JP Losman over Vernon Carey??? ...maybe?

[Justasportsfan]

That remains to be seen, if Feely isn't the upgrade Rick hopes he is we may yet look back and regret not drafting Losman after this season. We may be right back where we were looking for a quarterback only next year we may not get a shot at a QB of this caliber. Losman is ****y, if you want to call that a attitude problem for a quarterback thats your opinion, I call it a required trait for the biggest job on the field that is in the spotlight on every offensive play.

I agree that it remains to be seen. So far feely doesn;t look like he's beating Fiedler at camp is he? Give him time? Sure, He may surpass Fiedler playing the same D's at camp. Fiedler however does know the AFCE more than Feely. Like I said before, I hope Feely starts against the bills D. I will predict he will end up looking like a deer caught staring at a headlight.

It's common knowledge that Feely was not Spielman's first choice. Brunnel was. Although Spielman see's a lot of potential in feely, potential does not automatically translate into immediate success which is evident at camp. Feely would have to be way better than Fiedler when season starts to get the job. If he is at par with Fiedler, like I said, Fielder knows the AFCE and knows what it's like to play with this team against other opposition unlike Feely.

Spielman (or Wanny?) "we need to get better at the qb position" If feely isn't better than Fiedler, you're only hope is that Trestman makes Fiedler better than what he was.

Losman is ****y, if you want to call that a attitude problem for a quarterback thats your opinion, I call it a required trait for the biggest job on the field that is in the spotlight on every offensive play.[/i]

You won't hear any argument from me about that. Marino and Kelly were ****y SOB's. Although I won't dare say Losman will be as successful as both Kelly and Dan, I'm saying it isn't a trait that automatically translates into a bust like some posters here think will be his downfall.

 

[DrAstroZoom]

So far feely doesn;t look like he's beating Fiedler at camp is he?

Actually, it looks like they're running pretty evenly, which suggests that once Feeley fully grapsps the offense, he'll outperform Fiedler.

Feely would have to be way better than Fiedler when season starts to get the job.

If Feeley has any advantage over Fiedler at the end of TC, no matter how subtle, he gets the starting job. The FO has too much riding on it.[/QUOTE]

Marino and Kelly were ****y SOB's. Although I won't dare say Losman will be as successful as both Kelly and Dan, I'm saying it isn't a trait that automatically translates into a bust like some posters here think will be his downfall.

The criticism on losman isn't personal ****iness so much as "football ****iness," i.e., trusting too much in his natural ability at the expense of not playing within an offensive system. That CAN translate into underachievemeny, if not outright busthood.

 

[Justasportsfan]

The criticism on losman isn't personal ****iness so much as "football ****iness," i.e., trusting too much in his natural ability at the expense of not playing within an offensive system. That CAN translate into underachievemeny, if not outright busthood.

Not platying within an offensive system? Where did that come from. Did you read the link I provided regarding his stint w/ Tulane? His coach as well has had nothing but great things to say about him?

he never blamed anyone on his team for a horrendous OL. Like TigerJ said, it depends on who you ask. All you've read so far are reports from media. Should we actually just ignore reports from those who've actually played with him or watched him at college?

I posted an article before where Rothleberger quoted implying he was the best in that qb class . That was after he was drafted though. Does it make a difference as to when they said what when all three (add Manning ) seem to be ****y?

Sorry, talent wise we'll wait and see. ****iness? There are two sides of a story and it seems like some finfans would rather believe the negative story because he is a bill.

 

[DrAstroZoom]

Not platying within an offensive system? Where did that come from. Did you read the link I provided regarding his stint w/ Tulane? His coach as well has had nothing but great things to say about him?

he never blamed anyone on his team for a horrendous OL. Like TigerJ said, it depends on who you ask. All you've read so far are reports from media. Should we actually just ignore reports from those who've actually played with him or watched him at college?

I posted an article before where Rothleberger quoted implying he was the best in that qb class . That was after he was drafted though. Does it make a difference as to when they said what when all three (add Manning ) seem to be ****y?

Sorry, talent wise we'll wait and see. ****iness? There are two sides of a story and it seems like some finfans would rather believe the negative story because he is a bill.

Ok ... let me try and clarify. I'm not running Losman down at all. I think he has a lot of natural talent. My point has been that he wasn't a good fit for the Dolphins where we could have picked him. I think he's a good pickup for the Bills. I think he was drafted a little early, but if there was in fact a lot of late round interets in him, I guess it's understandable.

