Jones vs. Weeden...let our debates commence | Page 8 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Jones vs. Weeden...let our debates commence

ckparrothead said:
Never let extraneous non-football factors get in the way of football evaluation, because in the end it's all about getting the best football player onto the field.

What you're describing is an extraneous non-football factor. Who cares how old Weeden is in relation to how old Moore is? The better player will play, and based on my evaluations of Weeden, I'm pretty sure he is the better player.

Football isn't a paint-by-numbers picture. It's not a place setting at a $2,000 a plate dinner, where you whip out the ruler and make sure the napkin is so many inches from the wine glass and at such a degree angle to the dinner fork, etc. You don't forego talent in order to make sure you've got two 21 to 25 year olds and a 28 to 30 year old on the roster at a position at any given time. If that's what you think is going to win your football games, I say good luck with that.

There's only one question you should be asking yourself when it comes to whether or not to add Brandon Weeden. That question is, is he the best quarterback I can realistically get? If you can legitimately get hold of Andrew Luck or Matt Barkley, then the answer to that question is no. If you believed Matt Moore to be a better football player then the answer would also be no, because you would already have the best quarterback that you can realistically get.

But I think Brandon Weeden is better than Matt Moore all day, every day, probably even better than him as early as 2012. So who gives a flying sh-t how the ages match up?
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Him being 28 is not extraneous...it makes him undesirable to attempt to develop at the NFL level.
 
Hayden Fox said:
Him being 28 is not extraneous...it makes him undesirable to attempt to develop at the NFL level.
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COnsider the case of Roger Staubach:



153-109
22,700
83.4
Career history Career highlights and awards TDs - INT
Yards QB Rating
Stats at NFL.com Pro Football Hall of Fame College Football Hall of Fame


Yes age is an issue, but I'd rather focus on Weeden's talent and potential. If he were to play until he's 36 that gives him 8 solid years. And 36 really isn't all that old for a QB, especially these days. 40 is the new 35.
 
jim1 said:
COnsider the case of Roger Staubach:


153-109
22,700
83.4



Yes age is an issue, but I'd rather focus on Weeden's talent and potential. If he were to play until he's 36 that gives him 8 solid years. And 36 really isn't all that old for a QB, especially these days. 40 is the new 35.
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Weeden is the next Roger Staubach now? Lets talk Tannehill, Foles and Cousins.
 
About Brandon Weeden's age, you have to break it down two ways. The first is the issue of longevity. You have to remember that the very first reason even a 29 year old quarterback ends up not playing very many games is not because of age but because of SKILL. If you're not good, you're not going to stay on the field. Success will be fleeting, and teams will get tired of waiting for you to recreate any success you had, or if you didn't have any to begin with them you're probably on a short leash and cycled right out of town.

So you have to start with the quarterbacks that were GOOD, and didn't really get their career going until their late 20's, and see how long they played. I look at guys that have completed over 1000 passes in their career, didn't get their starting careers really up and running until their late 20's, and have been to at least one Pro Bowl.

Quarterback - Age Started - # of Games - # of Pro Bowls
Warren Moon - Age 28 - 203 Starts - 9 Pro Bowls
Len Dawson - Age 27 - 157 Starts - 7 Pro Bowls
Steve Young - Age 30 - 114 Starts - 7 Pro Bowls
Roger Staubach - Age 29 - 110 Starts - 6 Pro Bowls
Daryle Lamonica - Age 26 - 84 Starts - 5 Pro Bowls
Sonny Jurgenson - Age 27 - 144 Starts - 5 Pro Bowls
Jim Kelly - Age 26 - 160 Starts - 5 Pro Bowls
Jeff Garcia - Age 29 - 116 Starts - 4 Pro Bowls
Kenny Stabler - Age 28 - 144 Starts - 4 Pro Bowls
Kurt Warner - Age 28 - 116 Starts - 4 Pro Bowls
Trent Green - Age 28 - 113 Starts - 2 Pro Bowls
Brad Johnson - Age 28 - 125 Starts - 2 Pro Bowls
Joe Theismann - Age 27 - 124 Starts - 2 Pro Bowls
Charlie Conerly - Age 27 - 107 Starts - 2 Pro Bowls
Mark Rypien - Age 26 - 78 Starts - 2 Pro Bowls
Jeff Hostetler - Age 30 - 79 Starts - 1 Pro Bowl
Jake Delhomme - Age 28 - 96 Starts - 1 Pro Bowl
Billy Kilmer - Age 28 - 114 Starts - 1 Pro Bowl
Danny White - Age 28 - 95 Starts - 1 Pro Bowl
Bill Kenney - Age 26 - 74 Starts - 1 Pro Bowl
Ron Jaworski - Age 26 - 140 Starts - 1 Pro Bowl

