LeBron James...PROOF that Loyalty DOESN'T MATTER... | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

LeBron James...PROOF that Loyalty DOESN'T MATTER...

JCane said:
WHY?? They're such a good team though according to all of you! LeBron couldn't carry them to the promised land so obviously the rest of those guys had a lot to do with the best record in the league right?

:lol:

You guys make up those minds of yours.
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They were a good team only because of Lebron. Without him they will struggle this year. Lebron was the Cavs so they will be bad.
 
The way I see it, CLE may have tried to bring "talent" in to supposedly help LBJ. If you look back they brought in Moe Williams, West, Jamison, and Varejao. However, these moves didn't pan out how the front office envisioned. Was it sole decisions made by the front office or did James have a part in who to bring me. If it's just front office they are most to blame. Those moves and deals they gave out were horrendous, $55-60 million to Varejao?! That is stupid. Those types of deals might have forced LBJ out because they were only about6-8 million dollars under the cap without resigning James, so obviously they couldn't have brought in true talent. Would we be even here if Dan Gilbert listened to LBJ and those reports of trading for Stoudemire and not Jamison? I don't think he would have left. He did what was right for him. For god sakes he has averaged about 28-29 ppg for his career, he carried his team and city.
 
Can we win a SB said:
The way I see it, CLE may have tried to bring "talent" in to supposedly help LBJ. If you look back they brought in Moe Williams, West, Jamison, and Varejao. However, these moves didn't pan out how the front office envisioned. Was it sole decisions made by the front office or did James have a part in who to bring me. If it's just front office they are most to blame. Those moves and deals they gave out were horrendous, $55-60 million to Varejao?! That is stupid. Those types of deals might have forced LBJ out because they were only about6-8 million dollars under the cap without resigning James, so obviously they couldn't have brought in true talent. Would we be even here if Dan Gilbert listened to LBJ and those reports of trading for Stoudemire and not Jamison? I don't think he would have left. He did what was right for him. For god sakes he has averaged about 28-29 ppg for his career, he carried his team and city.
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It's like I said, Cleveland is a BAD sports town and it's not an attractive place for millionaires to live. If I hand you a million dollars, start making a list of cities you're going to buy a home in and rank them and let me know where Cleveland falls. Mo Williams, Delonte West, Antwan Jamison, etc., you gotta consider the number of guys who wanted to come to Cleveland and my guess is that the list is very short. Even if Cleveland trades for Amar'e instead of Jamison, Amar'e still probably leaves Cleveland for New York. He goes to a major market with a former coach.
 
Just gonna leave this here so that we can see what LeBron was working with in Cleveland.

Zero first team All-Rookie Selections
Two All-Star game appearances (Mo Williams, Zydrunas llgauskas)
Zero All-NBA first team selection
Zero All-NBA second team selections
Zero All-Defensive first team selections
One All-Defensive second team selection (Anderson Vareajo)
Zero MVP Awards

And here's what Magic got to work with.

Two first team All-Rookie selections (Byron Scott, James Worthy)
11 All-Star appearances (Kareem Abdul-Jabbar seven times, Norm Nixon twice, Worthy, Jamaal Wilkes)
Four All-NBA first team selections (Abdul-Jabbar)
Two All-NBA second team selections (Abdul-Jabbar)
Five All-Defensive first team selections (Michael Cooper three times, Abdul-Jabbar twice)
Four All-Defensive second team selections (Cooper three times, Abdul-Jabbar once)
One MVP Award (Abdul-Jabbar)
In addition, Abdul-Jabbar, Worthy, Wilkes, Nixon, and Cooper all got votes for MVP at one point in time or the other during Magic's first seven years, and Cooper won defensive player of the year in Johnson's eighth year.
 
JCane said:
Just gonna leave this here so that we can see what LeBron was working with in Cleveland.

Zero first team All-Rookie Selections
Two All-Star game appearances (Mo Williams, Zydrunas llgauskas)
Zero All-NBA first team selection
Zero All-NBA second team selections
Zero All-Defensive first team selections
One All-Defensive second team selection (Anderson Vareajo)
Zero MVP Awards

And here's what Magic got to work with.

Two first team All-Rookie selections (Byron Scott, James Worthy)
11 All-Star appearances (Kareem Abdul-Jabbar seven times, Norm Nixon twice, Worthy, Jamaal Wilkes)
Four All-NBA first team selections (Abdul-Jabbar)
Two All-NBA second team selections (Abdul-Jabbar)
Five All-Defensive first team selections (Michael Cooper three times, Abdul-Jabbar twice)
Four All-Defensive second team selections (Cooper three times, Abdul-Jabbar once)
One MVP Award (Abdul-Jabbar)
In addition, Abdul-Jabbar, Worthy, Wilkes, Nixon, and Cooper all got votes for MVP at one point in time or the other during Magic's first seven years, and Cooper won defensive player of the year in Johnson's eighth year.
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Antawn Jamison has made multiple AS games and obviously Shaq is a future HOFer.

Ilgauskas was a 1st team all rookie selection

Moon was 2nd team all rookie

Anthony Parker is 4th in active 3P shooting %

Varejao was 2nd team all defense once

This was just this year's team.