Now, as to "football ****iness." What I'm talking about is very X-and-O specific. For example:

I'm back in the pocket ... my primary receiver is double covered, but he's 30 yards downfield, and if I can make the throw it will be a huge play ... heck, what am I saying? Of course I can make the throw. Screw the five-yard dump that's open ... I've got a golden arm ... I can make the throw ... uh-oh ...

One last thing ... of COURSE Losman's coach is going to say nice things about him.

 

[BlueFin]

Not platying within an offensive system? Where did that come from. Did you read the link I provided regarding his stint w/ Tulane? His coach as well has had nothing but great things to say about him?

he never blamed anyone on his team for a horrendous OL. Like TigerJ said, it depends on who you ask. All you've read so far are reports from media. Should we actually just ignore reports from those who've actually played with him or watched him at college?

I posted an article before where Rothleberger quoted implying he was the best in that qb class . That was after he was drafted though. Does it make a difference as to when they said what when all three (add Manning ) seem to be ****y?

Sorry, talent wise we'll wait and see. ****iness? There are two sides of a story and it seems like some finfans would rather believe the negative story because he is a bill.

Not this Dolphin fan, and its gonna make me sick if he indeed does translate that talent to the NFL level because his talent is considerable .

My personal philosophy is when you have a shot to draft a quarterback of that caliber and you don't possess one on your roster you have to draft him.

Unlike Wannstedt I do feel the Quarterback is the single most important position on the field, yes you need a team to win, but IMO you need a quarterback who is a playmaker, unless of course you have one of the top three defenses in NFL history like Dilfer had with the Ravens or Johnson had with Tampa recently.

 

[inFINSible]

Wow.......great response, thanks, so in your estimation we now draft just names not talent anymore?

The point which you ignored and did not answer was we have rarely had a shot at a quarterback of Losman's talent level, while we have had many O-lineman of quality available to draft.

Now, Carey may end up being very good and Losman could bust......and then our choice will obviously look good in the long run, but if Losman does translate his talent to the NFL and Carey busts or even is just another Jamie Nails who can't control his weight we made a mistake.

The reason we were desperate for an O-lineman was it was ignored for years under both Yimmie and Dave, but we also have lacked consistent quarterbacking under Dave, and IMO its harder to find talented quarterbacks than it is O-lineman.

No....see if you can follow along now, I'll go slow...Not everyone is as enamored with Losman as you seem to be. just because you think he is some special talent doesn't mean that he actually IS some special talent....you with me so far?....There will be more "Losmans" in future drafts.....Just like there were "Patrick Ramsey's" and "Chad Penningtons" available in past drafts...

Is this getting through?

 

[gottahavefootba]

Does anyone remember that QB we traded for from the 49ers? It was a couple years back... I can't think of his name right now.. he had a huge cannon for an arm, and tons of talent.... and, well, I guess that's all I remeber about him. I am sure he must be in the probowl every year for some other team.. he had all the talent.. why didn't we keep him? we are always so stupid with qb's..

 

[DrAstroZoom]

Does anyone remember that QB we traded for from the 49ers? It was a couple years back... I can't think of his name right now.. he had a huge cannon for an arm, and tons of talent.... and, well, I guess that's all I remeber about him. I am sure he must be in the probowl every year for some other team.. he had all the talent.. why didn't we keep him? we are always so stupid with qb's..

Ahhh yes ... Jim Drunkenmiller, master of the quick out ... to the bar! :evil:

 

[BlueFin]

No....see if you can follow along now, I'll go slow...Not everyone is as enamored with Losman as you seem to be. just because you think he is some special talent doesn't mean that he actually IS some special talent....you with me so far?....There will be more "Losmans" in future drafts.....Just like there were "Patrick Ramsey's" and "Chad Penningtons" available in past drafts...

Is this getting through?

Ok, let me weigh that.........an NFL Franchise led by one of the most respected GM's in the league thought enough of him to draft him first round, not only draft him first round but trade a 1st and 2nd so they could draft him...........I think I'm on safe ground.

And, not Pennington or Ramsey or most any other QB's you can name have the combination of Speed, mobility and arm this kid has, so he is in a special class from a pure talent standpoint. Doesn't mean hes a lock, no one is, but as I said you can't name a QB with his pure raw physical talent we've had a shot at...........:shakeno:

 

[DrAstroZoom]

Ok, let me weigh that.........an NFL Franchise led by one of the most respected GM's in the league thought enough of him to draft him first round, not only draft him first round but trade a 1st and 2nd so they could draft him...........I think I'm on safe ground.

