon in man as he crosses the middle, especially since I'm about to throw this ball perfectly. But I will be god damned if Jake Knott, who is an excellent coverage linebacker and WILL play in the NFL, didn't have the tightest damned coverage that I can even imagine a linebacker keeping on a guy with Justin Blackmon's skill. Even so, Weeden threw the ball perfectly. When the ball came out of his hands it was a tight spiral and was on it's way to the right spot in an extremely tight window. But a defensive lineman did a great job getting his hands up just in time to scrape the ball with a finger. Weeden throws the ball so hard it didn't even affect the ball's trajectory, but it did cause the ball to wobble more instead of having that tight spiral, and it slowed the pass down just enough for Jake Knott to close the tight window, get his hand up and affect the ball so that it got tipped in the air for an interception.

There's a saying that Rob Rang used recently. He was describing one of Weeden's passes during the game, and he said this throw best exemplifies the old adage that a great throw beats great coverage. There were two throws in the game that exemplified that best. But either way the point of the saying is that sometimes you do everything right and the other guy just does such a good job that there's not much you could have done. In this game, Oklahoma State's offense made several plays that way, but Iowa State's defense also made several plays that way, where the quarterback and receivers did everything right, but great awareness from the defensive players just trumped it. It was a great game.

Iowa State's defense made Landry Jones look much worse the following week.
 
Jones is better prospect than Weeden.
 
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