Who is comparing this Cle team to what magic had? and back then there were legitimately great teams, where have those teams been in recent years? he lost to an aging Celtic team that has one championship and a year ago he lost to orlando who has never won a title. Again, we haven't seen truly great teams win championships for a long time now and he has had teams more than good enough to at the very least get to the Finals the last 2 years(and I think good enough to win it all if he played liked he was capable).
 
JCane said:
Just gonna leave this here so that we can see what LeBron was working with in Cleveland.

Zero first team All-Rookie Selections
Two All-Star game appearances (Mo Williams, Zydrunas llgauskas)
Zero All-NBA first team selection
Zero All-NBA second team selections
Zero All-Defensive first team selections
One All-Defensive second team selection (Anderson Vareajo)
Zero MVP Awards

And here's what Magic got to work with.

Two first team All-Rookie selections (Byron Scott, James Worthy)
11 All-Star appearances (Kareem Abdul-Jabbar seven times, Norm Nixon twice, Worthy, Jamaal Wilkes)
Four All-NBA first team selections (Abdul-Jabbar)
Two All-NBA second team selections (Abdul-Jabbar)
Five All-Defensive first team selections (Michael Cooper three times, Abdul-Jabbar twice)
Four All-Defensive second team selections (Cooper three times, Abdul-Jabbar once)
One MVP Award (Abdul-Jabbar)
In addition, Abdul-Jabbar, Worthy, Wilkes, Nixon, and Cooper all got votes for MVP at one point in time or the other during Magic's first seven years, and Cooper won defensive player of the year in Johnson's eighth year.
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Let's compare the talent of this past Cle team w/ the '91 Bulls:

'10 Cle besides Lebron:
20 AS game apps(even taking out Shaq they have 5 former AS game apps)
1 future HOFer
4 players on all rookie teams
2 former all D members
1 former NBA MVP


'91 Bulls besides Jordan:
2 All Star Games
2 Rookie team members
1 all D
 
Antwan Jamison didn't make any All-Star teams while playing with LeBron. Shaq didn't cement himself as a Hall of Famer last season either. Look at what he had to play with when he had it. You can't say Jamison used to be this so that's what he was last season just to make that pitiful argument look better lol.
 
JCane said:
Antwan Jamison didn't make any All-Star teams while playing with LeBron. Shaq didn't cement himself as a Hall of Famer last season either. Look at what he had to play with when he had it. You can't say Jamison used to be this so that's what he was last season just to make that pitiful argument look better lol.
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Shaq '10 was similar to David Robinson 1999 and Antawn is still a good player in the NBA- an AS caliber player.

and if you are only using AS apps when they played w/ Magic/Lebron then how does Kareem have 7? worthy have 1?

Magic helped make Norm Nixon an AS- did he ever make one w/o him? That's the point, the truly great players elevate the play of the players around them. lebron excuse makers use the excuse about the talent around him instead of lebron elevating that talent. The talent he had to work w/ was similar to Hou '94 or SA '99 but Hakeem and Duncan didn't need excuses.
 
Dude, that Houston team was loaded. They may not have been superstar players, but that was a very deep and physical team. That Houston team was very similar to the season's Boston team minus the big three. Boston and Houston both were very very deep on the bench and played some physical basketball.

These scrubs LeBron played with lol...he tried to elevate those bums. He elevated Mo Williams. Williams will be complete trash without LeBron. They aren't making the playoffs.

And I really don't know about the Magic/Worthy thing. I'm on my phone and copied that from an article on ESPN about Magic Johnson being a hypocrite.
 
JCane said:
Dude, that Houston team was loaded. They may not have been superstar players, but that was a very deep and physical team. That Houston team was very similar to the season's Boston team minus the big three. Boston and Houston both were very very deep on the bench and played some physical basketball.

These scrubs LeBron played with lol...he tried to elevate those bums. He elevated Mo Williams. Williams will be complete trash without LeBron. They aren't making the playoffs.

And I really don't know about the Magic/Worthy thing. I'm on my phone and copied that from an article on ESPN about Magic Johnson being a hypocrite.
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That Houston team was not loaded, they had Hakeem and a few decent role players.

Mo Williams w/ Lebron in '09: 17.8 PPG, 4.1 assists,
Mo w/o Lebron in '08: 17.2 PPG, 6.3 assists

yeah, he sure made Mo better:lol:



Magic had Kareem as a rookie but he didn't have Worthy until 1983 and he won 2 titles w/o Worthy. That team wasn't winning championships until he completed them. Obviously he had much more talent around him than Lebron so it's not really a good comparison.
 
Why don't you just wait till after this season? Its going to be pretty easy then to compare Cleveland's talent with that Jordan and Magic had. No offense nyunc, but your arguments have gotten pretty weak.....I sure hope you're just a fan and didn't actually attend unc because that would be rather depressing.

Jordan, Magic, and Lebron all left their teams in a lurch for various reasons, and all got to compete the next year without much to replace their superstar. I don't think I'm going out of a limb here predicting that this Cleveland team is going to do far worse without Lebron than those other squads did.
 
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