The average age involved here is 28 years old. The average number of starts involved is 119, which is between 7 and 8 full seasons which I call at about 8 seasons given some seasons you don't always play every single game. The average number of Pro Bowls is right between 3 and 4 Pro Bowls. This study frames what you can expect from Brandon Weeden's career, IF HE IS GOOD. What you have is proof that just because you got started in your late 20's, doesn't mean you can't make a big time contribution. You've got Hall of Famers on that list, guys that went to tons of Pro Bowls, Super Bowl champs, etc.

From there, I know some of you are going to say yeah but a lot of those guys were training in the NFL before they got those starts and so they could succeed right away. To that I reply 1) If you track all their careers, that's not necessarily the case, as many of them had a discernible learning curve, and 2) Look at the following second study.

This second study looks at guys that were drafted between 2001 and 2009 at the quarterback position, and played significantly in their rookie years (and 2nd years, and thereafter). What I tracked is their passer ratings as rookie passers, as well as their passer ratings as 2nd year players, as well as passer ratings in their full career.

Player - 1st Yr Rating - 2nd Yr Rating - Career Rating
Michael Vick - 62.7 - 81.6 - 80.1
David Carr - 62.8 - 69.5 - 74.9
Joey Harrington - 59.9 - 63.9 - 69.4
Patrick Ramsey - 71.8 - 75.8 - 74.9
Byron Leftwich - 73.0 - 82.2 - 79.7
Rex Grossman - 74.8 - 67.9 - 70.9
Kyle Boller - 62.4 - 70.9 - 69.5
Ben Roethlisberger - 98.1 - 98.6 - 92.6
Eli Manning - 55.4 - 75.9 - 82.1
Alex Smith - 40.8 - 74.8 - 76.1
Jason Campbell - 76.5 - 77.6 - 82.8
Kyle Orton - 59.7 - 73.9 - 79.3
Vince Young - 66.7 - 71.1 - 74.4
Matt Leinart - 74.0 - 61.9 - 71.6
Jay Cutler - 88.5 - 88.1 - 84.5
Tarvaris Jackson - 62.5 - 70.8 - 76.4
Trent Edwards - 70.4 - 85.4 - 75.4
Matt Ryan - 87.7 - 80.9 - 86.5
Joe Flacco - 80.3 - 88.9 - 85.6
Matt Stafford - 61.0 - 91.3 - 79.4
Mark Sanchez - 63.0 - 75.3 - 73.6
Josh Freeman - 59.9 - 95.9 - 79.5
Sam Bradford - 76.5 - 72.3 - 75.0
Tim Tebow - 82.1 - 87.9 - 85.9
Colt McCoy - 74.5 - 76.9 - 76.1
Average - 69.8 - 78.3 - 78.2

What you see there is that the NFL's learning curve has now shortened considerably compared with what everyone SAYS it is. But when people say that they're not basing it on anything concrete. The average passer rating in these players' 2nd years is actually slightly higher than their average career passer ratings. You have guys like Ben Roethlisberger that had better passer ratings as a rookie and 2nd year guy than he has in his time since then. Further, if you look at the 8 guys that are generally accepted to be franchise starters that people feel good about, about half of them made big impacts as rookies. You're also seeing that right now with guys like Cam Newton and Andy Dalton, and by season's end maybe even Christian Ponder and maybe even T.J. Yates. These guys are making big impacts as rookies.

So if you're looking at the 8 season average that you can expect a Brandon Weeden to play if he's a good player, you're not really shaving a season off that and chalking it up to a bad rookie year, because the chances are actually quite good (based on his skill set and maturity level) that he's going to be one of those guys that is able to impact right away. Andy Dalton, Cam Newton and Joe Flacco did not come from pro style offenses, or from anywhere that is NFL translatable. Heck, Joe Flacco played in a non-pro style system in the FCS not the FBS. If they can impact right away, so can Brandon Weeden.

