Knowing what you knownow, Matt Ryan or Jake Long? | Page 12 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Knowing what you knownow, Matt Ryan or Jake Long?

Duper may not have been established but he did make the Pro Bowl in Dan's rookie season with 51 receptios for 10 tds.

How did he lok the year before, could Marino been the reason he looked so good?

Nat Moore was still a clutch receiver at 32.
He was on a downslide, still good, but nowhere as good as he used to be.

Clayton was a punt returner.
Marino's fav target was not used the way he should have that year.



Cefalo only played one game. (His injury opened the door for Duper.)
Only talking about his skills, not what happened that year.


Harris played injured most of the year.

He was inconsistant, 1 game he looked good, not the next.

Tony Nathan led the team in receptions with 52.

There was the problem, when your top receiver was a RB



Listen, it seems a few here love Ryan so much, they have awarded him the crown, and no matter what I or anybody else might say, Ryan is awesome, ad the next Marino, I disagree, but that is fine.

Like Vaark said, nobody is denying that Ryan had a great season for a rookie, it was amazing, but can't we just wait til 09 before anointing him the next big thing, the next Marino, and a better choice then Long.
Duper was a rookie the year before (only played in two games) who got himself in Shula's doghouse after he pulled a hamstring in a race against Paul Lankford. Duper and Marino was a great matched because they loved to attack defenses.

Moore was on the downside of his career at 32? That statement requires a DUH!!! Moore was a great compliment to the Mark Brothers and kept them from being double teammed on 3rd downs.

Shula rarely started a rookie wide receiver and Clayton, like Moore before him and McDuffie after him, greatest contributions was going to come on special teams.

Tony Nathan leading the team in receptions was the problem? Is that why the 1985 Dolphins only won 12 games and the division with the #4 overall offense that year because Nathan led them in receptions?

I'm not sure why you feel the need to disparage the Dolphins receivers in order to put Marino on a higher pedestal than which he already stands upon but...
 
Knowing what we know now, u definitely take Jake Long, because Matt Ryan would not have seen the field with Chad Pennington being released. Now he may have seen the field after Chad got laid out due to the lack of a quality LT (or RT as Carey would have been switched), but Ryan would have been Henne'd IMO, and that is being overlooked. Henne looked pretty damn good against Arizona, and that Arizona defense was not in prevent, they were sending 4 guys.

I dunno, we will see . . . yea the better pick was Ryan in general . . . but for us, I am certain that Jake Long was the better pick and him and Henne will make us forget about Ryan, even if he is a great QB.

I will say this, I am confident we were not a playoff team with Ryan last season . . . we were with Jake Long.

This. :up:
 
Knowing what we know now, u definitely take Jake Long, because Matt Ryan would not have seen the field with Chad Pennington being released. Now he may have seen the field after Chad got laid out due to the lack of a quality LT (or RT as Carey would have been switched), but Ryan would have been Henne'd IMO, and that is being overlooked. Henne looked pretty damn good against Arizona, and that Arizona defense was not in prevent, they were sending 4 guys.

I dunno, we will see . . . yea the better pick was Ryan in general . . . but for us, I am certain that Jake Long was the better pick and him and Henne will make us forget about Ryan, even if he is a great QB.

I will say this, I am confident we were not a playoff team with Ryan last season . . . we were with Jake Long.
Not only did the Cardinals not play a prevent defense but there were times went they sent more including the corners and/or safeties.
 
Any web site but this one the response would be 95% in favor of Ryan.

Of course on here its 95% Long...who would of thought that.

Going by what we know now you have to pick Ryan. Not a question.

Wow, you know this for sure do you, nice? :rolleyes2:
 
that will all depend on how chad henne works out. its the same argument for ginn and beck or quinn and that guy from usc, having a hard time remembering his name. it looks like now we should have taken quinn, but we still dont know that. i really think parcells and co never really gave beck a chance. I think he could be a good qb someday.
 
I've actually posed this question on two NFL forums. It's about a 60-40 split in favor of Long, surprisingly.

It really would not be that big a surprise either way, as long as it was close. It's amazing how many put so little importance on a Franchise
L-Tackle. :crazy:
 
Duper was a rookie the year before (only played in two games) who got himself in Shula's doghouse after he pulled a hamstring in a race against Paul Lankford. Duper and Marino was a great matched because they loved to attack defenses.

That is all I am saying, Marino helped Duper be the Receiver he became, any other QB, he might not have been as dangerous. Also the general rule is that a receiver needs 3 years to reach his potential, Duper hardly played in year one, so going into year two, nobody could expect much from him.

Moore was on the downside of his career at 32? That statement requires a DUH!!! Moore was a great compliment to the Mark Brothers and kept them from being double teammed on 3rd downs.

Then if you already knew that, why mention him as a weapon for Marino, besides, we are talking about 83, Clayton was not even on anyones mind in 83, so in anything he was a compliment to Duper.

1980- 47 receptions
1981- 26 receptions
1982- 8 receptions
1983- 39 receptions

So yes he was on a downslide, and thanks to Marino his stats went up a bit. Marino made most of this players look better, and proved it a year later, now it's Ryan's turn to prove himself to be as good.


Shula rarely started a rookie wide receiver and Clayton, like Moore before him and McDuffie after him, greatest contributions was going to come on special teams.

So you admit Marino's best receiver was not used in his 1st year, unlike Ryan who did have his best receiver there to help him.


