Jones vs. Weeden...let our debates commence

[hoops]

Fair enough. The only reason that I bothered was that I found your ctriticism of Weeden last night to be short sighted and off base, lacking a true vision of what was really going on. You don't see a top 32 guy in Weeden and I see an average armed, maybe mid first round talent in Barkley. Whatever, it doesn't really matter, we're all just spouting meaningless opinions anyway, for our own amusement. You're no big fan of my QB analysis and I'm no big fan of yours, there's no mystery or crime in that.

considering that outside of you being on this weeden soapbox this draft period i don't even recall ever reading your takes on any draft prospects in years prior its hard for me to analyze your draft credentials period...however i will say that your wondering if vontaze burflict can play olb in place of koa misi given his arizona st tape and how they use him and what his strengths are have me highly questioning your understanding of a 34 defense and evaluating position prospects fits period...

and also i know how you've been singing from the mountatin tops how awesome with awesome cause peter konz is as a prospect...just so you know the first person on here talking this kid up was me after the rose bowl game last year where i came on here and told everyone here that in grading the wisconsin oline in that game konz came away with the best grade over moffitt and gabe carimi...and that he was nfl ready even then...others can atest to this as well

so i don't need your respect...i've more than proven myself on here

 

[Lord Of Miami]

I've read jim1 for years on this site and on another Dolfan site...I've read him and Boomer go at each other for over like a year over the Tebow thing lol and that was fun as heck reading and so far jim1 and i were right about Tebow because our point was if you changed your game plan around to fit Tebow he'd have a decent chance in the NFL..............Denver did that, and it's helping them win games.....Also i'm only bringing up Boomer because all them threads were great to read.Like i thought Boomer stop posting so much because jim1 killed him at one point lol

jim1 is a nice dude, and he does have a clue what he's talking about.

Then you come back with "" so i don't need your respect...i've more than proven myself on here "" Come on man, your on a forum talking football, and i remember your the same guy who was watching a Tennessee college game a few years ago and i had to tell ya why a DT from Tennessee was having a bad game and you thought he was having a good game.............and you didn't come down from your stance until other people started to say the same things i was saying..............kind of like ck pointing out you really didn't understand what was happening in this other game.............Like 3 years, and you still seem as lost as ever.

So i don't think you have the respect around here you think you do, to me your a UTube draftnik and that's it.

Their are some other OG draftnik's that have been talking to jim1 years before you started posting here as well....so YOUR the new guy not him.

 

[jim1]

considering that outside of you being on this weeden soapbox this draft period i don't even recall ever reading your takes on any draft prospects in years prior its hard for me to analyze your draft credentials period...however i will say that your wondering if vontaze burflict can play olb in place of koa misi given his arizona st tape and how they use him and what his strengths are have me highly questioning your understanding of a 34 defense and evaluating position prospects fits period...

and also i know how you've been singing from the mountatin tops how awesome with awesome cause peter konz is as a prospect...just so you know the first person on here talking this kid up was me after the rose bowl game last year where i came on here and told everyone here that in grading the wisconsin oline in that game konz came away with the best grade over moffitt and gabe carimi...and that he was nfl ready even then...others can atest to this as well

so i don't need your respect...i've more than proven myself on here

Really? Then maybe you should refer to these topics, among others:

1. Jake Long, specifically as a LT and as a justifiable #1 overall pick, as opposed to Chris Long and Vernon Gholston

2. Percy Harvin

3. Tim Tebow

4. Christian Ponder

As to Burfict, I have seen a bit and read a bit- I only know so much about him, but I have heard very good things, I've also read that he's something of a problem child. I don't remember that comment referred to by you, nor do I know how fast he is, which obviously would factor in to any OLB discussion- I woudl like to see that quote- as I said, no recollection, not that I have a problem with it. I was curious at one point as to Karlos Dansby playing OLB in certain situations as well- is that ok with you?

You're apparently pissed that I called you on your misread of the last Weeden game- unbased and unwarranted criticism- did you even watch the game? Your commentary made little sense. As to any other opinions you have- Konz, Carimi, etc.- I have no clue as to who you are, nor do I really care. I've been off of this site for years until a couple of months ago- my affinity for Konz, Weeden, and anyone else is of my own doing. All of your opinions are new to me. IF you have criticism of Weeden and don't want to be called on it, at least make it good criticism. Your last batch wasn't. And if you have a problem with my one central criticism of Barkley- he doesn't have the arm strength that I would like to see in a top pick- grab yourself a quarter and call someone who cares.

 

[jim1]

I've read jim1 for years on this site and on another Dolfan site...I've read him and Boomer go at each other for over like a year over the Tebow thing lol and that was fun as heck reading and so far jim1 and i were right about Tebow because our point was if you changed your game plan around to fit Tebow he'd have a decent chance in the NFL..............Denver did that, and it's helping them win games.....Also i'm only bringing up Boomer because all them threads were great to read.Like i thought Boomer stop posting so much because jim1 killed him at one point lol

jim1 is a nice dude, and he does have a clue what he's talking about.