So some people can keep just saying the line over and over again that a 28 year old isn't worth investing in, but they're doing very, very little to actually demonstrate that, whereas NFL history itself has gone a very long way to demonstrate that indeed a 28 year old highly talented passer prospect is worth investing in.
 
ckparrothead said:
About Brandon Weeden's age, you have to break it down two ways. The first is the issue of longevity. You have to remember that the very first reason even a 29 year old quarterback ends up not playing very many games is not because of age but because of SKILL. If you're not good, you're not going to stay on the field. Success will be fleeting, and teams will get tired of waiting for you to recreate any success you had, or if you didn't have any to begin with them you're probably on a short leash and cycled right out of town.

So you have to start with the quarterbacks that were GOOD, and didn't really get their career going until their late 20's, and see how long they played. I look at guys that have completed over 1000 passes in their career, didn't get their starting careers really up and running until their late 20's, and have been to at least one Pro Bowl.

Quarterback - Age Started - # of Games - # of Pro Bowls
Warren Moon - Age 28 - 203 Starts - 9 Pro Bowls
Len Dawson - Age 27 - 157 Starts - 7 Pro Bowls
Steve Young - Age 30 - 114 Starts - 7 Pro Bowls
Roger Staubach - Age 29 - 110 Starts - 6 Pro Bowls
Daryle Lamonica - Age 26 - 84 Starts - 5 Pro Bowls
Sonny Jurgenson - Age 27 - 144 Starts - 5 Pro Bowls
Jim Kelly - Age 26 - 160 Starts - 5 Pro Bowls
Jeff Garcia - Age 29 - 116 Starts - 4 Pro Bowls
Kenny Stabler - Age 28 - 144 Starts - 4 Pro Bowls
Kurt Warner - Age 28 - 116 Starts - 4 Pro Bowls
Trent Green - Age 28 - 113 Starts - 2 Pro Bowls
Brad Johnson - Age 28 - 125 Starts - 2 Pro Bowls
Joe Theismann - Age 27 - 124 Starts - 2 Pro Bowls
Charlie Conerly - Age 27 - 107 Starts - 2 Pro Bowls
Mark Rypien - Age 26 - 78 Starts - 2 Pro Bowls
Jeff Hostetler - Age 30 - 79 Starts - 1 Pro Bowl
Jake Delhomme - Age 28 - 96 Starts - 1 Pro Bowl
Billy Kilmer - Age 28 - 114 Starts - 1 Pro Bowl
Danny White - Age 28 - 95 Starts - 1 Pro Bowl
Bill Kenney - Age 26 - 74 Starts - 1 Pro Bowl
Ron Jaworski - Age 26 - 140 Starts - 1 Pro Bowl

The average age involved here is 28 years old. The average number of starts involved is 119, which is between 7 and 8 full seasons which I call at about 8 seasons given some seasons you don't always play every single game. The average number of Pro Bowls is right between 3 and 4 Pro Bowls. This study frames what you can expect from Brandon Weeden's career, IF HE IS GOOD. What you have is proof that just because you got started in your late 20's, doesn't mean you can't make a big time contribution. You've got Hall of Famers on that list, guys that went to tons of Pro Bowls, Super Bowl champs, etc.

From there, I know some of you are going to say yeah but a lot of those guys were training in the NFL before they got those starts and so they could succeed right away. To that I reply 1) If you track all their careers, that's not necessarily the case, as many of them had a discernible learning curve, and 2) Look at the following second study.

This second study looks at guys that were drafted between 2001 and 2009 at the quarterback position, and played significantly in their rookie years (and 2nd years, and thereafter). What I tracked is their passer ratings as rookie passers, as well as their passer ratings as 2nd year players, as well as passer ratings in their full career.