Tony Nathan leading the team in receptions was the problem? Is that why the 1985 Dolphins only won 12 games and the division with the #4 overall offense that year because Nathan led them in receptions?

You don't get the point, the point is, Miami had no real receiver as a threat, receptions that go to the RB normally go far less of an average then if it's your top receiver. He averaged 8.9 by the way....there is a big difference between 83 where he led with 52 receptions, and 85 where he had 72 receptions, but again only 9.0, thank goodness that year Clayton had 70 receptions w/ a 14.2 yards a catch.

I'm not sure why you feel the need to disparage the Dolphins receivers in order to put Marino on a higher pedestal than which he already stands upon but...

All I said was that in 83 Marino did not yet have the receiving threat that Ryan had, Clayton hardly played, Duper was just learning his position, Moore was not the same receiver. If anything I don't get why you would belittle what Marino did in his 1st year, by having no problem seeing him compared with a QB like Ryan, that had a good year, but nowhere as amazing as Marino.


Marino played less games in 83 against tougher competition then Ryan in 08, yet he had more TDs, less INTs, and a higher QB rating... obviously. If not that he at that time did not have a true experienced #1 Receiver, he might have also had as many if not more passing yards.


Clayton to me was my favorite Receiver and best I ever saw, and even though I also was able to see Warfield play, I have better memories of Clayton, Duper was nothing less then awesome with his great hands, and speed, and as for Moore, through the let 70s and early 80s, nobody on the Dolphins offense was as athletic and exciting as him...loved our receiver, but problem was Marino got there at a very tough time.
 
Jake Long in the Pro Bowl, rookie year and all, seemed like a boss amongst kids

TICOPHIN: i think you need to sit down and REALLY watch that pro bowl game again.

now first off, i think we will know much more after this season. i am of the ones [including MOST nfl gm's and personel guys] that
you NEVER pass up a franchise type qb in the draft unless you already have 2 on the roster [montana/young, etc...]. i would have taken matt ryan because i believe in that philosophy and we needed a qb in the WORST way.

i liked jake long and i wasnt bawling my eyes out over the pic, but i would have taken the qb.

jake long was NOT anyones unanimous pro bowl choice. he got there because others couldnt be there. and from what i remember, he didnt play LEFT tackle in that pro bowl game one
time. they had him at right tackle.

and he STRUGGLED....BIG TIME! he was no "boss amongst boys". i was absolutely astonished at how bad he was in that game. guys were treating him as he wasnt even there! and thats
at the rt position!

i had some red lights going off towards the last of the season when he was still getting beat on that inside move which has plagued him since college. and frankly, he was not even close to the run blocker i thought he would be.

people see what they want to see most of the time. many fans [and i am not leveling this at you tico] hear or read something from a sports writer or beat guy or from there favorite board guru and run with it.

jake was supposed to be this mauler [and i beleived it from his college play] but i didnt see it at all in his nfl play. we suffered through one of the WORST running years in awhile last season. and you cant blame it all on the guards. if they were SO BAD and
they key to it all, they would be gone. and there not.

jake long is far, far from a polished, dominant nfl left tackle. matt ryan, at this point anyways is farther ahead at being a real deal nfl franchise qb than long is a franchise, dominant lt.

this year will be key.
 
I'd say Jake Long because it was like a combo of Jake and Chad over Matt Ryan.
 
I remember people saying that Ginn and Beck made it a better pick than Quinn

Good point, but I will say this . . . in Henne's one performance in real NFL action, he looked light years more composed and talented than Beck did in his full games. Granted he was surrounded by a better team, still Beck looked awful throughout.

I still maintain that we would be questioning Matt Ryan right now if he became a Dolphin, because Chad P would have still been the starter, Jake Long started from Day 1 and was a rock and was key in us making the playoffs, and was a pro bowler.

What more can u ask for?

If Henne ends up being a nobody, then over the long haul, obviously Ryan is the better choice, but if Henne becomes a great QB, then CLEARLY the Fins made the best choice. And even if they didn't, they still made a great choice in the end.

Sure would have sucked giving 35 or 40 million guaranteed to a guy who wouldn't have seen the field last year and maybe not this year either if we drafted him.
 
I remember people saying that Ginn and Beck made it a better pick than Quinn

I was one of them, and in that situation, clearly if Quinn ended up being a stud, that was a bad draft.

Ginn made an impact from day 1, and Beck fizzled out . . . but so far its starting to look like we made the right choice between those 2 guys.
 
Good point, but I will say this . . . in Henne's one performance in real NFL action, he looked light years more composed and talented than Beck did in his full games. Granted he was surrounded by a better team, still Beck looked awful throughout.

I still maintain that we would be questioning Matt Ryan right now if he became a Dolphin, because Chad P would have still been the starter, Jake Long started from Day 1 and was a rock and was key in us making the playoffs, and was a pro bowler.

What more can u ask for?

If Henne ends up being a nobody, then over the long haul, obviously Ryan is the better choice, but if Henne becomes a great QB, then CLEARLY the Fins made the best choice. And even if they didn't, they still made a great choice in the end.

Sure would have sucked giving 35 or 40 million guaranteed to a guy who wouldn't have seen the field last year and maybe not this year either if we drafted him.


Well we cant guarantee what would have happened. Matt Ryan looked great in week one of preseason 9 of 15 1 td and 113 yards so maybe he would have been seriously considered to be the starting qb for us.

Ryan excelled out of the box, I think Both Ryan and Long will have great careers but being QB is a more important position
 
Back
Top Bottom