Then you come back with "" so i don't need your respect...i've more than proven myself on here "" Come on man, your on a forum talking football, and i remember your the same guy who was watching a Tennessee college game a few years ago and i had to tell ya why a DT from Tennessee was having a bad game and you thought he was having a good game.............and you didn't come down from your stance until other people started to say the same things i was saying..............kind of like ck pointing out you really didn't understand what was happening in this other game.............Like 3 years, and you still seem as lost as ever.

So i don't think you have the respect around here you think you do, to me your a UTube draftnik and that's it.

Their are some other OG draftnik's that have been talking to jim1 years before you started posting here as well....so YOUR the new guy not him.

Hi Lord of Miami,

Thank you, and good to hear from you, its been a while. I've very much enjoyed reading your posts over the years, I always respect your opinion and I've enjoyed your commentary.

Tebow- what a strange case, a one-off. In his own category. One thing that threw me off- for all the criticism of his arm, I swore then and I do now that I saw him make the necessary throws in college to succeed in the NFL. But his throwing in the NFL- good God, some of it has been awful. That really confused me. But sure enough, as predicted, he just keeps on winning. He did make some nice throws yesterday against the Vikings, including a beautuiful throw to D Thomas late in the 4th that should have been caught for a game winning TD, tremendous throw. But he's a one-off as I said, a unique situation as a prospect and as a pro QB.

Anyway, stay well, and I look forward to your posts in the future.

Jim

ps Where is Boomer? I don't always agree with him, but he is almost always a good read, provides very good analysis.

 

[Generic Name]

this is great analysis. I've seen a number of OU games and don't think Jones belongs in the top 10 in this draft.

I think Miami will be picking in the top 10-12 but think the best value for them will be a pass rusher or other defender. Love the talent Justin Blackmon has and think he can be a #1 but think he'll be a top 3-5 pick.

 

[hoops]

Really? Then maybe you should refer to these topics, among others:

1. Jake Long, specifically as a LT and as a justifiable #1 overall pick, as opposed to Chris Long and Vernon Gholston

2. Percy Harvin

3. Tim Tebow

4. Christian Ponder

As to Burfict, I have seen a bit and read a bit- I only know so much about him, but I have heard very good things, I've also read that he's something of a problem child. I don't remember that comment referred to by you, nor do I know how fast he is, which obviously would factor in to any OLB discussion- I woudl like to see that quote- as I said, no recollection, not that I have a problem with it. I was curious at one point as to Karlos Dansby playing OLB in certain situations as well- is that ok with you?

You're apparently pissed that I called you on your misread of the last Weeden game- unbased and unwarranted criticism- did you even watch the game? Your commentary made little sense. As to any other opinions you have- Konz, Carimi, etc.- I have no clue as to who you are, nor do I really care. I've been off of this site for years until a couple of months ago- my affinity for Konz, Weeden, and anyone else is of my own doing. All of your opinions are new to me. IF you have criticism of Weeden and don't want to be called on it, at least make it good criticism. Your last batch wasn't. And if you have a problem with my one central criticism of Barkley- he doesn't have the arm strength that I would like to see in a top pick- grab yourself a quarter and call someone who cares.

nah...this comes down to you and a few others having a horse in this race and trying to make weedens play against iowa st and oklahoma into something it was not...outside of a few nfl throws where mostly arm strength was on display in those 2 games weeden was pretty damn average...i'm not hating on the kid i'm just not trying to make him into something he was not...and i'll tell all you guys til the cows come home that his age is gonna majorly impact his draft slot...

as for that "list" you produced...that's chump change...lmao

 

[ChambersWI]

let me say this in favor of Landry Jones, he had some bad plays, but rewatching a couple games, he made some DAMN good throws that his WRs dropped.

Still my 4th choice for QB behind Luck, Barkley, and RG3 but he's a good prospect

 

[ckparrothead]

There's very little "average" about the way Brandon Weeden plays the game. To borrow a word that slimm used, he is "comfortably" in the same grouping as Andrew Luck and Matt Barkley.

 

[hoops]

There's very little "average" about the way Brandon Weeden plays the game. To borrow a word that slimm used, he is "comfortably" in the same grouping as Andrew Luck and Matt Barkley.

i didn't say that weeden is an average player...he's a high level nfl talent no doubt...i said he played pretty average overall in those two games...there's a difference...its fair to say he made throws in both those games other qbs probably can't make with the same trajectory etc but its also fair to say he left plays on the field as well...at least for what i saw i took it that way...

 

[ckparrothead]

I don't think he played "average" in either game. He played well but not great in the Oklahoma game. He could have thrown for gaudy looking touchdown numbers but the fact of the matter is the Sooners defense kept worrying about the pass even near the goal line and it was easier to run the ball in. He makes a lot of those run calls, by the way. If they threw the ball near the goal line instead of running it, all the sudden he has an awesome day because he's got touchdowns. But he's the one operating that offense, and so the offense having a great day is a reflection on him.