Player - 1st Yr Rating - 2nd Yr Rating - Career Rating
Michael Vick - 62.7 - 81.6 - 80.1
David Carr - 62.8 - 69.5 - 74.9
Joey Harrington - 59.9 - 63.9 - 69.4
Patrick Ramsey - 71.8 - 75.8 - 74.9
Byron Leftwich - 73.0 - 82.2 - 79.7
Rex Grossman - 74.8 - 67.9 - 70.9
Kyle Boller - 62.4 - 70.9 - 69.5
Ben Roethlisberger - 98.1 - 98.6 - 92.6
Eli Manning - 55.4 - 75.9 - 82.1
Alex Smith - 40.8 - 74.8 - 76.1
Jason Campbell - 76.5 - 77.6 - 82.8
Kyle Orton - 59.7 - 73.9 - 79.3
Vince Young - 66.7 - 71.1 - 74.4
Matt Leinart - 74.0 - 61.9 - 71.6
Jay Cutler - 88.5 - 88.1 - 84.5
Tarvaris Jackson - 62.5 - 70.8 - 76.4
Trent Edwards - 70.4 - 85.4 - 75.4
Matt Ryan - 87.7 - 80.9 - 86.5
Joe Flacco - 80.3 - 88.9 - 85.6
Matt Stafford - 61.0 - 91.3 - 79.4
Mark Sanchez - 63.0 - 75.3 - 73.6
Josh Freeman - 59.9 - 95.9 - 79.5
Sam Bradford - 76.5 - 72.3 - 75.0
Tim Tebow - 82.1 - 87.9 - 85.9
Colt McCoy - 74.5 - 76.9 - 76.1
Average - 69.8 - 78.3 - 78.2

What you see there is that the NFL's learning curve has now shortened considerably compared with what everyone SAYS it is. But when people say that they're not basing it on anything concrete. The average passer rating in these players' 2nd years is actually slightly higher than their average career passer ratings. You have guys like Ben Roethlisberger that had better passer ratings as a rookie and 2nd year guy than he has in his time since then. Further, if you look at the 8 guys that are generally accepted to be franchise starters that people feel good about, about half of them made big impacts as rookies. You're also seeing that right now with guys like Cam Newton and Andy Dalton, and by season's end maybe even Christian Ponder and maybe even T.J. Yates. These guys are making big impacts as rookies.

So if you're looking at the 8 season average that you can expect a Brandon Weeden to play if he's a good player, you're not really shaving a season off that and chalking it up to a bad rookie year, because the chances are actually quite good (based on his skill set and maturity level) that he's going to be one of those guys that is able to impact right away. Andy Dalton, Cam Newton and Joe Flacco did not come from pro style offenses, or from anywhere that is NFL translatable. Heck, Joe Flacco played in a non-pro style system in the FCS not the FBS. If they can impact right away, so can Brandon Weeden.

So some people can keep just saying the line over and over again that a 28 year old isn't worth investing in, but they're doing very, very little to actually demonstrate that, whereas NFL history itself has gone a very long way to demonstrate that indeed a 28 year old highly talented passer prospect is worth investing in.
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Fantastic post. Interesting point about the 2nd year prowess of QBs- if I recall correctly Dan Marino went off in 1984, his second year. I think that's the year I was in the Orange Bowl for the AFC championship game against the Steelers- Marino was insanely good. Come to think of it I think that was the year I saw an awesome game in the Orange Bowl against the Raiders- Matt Millen, Lyle Alzado, Howie Long, etc on defense. Marcus Allen ripped a long run at the end to put the game away. Faint memories of Bob Brudzinksi, not sure. Anyway there was only one thing more impressive than that vintage year 2 1984 Dan Marino and Clayton/Duper go at it- Lester Hayes and Mike Haynes. Lester was his usual molester self, awesome. Haynes was simply unbelieveable. I never saw a corner play a receiver as fast as Duper like that- he trailed him the whole game, kept himself between marino and Duper. Un freaking believeable. Haynes and Deion were probably the two best CBs I've ever seen, Hayes is up there. But anyway- Marino was killer in his second year.
 
Good info CK. I'm trying to look at this from the Dolphins perspective which is why I said Moore at a younger age precludes us from drafting Weeden. My fear is that they'll think Moore "is good enough" to win with.

As for Flacco he did spend two years at Pitt working in a pro style offense with Dave Wannstedt before being passed over for Tyler Palko and then transferring to Delaware. So even though he spent 3 years at Delaware the pro set wasn't completely foreign to him.

All of this would also depend if Ireland or whoever is GM feels Weeden is better than Moore right now, if they don't view him that way I would have a hard time thinking they would draft him just to sit him for a year or two given his 8 season window. I think if you're going to draft Weeden you have to draft him with the intention to start him day 1.
 
If we can't get Luck, Barkley, or RG3, I say pass on Weeden and Jones, and take the BPA, rather than forcing us to take another very average non-franchise QB like we have done with Beck, White, et al. I do think getting a franchise QB is our top priority but if we finish with say a 6-10 record and are picking around #12-#15 in the NFL draft we probably would be better off taking the BPA, and sticking with Matt Moore in 2012.