And, not Pennington or Ramsey or most any other QB's you can name have the combination of Speed, mobility and arm this kid has, so he is in a special class from a pure talent standpoint. Doesn't mean hes a lock, no one is, but as I said you can't name a QB with his pure raw physical talent we've had a shot at...........:shakeno:

I'm done. Let's just leave it at "we'll see."

 

[MDFINFAN]

Before you criticize me or bash anything im about to say... Id like to say that i think our traide for AJ Feeley works out great and i hope he plays well and does great for us.

Okay, i was thinking about our QB situation. Feeley is supposedly getting better but he obviously isnt doing as great as we had hoped, we need him to be better then Feidler which he isnt at this point.... But there is still much time. But i was thinking, what if AJ is a bust and we wasted a second round pick on a third round qb who only started 4 nfl games???

Now in the draft JP Losman was still available at the 19th pick i was thinking what if we drafted him instead of Vernon Carey and then signed a veteran to start for us while Losman developed under that veteran. We could have snagged Kerry Collins who has been to a Super Bowl, Kurt Warner who has won a super bowl and 2 mvps, there was mark brunell, jon kitna could have been talked into being traded possibly, there were a lot of options...

Your probably saying, "well we needed an o-line!" Yeah your right. And we solved that through Free Agency not to mention there are still FA's being cut and signed now. We also could have drafted an o-linemen with our next pick. Oh and theres talk that Carey might not even start!


Just thought id throw some of those thoughts out there. What do you think?

This is more 20/20 hindsight stuff, like we knew Collins would be available...??? We've done the right thing with the limited before cut knowledge we had. It will be good either way if AJ takes over or if Jay starts. I'm more concern with the OL than QB at this point. The phins went for OL first which where it starts for our O, and they did the right thing. It will eventually paid big dividends for us.

 

[Justasportsfan]

Ok, let me weigh that.........an NFL Franchise led by one of the most respected GM's in the league thought enough of him to draft him first round, not only draft him first round but trade a 1st and 2nd so they could draft him...........I think I'm on safe ground.

Be careful, some people here think Donahoe is an idiot.

It can be argued that from the bills point of view Losman is a 1st rd. pick based on their need and situation just like Carey was worth giving up a 4th pick just to move 1 step up as far as Spielman is concererned. Poole is an example. While draft experts had him being taken higher than where the fins drafted him, teams didn't feel the need for him because of other pressing needs.

 

[BlueFin]

Be careful, some people here think Donahoe is an idiot.

It can be argued that from the bills point of view Losman is a 1st rd. pick based on their need and situation just like Carey was worth giving up a 4th pick just to move 1 step up as far as Spielman is concererned. Poole is an example. While draft experts had him being taken higher than where the fins drafted him, teams didn't feel the need for him because of other pressing needs.

I think Donahoes track record in Pittsburgh speaks for itself, as far as Buffalo its a little early in the game after only two drafts to judge whats hes done yet.

As far as Carey, we panicked on that one and gave up what we didn't have to give up, many here will argue that but its pretty clear Minnesota plays better poker than Rick does.

 

[Justasportsfan]

I think Donahoes track record in Pittsburgh speaks for itself, as far as Buffalo its a little early in the game after only two drafts to judge whats hes done yet.

As far as Carey, we panicked on that one and gave up what we didn't have to give up, many here will argue that but its pretty clear Minnesota plays better poker than Rick does.

Clements, Jennings, Shobel, Mike Williams (jury's out on that) , Henry ,Mcgahee (jury out too), he's ahd a good draft add to fact he fixed a teams cap problems that was one of the worst in the league when he took over.

FA's Spikes, Posey,Fletcher, Drew(could be TD's second mistake if Mularkey can't fix him), Milloy, Vincent (jury out) and still have tons of cap room. There's more cap space next yeasr as well.


He's done a great job player wise. His biggest mistake outweighed the good....Greg Williams who then hired Gilbride. Hopefully, he made the right call with Mularkey.

 

[DrAstroZoom]

Be careful, some people here think Donahoe is an idiot.

It can be argued that from the bills point of view Losman is a 1st rd. pick based on their need and situation just like Carey was worth giving up a 4th pick just to move 1 step up as far as Spielman is concererned. Poole is an example. While draft experts had him being taken higher than where the fins drafted him, teams didn't feel the need for him because of other pressing needs.

That seems to be a pretty balanced opinion.

As far as Carey, we panicked on that one and gave up what we didn't have to give up, many here will argue that but its pretty clear Minnesota plays better poker than Rick does.

There is absolutely NO way you can prove this. I understand you have a general disgust for all things front office right now, but come on ...