As for the Iowa State game, I spent about 3 hours closely examining that game and I found a lot of faults. But I also found a ton of reads and throws that were way, way, way above average. And only one of those bad plays had anything to do with Weeden losing accuracy when forced to move his feet.

 

[datruth55]

I don't think he played "average" in either game. He played well but not great in the Oklahoma game. He could have thrown for gaudy looking touchdown numbers but the fact of the matter is the Sooners defense kept worrying about the pass even near the goal line and it was easier to run the ball in. He makes a lot of those run calls, by the way. If they threw the ball near the goal line instead of running it, all the sudden he has an awesome day because he's got touchdowns. But he's the one operating that offense, and so the offense having a great day is a reflection on him.

As for the Iowa State game, I spent about 3 hours closely examining that game and I found a lot of faults. But I also found a ton of reads and throws that were way, way, way above average. And only one of those bad plays had anything to do with Weeden losing accuracy when forced to move his feet.

Alright CK, given that Matt Moore is in all likelihood coming back next year to be the starter and Miami will, in all likelihood, be picking a QB to groom behind Moore...in your opinion would it make sense to draft a QB who is older than Matt Moore right now? Moore is 27, Weeden 28...Moore will be 28 in August Weeden 29 in October.

It would just seem to me that Weeden's age would preclude us from drafting him with Moore here.

 

[ckparrothead]

Alright CK, given that Matt Moore is in all likelihood coming back next year to be the starter and Miami will, in all likelihood, be picking a QB to groom behind Moore...in your opinion would it make sense to draft a QB who is older than Matt Moore right now? Moore is 27, Weeden 28...Moore will be 28 in August Weeden 29 in October.

It would just seem to me that Weeden's age would preclude us from drafting him with Moore here.

Never let extraneous non-football factors get in the way of football evaluation, because in the end it's all about getting the best football player onto the field.

What you're describing is an extraneous non-football factor. Who cares how old Weeden is in relation to how old Moore is? The better player will play, and based on my evaluations of Weeden, I'm pretty sure he is the better player.

Football isn't a paint-by-numbers picture. It's not a place setting at a $2,000 a plate dinner, where you whip out the ruler and make sure the napkin is so many inches from the wine glass and at such a degree angle to the dinner fork, etc. You don't forego talent in order to make sure you've got two 21 to 25 year olds and a 28 to 30 year old on the roster at a position at any given time. If that's what you think is going to win your football games, I say good luck with that.

There's only one question you should be asking yourself when it comes to whether or not to add Brandon Weeden. That question is, is he the best quarterback I can realistically get? If you can legitimately get hold of Andrew Luck or Matt Barkley, then the answer to that question is no. If you believed Matt Moore to be a better football player then the answer would also be no, because you would already have the best quarterback that you can realistically get.

But I think Brandon Weeden is better than Matt Moore all day, every day, probably even better than him as early as 2012. So who gives a flying sh-t how the ages match up?

 

[Gonzo]

Alright CK, given that Matt Moore is in all likelihood coming back next year to be the starter and Miami will, in all likelihood, be picking a QB to groom behind Moore...in your opinion would it make sense to draft a QB who is older than Matt Moore right now? Moore is 27, Weeden 28...Moore will be 28 in August Weeden 29 in October.

It would just seem to me that Weeden's age would preclude us from drafting him with Moore here.

QB's don't require as much (if any) grooming in the modern NFL. Any QB that is drafted will be competing with Moore immediately; assuming we have a competent head coach that is (unlike now).

 

[Pinkboy]

Alright CK, given that Matt Moore is in all likelihood coming back next year to be the starter and Miami will, in all likelihood, be picking a QB to groom behind Moore...in your opinion would it make sense to draft a QB who is older than Matt Moore right now? Moore is 27, Weeden 28...Moore will be 28 in August Weeden 29 in October.

It would just seem to me that Weeden's age would preclude us from drafting him with Moore here.

What in the world ?! what does that have to do with anything ?


Edit - I see CK pretty much summed it up.

 

[jim1]

What in the world ?! what does that have to do with anything ?


Edit - I see CK pretty much summed it up.

Maybe a little reminiscent of the Craig Morton/Roger Staubach situation in Dallas. Talent trumps all, and 2 good QBs are better than 1. One proves himself, the other usually leaves town. In Morton's case, hello Denver. He was the 5th overall pick in the draft in 1965- doesn't matter, Stauback was better.

I like how Moore is progressing, but as to Weeden, in terms of talent, age and the value that he would bring as a 2nd rd pick, or even later in the 1st rd- bring it on. My best guess is that the Dolphins would, as long as Moore keeps playing well the remainder of the year, risk passing on a QB in the 1st (for the Barkley fans, I'm assuming that he won't be available) and go for Weeden in the 2nd rd. Most of you are sweating Barkley if we pick at say #8- I'm already sweating Weeden possibly not being available to us by our 2nd rd pick. All it takes is one team liking him as much as I do- we'll see what happens come draft day.