Even if we draft a QB, Matt Moore is most likely going to be our starter next season. I'd rather use a first rounder on a top O-lineman (Jonathan Martin), RB (Trent Richardson), CB (Dre Kirkpatrick, Morris Claiborne)...than reach for a QB in round one if Luck, Barkley and RG3 are gone. Tannehill, Foles and Cousins all could be better than Jones and Weeden, so why reach????
 
datruth55 said:
Good info CK. I'm trying to look at this from the Dolphins perspective which is why I said Moore at a younger age precludes us from drafting Weeden. My fear is that they'll think Moore "is good enough" to win with.

As for Flacco he did spend two years at Pitt working in a pro style offense with Dave Wannstedt before being passed over for Tyler Palko and then transferring to Delaware. So even though he spent 3 years at Delaware the pro set wasn't completely foreign to him.

All of this would also depend if Ireland or whoever is GM feels Weeden is better than Moore right now, if they don't view him that way I would have a hard time thinking they would draft him just to sit him for a year or two given his 8 season window. I think if you're going to draft Weeden you have to draft him with the intention to start him day 1.
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Even if Weeden sat the first year he still could have a solid 7-8 year career. Assuming that his shoulder is ok, he hasn't been beaten on much for the last decade. Weeden would make, at worst, one heck of an insurance policy. It wouldn't surprise me if Jerry Jones is looking long and hard at Weeden as per next year's draft as a backup to Romo, and as plan B in case Romo's late season/post season foibles continue.
 
jim1 said:
Even if Weeden sat the first year he still could have a solid 7-8 year career. Assuming that his shoulder is ok, he hasn't been beaten on much for the last decade. Weeden would make, at worst, one heck of an insurance policy. It wouldn't surprise me if Jerry Jones is looking long and hard at Weeden as per next year's draft as a backup to Romo, and as plan B in case Romo's late season/post season foibles continue.
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IF he fell to Jerra in a later round, then perhaps, BUT, Dallas already has a very very promising looking prospect in Stephen McGee. Remember, all he did to the Phins last year in Pre-season was COMPLETELY light up our starting Defense....a defense that turned out to be pretty damn good I might hadd.
 
b/t all you guys talkin like you knew tim tebow would be this big huge success in the pros i wouldn't go bronzing my statue on it yet if i were you...i wanna see this kid show it next season after teams have an offseason to get ready for his game...if it continues like its going right now then i have to say i was wrong cause i flat out said there's no way that kid will make it at qb in the nfl...i have to admit one thing though tebow is way more elusive at this level in the backfield etc then i ever thought he'd be...i thought this kid would get run down like a tortoise against nfl speed and athleticism...and of that i was definitely wrong...but i'm also a non believer that this kids gonna become a 60 percent passer at any point so at some point imo that will catch up with him...

but heck i also find myself rooting for the kid at this point for this season anyways...he's defying all the odds nfl wise i can tell ya that...has nfl people around the league just shaking their heads over his success
 
hooshoops said:
i flat out said there's no way that kid will make it at qb in the nfl...i have to admit one thing though tebow is way more elusive at this level in the backfield etc then i ever thought he'd be...i thought this kid would get run down like a tortoise against nfl speed and athleticism...and of that i was definitely wrong...but i'm also a non believer that this kids gonna become a 60 percent passer at any point so at some point imo that will catch up with him...


but heck i also find myself rooting for the kid at this point for this season anyways...he's defying all the odds nfl wise i can tell ya that...has nfl people around the league just shaking their heads over his success
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say what you want about Tebow, but he has elite level pocket presence/comfortability and feel "for a rookie QB". I was like WOW when I saw Tebow making some INCREDIBLE reads in the pocket before they even developed for a normal or even a good pocket QB to see. His ball placement totally sucks half of the time, but damn it in the 4th quarters he can bring it (that Denver offense was in a very nice rhythm in 4th quarters in the 4 games I saw). but the one common thing with him is his tremendous pocket feel.

If he was Blaine Gabbert like in the pocket he'd never see a down in the NFL. As good as he is running with the ball and all that, he's still excellent in the pocket "as a QB", and he'd never come close to what he's doing unless he was so good in the pocket. Being so damn good in the pocket "enables" him to keep winning these games for his team, it all starts right after the snap in that pocket. Without that one VITAL attribute every.single.elite QB MUST have he'd be toast.

Feel/awareness/comfortability in the pocket goes a long long way, even when you're deficient in many other areas like a Tim Tebow. That's why Pocket comfortability and ball placement are automatically 50% of my total grade on a QB (as I've been mentioning in other threads). There's a ton of other attributes to look for in a QB, but all those other ones make up a much smaller percentage than those two extremely essential elements to look for in a QB.

With accuracy and delivery motion being relatively equal... Give me a QB with superb pocket feel as well as great intelligence for the game , and good "readiness" with an average arm... and I take him WAY over a QB with a lightning quick release (with that same delivery), super strong arm, super play action fakes, excellent dropbacks, slightly better footwork, and he could even be a little more accurate (and you can add another physical attribute or two in there)- but with just average intelligence , less overall readiness, and poor pocket feel.

BY FAR the #1 most underrated attribute casual fans (and even serious football fans) look for in QB's is overall "feel" in the pocket.

Offenses are based on timing and rhythm from play to play, and of course "within" and during plays. A QB with very poor pocket awareness and feel in there destroys that. It leads to more mistakes for the offense in general. The offense looks discombobulated no matter how talented the QB is in some other areas. Things get disjointed quickly. The offense looks like 11 chickens with their heads cut off half the time. Leads to More punts, more batted balls, more sacks, more turnovers. It shortens plays instead of extending them. Shortens routes. It shortens the playbook. It shortens drives. It hurts the confidence of the other 10 offensive teammates as the flow/rhythm of the offense keeps getting disrupted when least expected. Then "Trust" is lost in the offense among the players, and that leads to other issues. Without having good feel back there a QB automatically misjudges passing lanes. Without having good natural "feel in the pocket the QB then focuses his attention on the pocket too much instead of focusing and keeping his eyes downfield, and that leads to other problems exacerbating the issue. Believe it or not it has a habit of causing more penalties (whereas a QB with elite pocket feel causes more penalties against the defense). more negative plays, more mistakes. You just don't want it on your team.

I remember an interview with Ross's henchman Carl Peterson about 10 years ago. Peterson was talking about some of the great QB's in the league and the best the league has ever seen. When he got on the subject of Marino, he said what scared his Chiefs and Derrick Thomas and their defense the most wasn't Marino's ridiculous arm, it wasn't his lightning release, or his accuracy. It was how deadly and fantastic he was in the pocket for a slow guy. Marino's feel in that pocket, and how he was a genius in there for such an immobile guy. That's what he said made Marino so hard to prepare for. And I will always remember him saying that speaking to coaches around the league, it was BY FAR the most underrated aspect of Marino's game. And what made him so hard for teams to defend.
 
Where is his commitment level when he elected to play baseball as opposed to football.

I love how guys use QB examples of eventual great ones as opposed to ****ty QB's that played baseball first such as Chad Hutchinson and Drew Henson.

Weeden I think looks really average versus good defenses. Were you wowed on Saturday vs. Oklahoma?
 
i'm not sure i agree that tebow has great pocket presence per say...what i think he has in spades is an innate feel for the rush...kids got eyes in the back of his head
 
Hayden Fox said:
Where is his commitment level when he elected to play baseball as opposed to football.

I love how guys use QB examples of eventual great ones as opposed to ****ty QB's that played baseball first such as Chad Hutchinson and Drew Henson.

Weeden I think looks really average versus good defenses. Were you wowed on Saturday vs. Oklahoma?
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Hayden, I respect your opinion. However, I watched the game expecting to see Landry Jones light it up and concluded that Weeden looked very good and warrants serious analysis. Yes, he's 28 and a former baseballer, but he looked very accurate, he displayed poise and he looked like he knew what he was doing totally demolishing a "good" Oklahoma team. Whether he can take his game to the next level is the big question. Years ago Weinke looked pretty good taking FSU all the way, but totally fizzled as a pro for the Panthers.
Most teams will be wary of taking a 28 year old and so his stock is immediately discounted, like a chicken getting closer to the expiry date. If he's first round talent set to be drafted in the second or third round, that just means that we get the chance for a BPA (hopefully not another Offensive Lineman) in the first round.
And just maybe Weeden learned something "riding the pine" in baseball, and he has been given another chance. Occasionally, a player has his dreams taken away and then is given a second chance and makes the best of it.
Let the experts like CK and co analyze the hell out of Weeden, and if he still looks good, we should not be afraid to draft him.
 
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